272 wired or wireless?

Because you'll get a more reliable connection and better SQ using a wired connection.

And just to beat WiFi, you don't need to use expensive Ethernet cables, a plain Cat 5e or Cat 6 cable will beat a wireless connection.

As you have an nDac and 555PS, a 272 is an odd option. Remember that a streamer works differently to a Mac and Dac system, and to get the best from it you would put your music on a nas. Might a Supernait 2 be easier? What's the thinking behind your idea?

Of course wired. There is no contest on this one for stability.

I'm also puzzled by your choice: nDAC + 555PS is a super DAC - you are up there in the NDS teritory (when it comes to DAC). So why change?

If you intend to start streaming properly I would recommend one of NAIM streamers. NDX would be an obvious addition (running in a digital out mode). ND5XS would come close second. Please bear in mind that the quality of digital transports does matter.

As to amplification - if you intend to stay with an integrated amp, SuperNait2 is a very capable partner for this combo - I run a setup like that myself. Given good speakers it is cabaple of stunning results.

My current thoughts are:

• Next upgrade in my setup should be a better amp
• I don't like the sound signature of the Supernait, too slow and dark, I like the pace of the XS.
• Either used 282 or new 272 come to my mind, probaly with a 200 or 200DR - once heard a 272 at my dealer and liked the presentation
• MacBook Air could be used as a server for a streamer as well, I assume?

I'm still at the beginning of my thoughts, so alternative recommendations are welcome.

SuperNait slow and dark??? That's a new one.

I suggest you do some long home-demos, as you seem to be meandering a bit.
I can recommend a 282 with a 200DR - no HiCap. Just two boxes (plus NAPSC). Of course 282 with a 250 will sound even better, but that will require some sort of a power supply - HiCap or SuperCap.

MacBook Air as a server??? No, no, no.... A cheap and stable NAS is all you need - QNAP, Synology.

I understand that my questions may seem strange, so let me give some more background: I use a multitude of digital sources on the MacBook Air: local files (Hi-Res, WAV, MP3...), Spotify, Podcasts, several online radio shows, SoundCloud, MixCloud, YouTube etc.

I´m overall very happy with the sound of my current setup, yet I wonder what else is possible and how much better it could be and if a 272 could be an improvement in my situation?

So my current idea is to listen to "streamable" content via 272-streamer and to other digital content via USB>Audiophilleo>SPDIF>272 - ideally everything with just the MacBook Air and no need to use a NAS on top of the MacBook.

Well - as you have already made your mind up so why do you ask then? 

The set up you are thinking of is unnecessarily complicated and based on sub-optimal solutions.

Just to be clear: using Naim streamers for internet radio and Tidal only is like buying a powerful BMW and never taking it out of a 1st gear.

Adam Zielinski posted

Just to be clear: using Naim streamers for internet radio and Tidal only is like buying a powerful BMW and never taking it out of a 1st gear.

+1 x 100, great analogy Adam.  iRadio & Tidal is OK but it really is mid-fi,  Sonos & SBT does that.  With a real NAS you will be able to get the best high res audio with 24bit & DSD albums,  thats what the 272 & the N-Series were designed for,  not mid-fi www streaming,  they are just add on's,  like BMW metallic paint  -  Get a Gear Box = NAS & be sure its all WIRED.

Given nDAC/555PS, still one finest, I would first upgrade XS to 282 or 252/250 level as well as speakers.

If you really need to go streaming right away and funds do not allow for NDX, go ND5 in front of nDAC/555PS. 272 would be a downgrade. 

Drop nDAC only to go to NDS.

Chag -

Adam Zielinski posted:

Well - as you have already made your mind up so why do you ask then? 

The set up you are thinking of is unnecessarily complicated and based on sub-optimal solutions.

Just to be clear: using Naim streamers for internet radio and Tidal only is like buying a powerful BMW and never taking it out of a 1st gear.

Well almost, although with Tidal it would be an unreliable BMW, but the analogy is a good one otherwise

Chag... posted:

Given nDAC/555PS, still one finest, I would first upgrade XS to 282 or 252/250 level as well as speakers.

If you really need to go streaming right away and funds do not allow for NDX, go ND5 in front of nDAC/555PS. 272 would be a downgrade. 

Drop nDAC only to go to NDS.

Chag -

Well I was not aware that 272 would be so much of a downgrade compared to the nDac, thanks for making this so clear.

Adam Zielinski posted:

Well - as you have already made your mind up so why do you ask then? 

Have not yet made up my mind, I would like to understand the options I have. As there is so much praise for the 272 I thought it was a "no-brainer" to buy one

p. posted:

Adam Zielinski posted:

Well - as you have already made your mind up so why do you ask then? 

Have not yet made up my mind, I would like to understand the options I have. As there is so much praise for the 272 I thought it was a "no-brainer" to buy one

Well - I did write in my original response that nDAC + 555PS is up there in the NDS teritory. HH wrote that N272 would be an odd choice.

N272 is a very convenient piece of kit, but it would be a downgrade on the digital to analogue conversion side for you.

My advice for now: find a very experienced NAIM dealer near you, before you make a costly mistake of buying gear purely on it's reviews.  Talk to the dealer, let him demo all sorts of combinations for you. And only then start planning changes and what sort of system you'd like to end up with.

Also think about how you want to listen to music, through what medium and from which source(s). If sound quality is not a priority then iRadio and low-res streaming from a variety of on-line sources are convenient ways to access a broad spectrum of music but the downside is the dubious quality that is inherent from these sources. If you really want to be able to appreciate high quality music reproduction then local streaming of hi-res files from a NAS/Server is your best option. Others will of course say good old vinyl can not be beaten here and who am I to argue with that. One exception I would mention is Tidal (the full fat version) through Naim streamers where I have noticed a significant improvement in stability and SQ over recent months with the promise of a Naim firmware update rumoured to further improve SQ.

The thing is that the route you decide to prioritise will dictate the kind of equipment and the appropriate quality of that equipment (black boxes in the case of Naim) that are best suited to the medium/sources you choose to get your music from.

So decide how you want to access music, how important sound quality is to you and use a good dealer to help you. A Naim dealer will also be able to demonstrate how stunning music can sound with the best set-ups, streaming hi-res files. It might just move you on from the lower resolution streaming sources you have mentioned earlier. But be warned, this does not come cheap and some of us have I know checked out what our superfluous organs might be worth on the black market to pay for such a fix. 

Oh, and by the way in answer to your original question you have three options for the best SQ and stability and they are wired, wired or…….OK I have made my point as have others.

As Loopyloo used to say to Little Ted and Andy Pandy, "…time for bed….". That Loopyloo was such a hussy!

Chag... posted:

Given nDAC/555PS, still one finest, I would first upgrade XS to 282 or 252/250 level as well as speakers.

If you really need to go streaming right away and funds do not allow for NDX, go ND5 in front of nDAC/555PS. 272 would be a downgrade. 

Drop nDAC only to go to NDS.

Sane advice from Chag. 

You could also consider a Qute in front of the nDAC/555PS, to take care of streaming duties.

Jan

Thanks all of you for your feedback. So I understand that serious streaming would involve a NAS and good ethernet cables, wireless not being an option.

I did not expect such strong opinions on swapping a nDac for a 272 and I agree that careful audition should be involved, will visit my dealer in the next time and see how things will develop. 

I don't know how easy it is to get a really good demonstration of the options in Hamburg, as this seems to be what is required. My comment that the 272 is an odd choice is nothing to do with its sound quality. It's because you currently use a computer source into a very good Dac, but really need to improve the amplifier. That's why I suggested the Supernait, but it seems you don't like that option. So that leads to adding a 282, Hicap and 250DR to get an amp up to the standard of the source. Now, that's expensive. 

If you don't want to go there, the 272 becomes a very sensible option, especially if you keep your 555PS, which you don't seem to mention very much. I have a 272, XPSDR and 250DR is extraordinarily good, but I'm not going to explicitly recommend it as it may not be right for you. Should you go this way you really should follow the advice to put the music on a nas, because that's the way the 272 works best. It will do Tidal and internet radio, which with your own music would cover most of your listening and work in a very elegant way. The computer could then provide the other stuff. Should you go for something like a 282/250 you are adding lots of boxes and cost, which may or may not be what you want, and won't actually be that much better. 

Thanks HH, your comment sums up my situation very good. 

Indeed I'm not sure if I should take the 282-route as it involves lot of boxes and a lot of money and feels like investing in outdated technology.

I can arrange for home demos here in Hamburg, the dealers are very friendly.

Should the 272+555 be an improvement over nDac+555+XS then I know now that some more boxes + cables (and money) will go towards a NAS and switch, which sets the box-count-view in another perspective for me. 

p. posted:

Thanks HH, your comment sums up my situation very good. 

Indeed I'm not sure if I should take the 282-route as it involves lot of boxes and a lot of money and feels like investing in outdated technology.

I can arrange for home demos here in Hamburg, the dealers are very friendly.

Should the 272+555 be an improvement over nDac+555+XS then I know now that some more boxes + cables (and money) will go towards a NAS and switch, which sets the box-count-view in another perspective for me. 

P.  You are again making very dangerous assumptions. Try to approach the demos with an open mind - I can guarantee your dealer will demo some interesting options.

Point 1. 282 is NOT an outdated technology. Pre-amps do not change that much in their internal design.

Point 2. We have repeatedly stated that Nait XS is the weakest link in your current set up - regardless of what you do, this is the first area I would focus if I were you.

Most importantly - listen to the music, not to the equipment and choose  what sounds good to your ears.

Adam

I'd agree that the best option is to go to a dealer with an open mind and work out where you want to go, rather than focussing on the pros and cons of each individual box too much. 

As for getting a NAS, it's a small investment compared to the rest of your system, and can be located well away from your hifi rack, anywhere you can run a network cable to. Getting your digital music collection all in one place, properly organised and backed up, is well worth it. 

Adam, totally agree that it's about the music, this is what it's about and this is not too bad right now so I don't need to rush but I feel like starting to evaluate different routes now....

Maybe the layout of the 282 is still good, but the "user interface" with the record out knobs and the oldschool volume knob is not up to Muso or 272. 

Remember also the power amp. The 250DR is a fantastic thing, and I strongly suspect that a 272/555/250 will be more enjoyable than nDac/555/Nait XS. While the source may ultimately be marginally worse the extra drive will kick the speakers into life. It's only a suspicion of course, and some time at your dealer will provide the answer. At the end of the day there is more to choosing a system than absolute sound quality - box count and ease of use are more important to some people than others, if that makes sense. Remember that a good nas costs under £500, a switch £20 and standard Ethernet cable not very much at all. 

The nDAC to 272 may be a bit of a sideways step. If you like what the nDAC does, consider just improving the amplification with something like a Supernait 2 if you want to keep the box count down. Also think about the front end to the nDAC - the Mac is good but there are better digital sources. Lots of options.

Currently have a 272+200DR on home demo from my dealer and would like to share my findings:

272+555+200DR is a clearly better balanced system than nDac+555+NaitXS+HiCap. 

Yet this home demo made me aware of how much I like the tone of the nDac, with and without PS. Especially nDac+555 analog into 272+200DR shows what it is capable of.

This made me aware that I want to keep the nDac and look into other routes to upgrades the Nait XS - maybe SuperNait or 282 as was suggested above, which would probably also be a great upgrade for the vinyl department