Regen vs Gustard vs Micro Rendu

Interesting thay you are posting for advice on a Naim forum and none of the components you are keen on using are Naim

The key to your dilema is a quality of a source. Pre and power amp is of course important too.
So if you start with NDS / 555PS DR - that's about as good as one gets with a digital replay.

This is the sort of thing that makes me very happy that I have a simple streamer. What on earth are all these things? Do they make a difference? It sounds like a nightmare. Can't you just plug things into a Hugo without needing loads of different wires and little boxes? Curious Hugo? Has the world gone mad? 

Firstly, I have an XS2. Read above.

Secondly, my ears must be hyper sensitive then because I have found the smallest things to change the feeling of the music. I've made a lot of progress too. If you don't agree, don't respond.

I've actually received a replacement for my Zenith today as the CD load wasn't working. I stuck a Naim stock power cable on it and wondered why on earth the sound was bright, harsh compared to the last unit I had.

So i put the stock cable on from the Zenith and the sound smoothed.

So please don't give me pap about what works and doesn't work. I hear it. If the music doesn't feel right. Then it doesn't. 

If you aren't interested. Then don't comment.

Hungryhalibut posted:

This is the sort of thing that makes me very happy that I have a simple streamer. What on earth are all these things? Do they make a difference? It sounds like a nightmare. Can't you just plug things into a Hugo without needing loads of different wires and little boxes? Curious Hugo? Has the world gone mad? 

*cough*

Well, there's a helpful bunch here tonight.

I was just amused by HH's comment and remembered his simple streamer has some very fancy cables to help it a long...

Anyway good luck with your experiments and findings. Been there, done that with the Regen  

Server/USB DAC/NaitXS+something unmentionable/some speakers and presumably some sort of rack but which?

If any of that lot has a SMPS don't plug it in near the Nait.

You've probably gone as far as you need to up that alley but a sidetep to a streamer might be worth a demo, even with a Hugo attached, not saying it will be better mind.

Try some Quad ESL57s?

james n posted:

I was just amused by HH's comment and remembered his simple streamer has some very fancy cables to help it a long...

Anyway good luck with your experiments and findings. Been there, done that with the Regen  

Well you might be able to save me some angst then.

You tried a regen. With what? What did you expect? And what did you get? 

Assuming from the above NDX picture, not enough, so you moved on?

I can't afford that level at the moment. Maybe in the future.

Come on James. Explain yourself. 

yeti42 posted:

Server/USB DAC/NaitXS+something unmentionable/some speakers and presumably some sort of rack but which?

If any of that lot has a SMPS don't plug it in near the Nait.

You've probably gone as far as you need to up that alley but a sidetep to a streamer might be worth a demo, even with a Hugo attached, not saying it will be better mind.

Try some Quad ESL57s?

Rack is an atacama eris. Nothing fancy. 

No SMPS in sight. 

I'll try a streamer at some point. I heard some very expensive gear at the audio show but to be honest it all sounded ear bleeding apart from one chaps gear from Israel. Long dog managed to ruin a pair of Harbeth somehow with 10k worth of pre and power. Well at least to my ears. Gruesome. I don't always think spending extortionate amounts helps. I have med-small size room too. 

As mentioned above, move to SN2 just gave me bigger sound. As did other amps. But none more natural or organic.

Hence why I am fiddling with the front end.

Speakers are Proac. Shouldn't be any issues there. Or at the amp/psu level. 

Hi Thatsnotmyname,

The microRendu (mR) includes Regen technology. I would expect that you could stream from your Zenith to the mR but you will need to assure yourself of this. I think this is an excellent little box. I have found that it is sensitive to the PSU & the network cable you use with it.

If you want to use a DDC I have made some posts on the Streaming forum. I found the U12 is a solid performer, but I found the Audio Breeze DU-U8 (with Talema) is a clear step up for not too much money. Best of the three was the Mutec MC-3+ USB, available via Thomann with 30 days money back offer, more lucre but ain't that the way.

As you haven't plumped on a direction I would also advise that you have a look at the Rednet D16, this is a pro-audio bit of kit that uses Dante to stream audio at very low latencies, and is reported as better that the mR by some; but rather complex to set up apparently.

Hope this assists,

M

I picked up a Gustard but haven't been able to have a proper listen yet unfortunately due to work commitments. Although you suggest connecting via optical I've read a few times that coax sounds better on Hugo. 

That's not my NDX in the picture (been there, done that too) but that is Nigel's (HH) 272 ... 

Anyway, i used the Regen with a Mac Mini - and very good it was too but ultimately that was replaced by the other thing that can't be mentioned on here (M*lco) which surpassed the former setup. From reading about others findings, the Micorendu seems to be the high end bargain at the moment so worth taking a look at that. 

James

Part II

I've had a look at the Zenith. I think you could use the microRendu via DLNA or LMS ....but, the Zenith has this functionality built in, i.e. RJ45 > USB. I would expect the mR to be better at this aspect as it is a very specialist piece of kit, but you can't borrow it to find out.

Your main request is 'naturalness and ease', I suspect the U12 is more likely to deliver that for you - it was slightly less detailed and dynamic in my system. I would still suggest listening to a Mutec as you can always send it back.

M

Mr Underhill posted:

Hi Thatsnotmyname,

The microRendu (mR) includes Regen technology. I would expect that you could stream from your Zenith to the mR but you will need to assure yourself of this. I think this is an excellent little box. I have found that it is sensitive to the PSU & the network cable you use with it.

If you want to use a DDC I have made some posts on the Streaming forum. I found the U12 is a solid performer, but I found the Audio Breeze DU-U8 (with Talema) is a clear step up for not too much money. Best of the three was the Mutec MC-3+ USB, available via Thomann with 30 days money back offer, more lucre but ain't that the way.

As you haven't plumped on a direction I would also advise that you have a look at the Rednet D16, this is a pro-audio bit of kit that uses Dante to stream audio at very low latencies, and is reported as better that the mR by some; but rather complex to set up apparently.

Hope this assists,

M

 

Thanks. Appreciate the info.

What is DDC though? 

Cheers

Adam

Mr Underhill posted:

Part II

I've had a look at the Zenith. I think you could use the microRendu via DLNA or LMS ....but, the Zenith has this functionality built in, i.e. RJ45 > USB. I would expect the mR to be better at this aspect as it is a very specialist piece of kit, but you can't borrow it to find out.

Your main request is 'naturalness and ease', I suspect the U12 is more likely to deliver that for you - it was slightly less detailed and dynamic in my system. I would still suggest listening to a Mutec as you can always send it back.

M

 

Makes sense that the MR would be superior as it's a dedicated piece of kit. I will try some of these options. Gustard is cheap and easy to move on and a few have said Coax is better than Optical also. 

james n posted:

That's not my NDX in the picture (been there, done that too) but that is Nigel's (HH) 272 ... 

Anyway, i used the Regen with a Mac Mini - and very good it was too but ultimately that was replaced by the other thing that can't be mentioned on here (M*lco) which surpassed the former setup. From reading about others findings, the Micorendu seems to be the high end bargain at the moment so worth taking a look at that. 

James

I had a right debacle with the M+lco. I borrowed the Zenith. Which sounded much better than the Mac. Then i arranged for a M+lco to come but they forgot to send it to me even though I paid £500 deposit.

It all got a bit late and I was offered a great price on the Zenith so I decided to go with that and get it done and dusted. Will probably never know which is superior.

Cheers James

Adam

Mayor West posted:

I picked up a Gustard but haven't been able to have a proper listen yet unfortunately due to work commitments. Although you suggest connecting via optical I've read a few times that coax sounds better on Hugo. 

Be interested in to hear your thoughts when you do get round to it.

Do you have any suggestions on a good coax or optical cable?

you dont need any of these little boxes.

for best sq from hugo you need to isolate it from noise from usb and mains earth. the best way to do this is to use its optical input. use a sys concept 1300 strands 24\192 certified cable - you can order direct from sys concept in canada.

if you really want naturaless sell everything except hugo and buy atc scm20asl pro or scm19a active speakers and connect using shawline rca to xlr custom wired as below.

RCA centre pin - cable hot wire - to XLR pin 2
RCA outer ring - cable cold wire - to XLR pin 3
RCA outer ring - cable screen - to XLR pin 1

Hi,

DDC = Digital to Digital Convertor.

M

Halloween Man posted:

you dont need any of these little boxes.

Perhaps. Still need the best input signal, whatever the downstream components.

for best sq from hugo you need to isolate it from noise from usb and mains earth. the best way to do this is to use its optical input. use a sys concept 1300 strands 24\192 certified cable - you can order direct from sys concept in canada.

Certainly need to guard the signal from noise, RFI, earth loops etc. One way is optical, but things frequently come down to a complex mix of factors. The mR leverages the network cable's galvanic separation. In my case I use an AES cable between the DDC and DAC, with galvanic separation. Your suggestion of the Sysconcept cable may wrap that up nicely, or .....

if you really want naturaless sell everything except hugo and buy atc scm20asl pro or scm19a active speakers and connect using shawline rca to xlr custom wired as below.

Still need to sort the front end. I do like the theory of active systems, but I have heard great and poor examples.

This is where it would be good to have a bake off, so that we could get together and try a range of equipment and hear what is does within a system. I ended up buying three DDCs, and it was an interesting and not overly expensive exercise. But, it would be better if we all didn't have to invest the money to do the same learning.

M

I agree. It's a total nut ache going through these things but worthwhile IME.

Rather than fork out thousands and thousands with no reference.

Ive heard a lot of expensive stuff that didn't do what I thought it should. Or even what my current setup offers.

It's the subtly for me. Not that fussed on power and scale. 

I put a regen on and some decent cables and then forgot all about it.  Can't say I have had any pressing urge to upgrade what I have since to be honest and my digital source is as good as my vinyl source depending upon the quality of the recording and vice verse 

ThatsNotMyNaim posted:

Firstly, I have an XS2. Read above.

Secondly, my ears must be hyper sensitive then because I have found the smallest things to change the feeling of the music. I've made a lot of progress too. If you don't agree, don't respond.

I've actually received a replacement for my Zenith today as the CD load wasn't working. I stuck a Naim stock power cable on it and wondered why on earth the sound was bright, harsh compared to the last unit I had.

So i put the stock cable on from the Zenith and the sound smoothed.

So please don't give me pap about what works and doesn't work. I hear it. If the music doesn't feel right. Then it doesn't. 

If you aren't interested. Then don't comment.

Wow....

having read the posts above it is quite amazing that with som many variables one can still enjoy music. I think the point here is that there are TOO many varaibles at stake. With NAIM at least system synegry is aparent.

Wouldn't it be simpler to start with ND5XS and Nait XS and just enjoy it rather than agonise over variouts bits? 

Looking at forums like...computer audiophile...these little USB cleaner boxes have become an obsession. People with 2-3 of these in a chain, each with its own linear PS and special cables, the sum total of the entire mess being much more than the DAC itself. It's also gone beyond that to DIY projects of replacing the stock plastic cases of these boxes with "RF-proof" aluminum cases, etc. It's become an obsession, all of which I bet wouldn't pass a blind comparison test / it's all mental placebo effect to justify time and money expensed. 

If the PC/USB is so flawed, why not just get a good U2S or U2AES converter and be done with it?