Clinton - Trump Debate

I can only assume that the reporting on Trump on this side of the pond is misleading, because he appears, from here, to be a complete idiot with very few redeeming features which clearly can't be true given how far he has been able to progress.  I saw snippets of the debate and in no way did he look presidential to me and, broadly speaking, I thought Clinton handled him with ease

dayjay posted:

I can only assume that the reporting on Trump on this side of the pond is misleading, because he appears, from here, to be a complete idiot with very few redeeming features which clearly can't be true given how far he has been able to progress.  I saw snippets of the debate and in no way did he look presidential to me and, broadly speaking, I thought Clinton handled him with ease

Not familiar with foreign leaders.

Angela Merkel, Germany

 Theresa May, UK

 And The USA ,Hillary Clinton

Go girls!

Allante93!

Hi Allante--I'm very impressed by Hillary. I've been Ready for Hillary since 2008. She's incredibly competent, but side by side with a Bernie or a Barack, she can look like a boring apparatchik. People who need to be inspired by a candidate in order to vote need to realize that it rarely works out that way.

JRHardee posted:

Hi Allante--I'm very impressed by Hillary. I've been Ready for Hillary since 2008. She's incredibly competent, but side by side with a Bernie or a Barack, she can look like a boring apparatchik. People who need to be inspired by a candidate in order to vote need to realize that it rarely works out that way.

JR, I'm with you, Obama, Bill, and the first Lady also agrees with you.

Furthermore, they feel that on day 1 Hillary goes into the White House more prepared than either of them.

Monitary and Defense policy will be a breeze, the challenging and more demanding act, will be jobs and the economy! 

Just my perspective!

Allante93!

dayjay posted:

I can only assume that the reporting on Trump on this side of the pond is misleading, because he appears, from here, to be a complete idiot with very few redeeming features which clearly can't be true given how far he has been able to progress.  I saw snippets of the debate and in no way did he look presidential to me and, broadly speaking, I thought Clinton handled him with ease

As we learned with Fararge, BoJo, Gove and Fox (and others) though... tell the people what they want to hear and they will believe you.  In fact it's arguably the plan that worked for Dave in 2015 too...

"I have squandered my resistance,
For a pocketful of mumbles,
Such are promises,
All lies and jest,
Still, a man hears what he wants to hear,
And disregards the rest."

 Simon, P.

I'm most concerned that Trump seems to demonstrate a significant number of traits that are often associated with psychopathic behaviour (ASPD in American terms).

I'm most concerned about Trump.

Toxic leadership?

I'm not hugely interested in the media's portrayal of either of the candidates, Trump as the blustering racist, and Hilary as the voice of reason and experience.

It seems to me that there is little to choose between either of them, and I post the following link, without comment.

http://www.boreme.com/posting.php?id=46430

Hmm.

I still firmly believe there is a world of difference between the two candidates.

I can't recall a single Trump interview or speech where I wasn't utterly appalled by his contribution. I also expect that many people from outside the US are of a similar view to my own in failing to understand how Trump can possibly be viewed as an appropriate Presidential candidate by a significant number of people in the US.

I wonder if the growing story about Trump's tax affairs will prove fatal.  NY Times suggesting he hasn't paid taxes for years.  Such a revelation in a UK election would be but I don't have a feel for how this sort of things plays with the US electorate.  

Should have added, it's not the legality of the tax position but the unethical implications of tax-avoidance - the little guy has to pay their taxes but the rich can employ accountants to ensure they don't.

There is nothing unethical about LEGALLY avoiding taxes.

 Do you pad your tax bill with an extra contribution? I don't.

Yes there is, there's just nothing illegal about it. That's precisely the reason why people are alarmed and outraged when massively rich people or corporations don't pay tax, or pay proportionately tiny amounts. Legal and moral duties are different things.

I don't see it making much difference in the polls though.

SKDriver posted:

Toxic leadership?

By George, you got it!

@DRMARK, you all ready know both parties are toxic, and differ on social issues, Deep State Politics.

@ MDS, well it's just loop holes and a Business man taking advantage of them.

The real question, what type of business man?

Ethical, or unethical?

Just play by the game, all the other Presidential candidates has released their tax returns.

 One thing that really caught my attention, when the millenniums were asked if they were voting to legalize marijuana, they responded yes, but when asked about the presidential election, NO!

That says a lot, a toxic system, that doesn't work for them. Yes some were excited about Bernie, but that was educated youth, who gravitated towards promises of forgiving student loans, and free college.

Free education at Harvard, Stanford? Nope!

So yes, a Toxic System, on both sides of the Pond.

Yanis is point on, who's ever in command, the System must be Democratized!

Hillary had to back away from Obama on trade, but in the end the new world order will Prevail.

Theresa May, Merkel, Hillary, and France will band together.

Just my Take!

Allante93!

Oh I feel certain The Donald must have something that isn't going to go over well, given his reluctance to share.

 Why if he releases it, he might lose by 10 points instead of 8...

I'm in California, and thought Hilary had the composure and background to handle the office. I just can't believe Trump is supported, tho supposedly many of the Republican upper echelon have not backed him. Now Cruz backed him because he's going to loose in next Texas election. I heard one man at a pool party say he was in banking and no US bank will lend to him because of his Chapter 11 hijinks to stiff everybody he works with. So the big question is where does he get his money? Russia China? All he does now is lease out his name because he's such a bad businessman.

My gripe is the news doesn't point out the issues and demand deep explanations on their policies, Trump just says "Believe me I know!"  Hillary has those bases covered, but with  a Republican Senate she can't do any more than Obama did being hogtied with across the board NOs.  Democrats have to get Senate and Congressional seats this time around. I would thank that a little easier now that Trump is figurehead and tiring any Republican to him would cast doubt. The news said 4 states for Senate.

Ah well, I'm enjoying retirement and only watch news once a week, I keep my Blood pressure low that way. Thankfully Turner Movies have no commercials and now lots of VOD choices. Tho this is now Horror and Gore month for Halloween. UGH! 

There is nothing immoral, illegal or unethical about it, but it makes voters shudder, and it makes any perceived greed on the part of the Clintons look quaint. The debate appears to have flipped a couple of light red states. It's hard to believe that anyone with the brains of a grape hasn't made a decision yet, but they seem to be out there.

I have listened to the debate on catch up and am a little mystified why Trump has not raised the issue of Mrs Clinton's alleged dishonest dealings.  I would of thought that would be his trump card in a way of attack?  Maybe both parties  reached an informal agreement not to attack each other past dealings which may of been of a dishonest nature.  I feel sorry for the Americans as to the choice of candidates they have, and I would certainly not trust a person like Trump to be in control of the 'Nuclear red button' when he has failed (it seems intentionally) to submit his Tax Return an act at opposites to previous Presidential candidates who have submitted Tax Returns for close scrutiny.  As to who won the debate, gut feeling Trump would make more money for USA but would trample on the vulnerable and probably cause wars.  Mrs Clinton appears more diplomatic  with a surprising sort of liberal socialist  attitude to creation of wealth.  She likes the public to view her as the 'sensible one' who would mediate between white and other races in USA and to give small businesses a chance to prosper and to look 'up her website' to find out the 'true' facts against Trump's rhetoric. But is she honest as she likes people to think? 

Big problem we have is Democratic President and Republican Senate and Congress, sort of a stale mate, nothing gets done. One friend said but that's why our government is stable, no one can go too far. Just look at what happened with Bush, administration, they made it unAmerican to disagree with the war effort.  If it had been a Democratic Senate or Congress he could never have done that. But I blame Cheney and Rumsfeld for all of that mess, George was just a figurehead.  Ugh

Reading latest commentaries and Charley Rose interviews  Trump has too many problems, but Americans do want change.  So why not focus on votes for Congress and Senate to change the ineffective or nasty politicians, that would shake things up.  Ah well back to my gardening and reading and of course great music.

Robert De Niro's impassioned speech about Trump was slice of fresh air, his description of Trump was the best ever I heard to date and felt he spoke on behalf of many, many people.  

After the last female unfriendly remarks, I assume Trump is done...., let's hope he doesn't recover from it...

From over here it seems as though the income tax-related fallout from the first debate and the comments about women may have damaged him quite badly. Republicans publicly calling for him to step down as their candidate is pretty damning.

Though I suspect that a really good performance in the second debate could put him more or less back on track. What would seem to be the normal rules have been shown time and time again not to apply.

I saw De Niro's video and thought it was great to watch. Is it true that he was supposed to be delivering a neutral 'please make sure you vote, whoever it's for' kind of speech, and just spontaneously went off on one? That's how it was reported by one paper in the UK.

Tonight's second round will be fascinating once again.

mudwolf posted:

Big problem we have is Democratic President and Republican Senate and Congress, sort of a stale mate, nothing gets done. One friend said but that's why our government is stable, no one can go too far. Just look at what happened with Bush, administration, they made it unAmerican to disagree with the war effort.  If it had been a Democratic Senate or Congress he could never have done that. But I blame Cheney and Rumsfeld for all of that mess, George was just a figurehead.

True enough, but Hillary is solidly and fully in the camp of the puppet masters behind Cheney & Rumsfeld. (The so-called "neo-cons") - these are the people who have been running the show pretty much since late Reagan years when they first started to show up, and their influence and presence has only increased with each successive administration.

It is why so many  Progressives found Obama to be a big nothing compared to the "Hope and Change" that was touted - nothing changed in foreign or monetary policy...just more of the same as Dubya.

Hillary is a neo-con herself. A rabid war-monger with plenty of blood on her hands already. Fully backed by the weapons manufacturers and the big Wall Street concerns.

And with the impending melt-down of the Western financial system (yes kids, it is coming - the bond markets cannot go on this way for too much longer) a "real" war is always a "good" idea - puts a bunch of people recently unemployed to work and provides a wonderful banner for everyone to rally under, so they don't pay attention to the fact that the same losers who got everyone into the mess are the same ones claiming they will get them out, by doubling down on the same misguided fiscal policies. (Lawrence Summers, are you listening?)

Either the Italian banks or Deutsche Bank will be the likely trigger (the Bear-Stearns event), and then the dominoes will begin to tumble. The current setup is just like 2008, only on MASSIVE steroids, so watch out.

It is a damn shame that when an "outsider" finally got a shot, it had to be this f***ing @ss-clown of a reality TV show buffoon. I don't have enough expletives for this bozo. And she is akin to playing Russian roulette with an automatic pistol.

The 2 most deplorable, contemptible people to ever run for the office.