If you have a Naim NDS what Ethernet wire do you use?

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

musicfan51 posted:

In the USA a Naim NDS & 555DR cost aprox. $24,000 plus tax. To not at least try some better Ethernet cables than the cheapest possible Ethernet cables is to deny yourself the possibility of better sound. I actually did not know till recently there was better Ethernet cables. None of my friends who have nice systems uses anything better than Cat6. No one talked about Ethernet cables at all. I am glad we are at least having the conversation on here! 

Nothing wrong the logic, but remember better doesn't mean neccessarily a lot more expensive. For Cat 5e, 6, 6a, 7 and 8 cables there are many geometries and shielding configurations to choose from (UTP, U/FTP, S/UTP, F/UTP, S/FTP etc. ) as well dielectric materials all for specific IT reasons and they will nearly all sound different... I suspect some so called audiophile cable is simply based on aircraft Ethernet cable design...  However by the same logic I hope you are experimenting with different switch types, and different NAS/ UPnP media servers and OS as they all tend to sound different as welll and it is quite easy to analyze and visualise the differences (as well as listen to) with WireShark or similar...

But as Ken very wisely said, just because it sounds different doesn't make it neccessarily better...

I am trying out several switches! My UPnP is my Naim HDX (I would think that work well with the NDS/555Dr combo)  that I bought back in 2010 and my NAS is a synology. I trying different Ethernet cables. I did like the sound better with AQ Cinnamon over Cat5, and Cat6. I have not tried Cat7 yet! I am considering buying a AQ Vodka to try out. The Chord Indigo here in the states is $1395 so I think I am crossing it off. 

greekspec2 posted:

Gandalf_fi posted:

NAS-Switch Vodka, Switch-NDS Diamond. There is difference between Vodka & Diamond expecially in bass & black background area but Vodka upgrade makes more VFM. I could not return Diamond  

for me it's a few hundred dollar difference in price, do you recommend me getting the Diamond cable and returning the Vodka cable?

I've said it before and at the risk of becoming even more boring than usual, I'll say it again: a power supply for your 272 will make far more of a difference than a thousand posh Ethernet cables. These cables are fine tuning, and not a substitute for getting the fundamentals right - well matched boxes, good supports and a decent mains supply. The idea of buying Audioquest Diamond before putting an XPS or 555PS on a 272 shows how priorities can become distorted. 

musicfan51 posted:

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

musicfan51 posted:

In the USA a Naim NDS & 555DR cost aprox. $24,000 plus tax. To not at least try some better Ethernet cables than the cheapest possible Ethernet cables is to deny yourself the possibility of better sound. I actually did not know till recently there was better Ethernet cables. None of my friends who have nice systems uses anything better than Cat6. No one talked about Ethernet cables at all. I am glad we are at least having the conversation on here! 

Nothing wrong the logic, but remember better doesn't mean neccessarily a lot more expensive. For Cat 5e, 6, 6a, 7 and 8 cables there are many geometries and shielding configurations to choose from (UTP, U/FTP, S/UTP, F/UTP, S/FTP etc. ) as well dielectric materials all for specific IT reasons and they will nearly all sound different... I suspect some so called audiophile cable is simply based on aircraft Ethernet cable design...  However by the same logic I hope you are experimenting with different switch types, and different NAS/ UPnP media servers and OS as they all tend to sound different as welll and it is quite easy to analyze and visualise the differences (as well as listen to) with WireShark or similar...

But as Ken very wisely said, just because it sounds different doesn't make it neccessarily better...

I am trying out several switches! My UPnP is my Naim HDX (I would think that work well with the NDS/555Dr combo)  that I bought back in 2010 and my NAS is a synology. I trying different Ethernet cables. I did like the sound better with AQ Cinnamon over Cat5, and Cat6. I have not tried Cat7 yet! I am considering buying a AQ Vodka to try out. The Chord Indigo here in the states is $1395 so I think I am crossing it off. 

Well regarding one active forum member who runs an NDS he changed your media server for another and he felt he heard an improvement - not saying you will - but clearly you can't assume it is necessarily the best sounding for you - but of course it could be.. and remember from my post there are a multitude of different construction types for Cat 5e and Cat 6 - so definitely can't assume all Cat 5e and Cat 6 sound the same for comparison purposes - you need to compare construction codes and material types. Any quality IT cable supplier will provide this info - as it is required in some professional installations and environments.. All a branded so called audiophile cable has done, in my opinion,  has set its sights on one particular construction type and set of material types... but because its not real IT they don't tend to publish the construction types formally - perhaps to keep a certain mystique with a charmingly poetic marketing name..

S

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

musicfan51 posted:

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

musicfan51 posted:

In the USA a Naim NDS & 555DR cost aprox. $24,000 plus tax. To not at least try some better Ethernet cables than the cheapest possible Ethernet cables is to deny yourself the possibility of better sound. I actually did not know till recently there was better Ethernet cables. None of my friends who have nice systems uses anything better than Cat6. No one talked about Ethernet cables at all. I am glad we are at least having the conversation on here! 

Nothing wrong the logic, but remember better doesn't mean neccessarily a lot more expensive. For Cat 5e, 6, 6a, 7 and 8 cables there are many geometries and shielding configurations to choose from (UTP, U/FTP, S/UTP, F/UTP, S/FTP etc. ) as well dielectric materials all for specific IT reasons and they will nearly all sound different... I suspect some so called audiophile cable is simply based on aircraft Ethernet cable design...  However by the same logic I hope you are experimenting with different switch types, and different NAS/ UPnP media servers and OS as they all tend to sound different as welll and it is quite easy to analyze and visualise the differences (as well as listen to) with WireShark or similar...

But as Ken very wisely said, just because it sounds different doesn't make it neccessarily better...

I am trying out several switches! My UPnP is my Naim HDX (I would think that work well with the NDS/555Dr combo)  that I bought back in 2010 and my NAS is a synology. I trying different Ethernet cables. I did like the sound better with AQ Cinnamon over Cat5, and Cat6. I have not tried Cat7 yet! I am considering buying a AQ Vodka to try out. The Chord Indigo here in the states is $1395 so I think I am crossing it off. 

Well regarding one active forum member who runs an NDS he changed your media server for another and he felt he heard an improvement - not saying you will - but clearly you can't assume it is necessarily the best sounding for you - but of course it could be.. and remember from my post there are a multitude of different construction types for Cat 5e and Cat 6 - so definitely can't assume all Cat 5e and Cat 6 sound the same for comparison purposes - you need to compare construction codes and material types. Any quality IT cable supplier will provide this info - as it is required in some professional installations and environments.. All a branded so called audiophile cable has done, in my opinion,  has set its sights on one particular construction type and set of material types... but because its not real IT they don't tend to publish the construction types formally - perhaps to keep a certain mystique with a charmingly poetic marketing name..

S

And what would recommend that is better sounding?  Thanks 

Look at that chunky metal plug. Marvel at the robust metal clip - no manky plastic here! Look at the sexy braiding. It's simply got to be worth £300. I really don't see how anyone can doubt it. 

Hungryhalibut posted:

Look at that chunky metal plug. Marvel at the robust metal clip - no manky plastic here! Look at the sexy braiding. It's simply got to be worth £300. I really don't see how anyone can doubt it. 

Compared to the Cinammon, the cable is about twice the thickness for starters, let alone the chunky plug with extra supplied plug protector that it comes with.

As you say HH, it simply must be worth that much

Gandalf_fi posted:

greekspec2 posted:

Gandalf_fi posted:

NAS-Switch Vodka, Switch-NDS Diamond. There is difference between Vodka & Diamond expecially in bass & black background area but Vodka upgrade makes more VFM. I could not return Diamond  

for me it's a few hundred dollar difference in price, do you recommend me getting the Diamond cable and returning the Vodka cable?

Like I said the biggest difference comes with Vodka. It depends from your setup e.g. lan, used power supplies, speakers how Diamond is impacting. In my case the difference is easy to notice. Many NDS owners have a pretty expensive systems so I definitely recommend Diamond, on sound vise. Somehow it is funny that systen could cost 30k£ but people are referring here how they can save money with 7,99£ cable & it is the best. I have tried C-stream (it is good) & many others bulk CAT 6/7 as well. However, AQ sound is different & some might not like it. I changed speakers some time ago so will do AQ vs. C-stream cross check once again.

just to be clear, i didnt settle on Roline to save money. i tried quite a few very expensive alternatives (including AQ) and was happiest, SQ-wise, with the Roline.

enjoy...

ken

ChrisH posted:

Hungryhalibut posted:

Look at that chunky metal plug. Marvel at the robust metal clip - no manky plastic here! Look at the sexy braiding. It's simply got to be worth £300. I really don't see how anyone can doubt it. 

 

Compared to the Cinammon, the cable is about twice the thickness for starters, let alone the chunky plug with extra supplied plug protector that it comes with.

As you say HH, it simply must be worth that much

Now take the Chord Sarum: Pound for pound, it's more expensive than gold, so it has to exceed the gold standard doesn't it!

I guess so, but even then it cannot touch the AudioQuest Diamond.

As that because it's the hardest (substance) to beat?

Hungryhalibut posted:

greekspec2 posted:

Gandalf_fi posted:

NAS-Switch Vodka, Switch-NDS Diamond. There is difference between Vodka & Diamond expecially in bass & black background area but Vodka upgrade makes more VFM. I could not return Diamond  

for me it's a few hundred dollar difference in price, do you recommend me getting the Diamond cable and returning the Vodka cable?

I've said it before and at the risk of becoming even more boring than usual, I'll say it again: a power supply for your 272 will make far more of a difference than a thousand posh Ethernet cables. These cables are fine tuning, and not a substitute for getting the fundamentals right - well matched boxes, good supports and a decent mains supply. The idea of buying Audioquest Diamond before putting an XPS or 555PS on a 272 shows how priorities can become distorted. 

I've said it again also, my 555PS is on order at the moment

Sorry, put it down to the bang on the head, which has wrecked my memory. 

Hungryhalibut posted:

Look at that chunky metal plug. Marvel at the robust metal clip - no manky plastic here! Look at the sexy braiding. It's simply got to be worth £300. I really don't see how anyone can doubt it. 

Wow, you've sold it to me. I want one and I don't even stream anymore!

You know it makes sense. Your music will surely sound better merely from its presence in Dayjay Mansions. 

musicfan51 posted:

And what would recommend that is better sounding?  Thanks 

I believe the forum member I was referring to is now using a Synology NAS with MinimServer loaded on it

S

ken c posted:

Gandalf_fi posted:

greekspec2 posted:

Gandalf_fi posted:

NAS-Switch Vodka, Switch-NDS Diamond. There is difference between Vodka & Diamond expecially in bass & black background area but Vodka upgrade makes more VFM. I could not return Diamond  

for me it's a few hundred dollar difference in price, do you recommend me getting the Diamond cable and returning the Vodka cable?

Like I said the biggest difference comes with Vodka. It depends from your setup e.g. lan, used power supplies, speakers how Diamond is impacting. In my case the difference is easy to notice. Many NDS owners have a pretty expensive systems so I definitely recommend Diamond, on sound vise. Somehow it is funny that systen could cost 30k£ but people are referring here how they can save money with 7,99£ cable & it is the best. I have tried C-stream (it is good) & many others bulk CAT 6/7 as well. However, AQ sound is different & some might not like it. I changed speakers some time ago so will do AQ vs. C-stream cross check once again.

just to be clear, i didnt settle on Roline to save money. i tried quite a few very expensive alternatives (including AQ) and was happiest, SQ-wise, with the Roline.

enjoy...

ken

Sounds like a win-win to me Ken.

Regards

Nigel

ken c posted:

Gandalf_fi posted:

greekspec2 posted:

Gandalf_fi posted:

NAS-Switch Vodka, Switch-NDS Diamond. There is difference between Vodka & Diamond expecially in bass & black background area but Vodka upgrade makes more VFM. I could not return Diamond  

for me it's a few hundred dollar difference in price, do you recommend me getting the Diamond cable and returning the Vodka cable?

Like I said the biggest difference comes with Vodka. It depends from your setup e.g. lan, used power supplies, speakers how Diamond is impacting. In my case the difference is easy to notice. Many NDS owners have a pretty expensive systems so I definitely recommend Diamond, on sound vise. Somehow it is funny that systen could cost 30k£ but people are referring here how they can save money with 7,99£ cable & it is the best. I have tried C-stream (it is good) & many others bulk CAT 6/7 as well. However, AQ sound is different & some might not like it. I changed speakers some time ago so will do AQ vs. C-stream cross check once again.

just to be clear, i didnt settle on Roline to save money. i tried quite a few very expensive alternatives (including AQ) and was happiest, SQ-wise, with the Roline.

enjoy...

ken

That is great Ken!

Huge posted:

ChrisH posted:

Hungryhalibut posted:

Look at that chunky metal plug. Marvel at the robust metal clip - no manky plastic here! Look at the sexy braiding. It's simply got to be worth £300. I really don't see how anyone can doubt it. 

 

Compared to the Cinammon, the cable is about twice the thickness for starters, let alone the chunky plug with extra supplied plug protector that it comes with.

As you say HH, it simply must be worth that much

Now take the Chord Sarum: Pound for pound, it's more expensive than gold, so it has to exceed the gold standard doesn't it!

Yeah Chord Sarum is just too pricey to consider. I am sure it sounds very good especially if you have Chord Sarum in your system already. But it is around $2500 a meter here in the States. Not looking to spend that kind of money! 

Hungryhalibut posted:

greekspec2 posted:

Gandalf_fi posted:

NAS-Switch Vodka, Switch-NDS Diamond. There is difference between Vodka & Diamond expecially in bass & black background area but Vodka upgrade makes more VFM. I could not return Diamond  

for me it's a few hundred dollar difference in price, do you recommend me getting the Diamond cable and returning the Vodka cable?

I've said it before and at the risk of becoming even more boring than usual, I'll say it again: a power supply for your 272 will make far more of a difference than a thousand posh Ethernet cables. These cables are fine tuning, and not a substitute for getting the fundamentals right - well matched boxes, good supports and a decent mains supply. The idea of buying Audioquest Diamond before putting an XPS or 555PS on a 272 shows how priorities can become distorted. 

as for main like I said prior it's not my house so I can't do anything there but, it was built in 2011 so everything is new, I have a Hubbell HBL5262R wall duplex, Wiremold PS with Wattgate 5266i plug, Powerlines on my 300DR & N272, AQ Vodka patch cable, SuperLumina SL, AQ Vodka toslink, AQ Vodka HDMI, no Fraim because I'm limited to space and 555DR PS on order

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

musicfan51 posted:

And what would recommend that is better sounding?  Thanks 

I believe the forum member I was referring to is now using a Synology NAS with MinimServer loaded on it

S

I can look into that. Though the Naim and a synology NAS I have r very good! 

Though of course this thread is really about is if you have an upper end streamer, what Ethernet cables do you use! It has been a nice discussion and I was glad to find out what people with Naim streamers were  using ! 

greekspec2 posted:

Hungryhalibut posted:

greekspec2 posted:

Gandalf_fi posted:

NAS-Switch Vodka, Switch-NDS Diamond. There is difference between Vodka & Diamond expecially in bass & black background area but Vodka upgrade makes more VFM. I could not return Diamond  

for me it's a few hundred dollar difference in price, do you recommend me getting the Diamond cable and returning the Vodka cable?

I've said it before and at the risk of becoming even more boring than usual, I'll say it again: a power supply for your 272 will make far more of a difference than a thousand posh Ethernet cables. These cables are fine tuning, and not a substitute for getting the fundamentals right - well matched boxes, good supports and a decent mains supply. The idea of buying Audioquest Diamond before putting an XPS or 555PS on a 272 shows how priorities can become distorted. 

as for main like I said prior it's not my house so I can't do anything there but, it was built in 2011 so everything is new, I have a Hubbell HBL5262R wall duplex, Wiremold PS with Wattgate 5266i plug, Powerlines on my 300DR & N272, AQ Vodka patch cable, SuperLumina SL, AQ Vodka toslink, AQ Vodka HDMI, no Fraim because I'm limited to space and 555DR PS on order

I can remember for years arguments that no way power cords can make a difference in sound! Now it is much more acceptable. I thought they did myself, early on. 

Let me ask you a question?

Does it make sense to use nas to melco cat7 and then diamond ?

Is it the last part more important?

Then makes sense to buy melco instead a long diamond nas-streamer

Is my logic Wrong? 

Emre posted:

Let me ask you a question?

Does it make sense to use nas to melco cat7 and then diamond ?

Is it the last part more important?

Then makes sense to buy melco instead a long diamond nas-streamer

Is my logic Wrong? 

Hard to know unless you try it!  With power cords we do that . 

Expensive ethernet cables are making melco a good deal, I can put on the rack without contaminating my electric and can use a short patch of diamond

or use a nas with a power supply with a decent and long cat7 belden cable with a telegartner rj45 connector with a fraction of the price

2 good options different cost

Any expert opinion ? Experience?