If you have a Naim NDS what Ethernet wire do you use?

Adam Zielinski posted:

NAS to switch: Chord C-Stream

Switch to wall sockets: standard CAT 6 cables

Wall socket to NDS: Chord Indigo Tuned ARAY streaming cable

Like most here I started with regular CAT 6 cables and tested various options - each one was an improvement. Hence the final selection.

Crumbs, that Indigo cable is expensive. Looking at the Chord website, it's interesting that it has cheap looking plastic connectors, whereas the AQ Vodka for example has very solid metal connectors. I wonder why this is - is the connector irrelevant and it's just the wire that makes the difference?

GraemeH posted:

This all bemuses me. I run short 'normal' cat6e from modem to NAS and a long run (15m) of 'normal' cat6e from NAS into the NDX.

Could this be optimised?

G

Absolutely - the potential to empty you wallet is enormous. 

Thank you for all your replies! I am going to order Audioquest Cinnamon Ethernet cable through Amazon and see if it gives me any improvement. I recently added a Chord Sarum super Aray to my NDS and it made a big difference! Then started reading articles that says it does matter what ethernet cables you use on your streamer! So I guess I will test it out! 

Getting the better Cisco switch sounds like a worthwhile investment too! Though when I saw it was over $400 I was surprised. But quality always costs money! 

GraemeH posted:

This all bemuses me. I run short 'normal' cat6e from modem to NAS and a long run (15m) of 'normal' cat6e from NAS into the NDX.

Could this be optimised?

G

Yes.

Take Adams advice above.

Install a wall socket and run a length of high quality cable from it to the NDX.

Hungryhalibut posted:

Adam Zielinski posted:

NAS to switch: Chord C-Stream

Switch to wall sockets: standard CAT 6 cables

Wall socket to NDS: Chord Indigo Tuned ARAY streaming cable

Like most here I started with regular CAT 6 cables and tested various options - each one was an improvement. Hence the final selection.

Crumbs, that Indigo cable is expensive. Looking at the Chord website, it's interesting that it has cheap looking plastic connectors, whereas the AQ Vodka for example has very solid metal connectors. I wonder why this is - is the connector irrelevant and it's just the wire that makes the difference?

It does seem to be an oposit to the Audioquest Vodka, doesn't it? I thinik it's the quality of the cables and the shielding / screening that is critical here.

Chord seem to call this a 'streaming cable' as opposed to a regular 'network cable'. I don't know what the technical difference is, but it does sound different and marvelous.

My dealer was kind enough to loan me 4 or 5 different cables from the Chord range. I liked 3 of them: C-Stream, Signature and Indigo. 
A funny story: when I actually asked my dealer about the streaming cables, he looked at me as if I have finally and completely lost my mind. But something must have intrigued him - next time I popped in, he had a range of them on a rack, and his streamers were hooked up with at least C-Stream, Usually it's the dealer that pushes the envelope... 

fatcat posted:

GraemeH posted:

This all bemuses me. I run short 'normal' cat6e from modem to NAS and a long run (15m) of 'normal' cat6e from NAS into the NDX.

Could this be optimised?

G

Yes.

Take Adams advice above.

Install a wall socket and run a length of high quality cable from it to the NDX.

So, S6e Modem to NAS, 15m S6e NAS to wall socket and then 1m expensive 'specialist' cable to NDX...All my instincts say more junctions = poorer results. Why am I wrong?

G

Adam Zielinski posted:

Hungryhalibut posted:

Adam Zielinski posted:

NAS to switch: Chord C-Stream

Switch to wall sockets: standard CAT 6 cables

Wall socket to NDS: Chord Indigo Tuned ARAY streaming cable

Like most here I started with regular CAT 6 cables and tested various options - each one was an improvement. Hence the final selection.

Crumbs, that Indigo cable is expensive. Looking at the Chord website, it's interesting that it has cheap looking plastic connectors, whereas the AQ Vodka for example has very solid metal connectors. I wonder why this is - is the connector irrelevant and it's just the wire that makes the difference?

It does seem to be an oposit to the Audioquest Vodka, doesn't it? I thinik it's the quality of the cables and the shielding / screening that is critical here.

Chord seem to call this a 'streaming cable' as opposed to a regular 'network cable'. I don't know what the technical difference is, but it does sound different and marvelous.

My dealer was kind enough to loan me 4 or 5 different cables from the Chord range. I liked 3 of them: C-Stream, Signature and Indigo. 
A funny story: when I actually asked my dealer about the streaming cables, he looked at me as if I have finally and completely lost my mind. But something must have intrigued him - next time I popped in, he had a range of them on a rack, and his streamers were hooked up with at least C-Stream, Usually it's the dealer that pushes the envelope... 

...or smells an opportunity to tap a new (gullible - who, us?) market more like!

G

GraemeH posted:

fatcat posted:

GraemeH posted:

This all bemuses me. I run short 'normal' cat6e from modem to NAS and a long run (15m) of 'normal' cat6e from NAS into the NDX.

Could this be optimised?

G

Yes.

Take Adams advice above.

Install a wall socket and run a length of high quality cable from it to the NDX.

So, S6e Modem to NAS, 15m S6e NAS to wall socket and then 1m expensive 'specialist' cable to NDX...All my instincts say more junctions = poorer results. Why am I wrong?

G

Mr G - I don't really understand the 'mechanics' of why this last 1 meter should make a difference. But it does.

I sort of rationalised it to myself, using a power cord's analogy. Why would using a PowerLine for the last two meters make a difference? But it does...

My suggestion is just borrow some different streaming cables from your dealer and play with them. Chord actually encourage their customers and dealers to loan streaming cables for tests (Nigels Finn's from Chord own words, when I asked him for some advice).

GraemeH posted:

Adam Zielinski posted:

Hungryhalibut posted:

Adam Zielinski posted:

NAS to switch: Chord C-Stream

Switch to wall sockets: standard CAT 6 cables

Wall socket to NDS: Chord Indigo Tuned ARAY streaming cable

Like most here I started with regular CAT 6 cables and tested various options - each one was an improvement. Hence the final selection.

Crumbs, that Indigo cable is expensive. Looking at the Chord website, it's interesting that it has cheap looking plastic connectors, whereas the AQ Vodka for example has very solid metal connectors. I wonder why this is - is the connector irrelevant and it's just the wire that makes the difference?

It does seem to be an oposit to the Audioquest Vodka, doesn't it? I thinik it's the quality of the cables and the shielding / screening that is critical here.

Chord seem to call this a 'streaming cable' as opposed to a regular 'network cable'. I don't know what the technical difference is, but it does sound different and marvelous.

My dealer was kind enough to loan me 4 or 5 different cables from the Chord range. I liked 3 of them: C-Stream, Signature and Indigo. 
A funny story: when I actually asked my dealer about the streaming cables, he looked at me as if I have finally and completely lost my mind. But something must have intrigued him - next time I popped in, he had a range of them on a rack, and his streamers were hooked up with at least C-Stream, Usually it's the dealer that pushes the envelope... 

...or smells an opportunity to tap a new (gullible - who, us?) market more like!

G

Well... Possibly.

Nevertheless - just try it and see if it does anything for your system. 

If not - OK. I will buy a nice bottle of good wine.

If yes - you can buy me a nice pint of English best.

I use Meicord Opal as well. Last meter to the network player is most important. I will soon consider Chord Indigo streaming for that matter.

Chag -

Graeme - I think it's very common to take that view until you hear for yourself what a difference these cables make. One thing you should do though, and it will only cost you twenty quid - connect a switch to the router (you mean router, not modem, don't you?) and then connect both the nas and the streamer to the switch. The system will then be more reliable. 

We have our switch near the stereo so that we only need short cables. The nas is actually only two feet away from the 272, but it's in the dining room, with a hole drilled through the wall for the Ethernet. I wonder if there is a way whereby you could run a posh wire from a switch to the streamer. This makes the biggest difference, followed by the wire from the switch to the nas. 

I've been using AQ Cinnamon for about three years, and it's very very good. However, I've swapped to Vodka in the past couple of weeks and it's miles better, more natural, more engaging and more perky than the Cinnamon. It's funny how these wires improve the sound, but they certainly do. 

If you are sending Adam wine, you can send me some nice Scottish mineral water, as I'm banned from alcohol until I'm recovered, which is most annoying. Still, the saving will pay for the cables. 

GraemeH posted:

fatcat posted:

GraemeH posted:

This all bemuses me. I run short 'normal' cat6e from modem to NAS and a long run (15m) of 'normal' cat6e from NAS into the NDX.

Could this be optimised?

G

Yes.

Take Adams advice above.

Install a wall socket and run a length of high quality cable from it to the NDX.

So, S6e Modem to NAS, 15m S6e NAS to wall socket and then 1m expensive 'specialist' cable to NDX...All my instincts say more junctions = poorer results. Why am I wrong?

G

Yes, I see your point.

 I find it very hard to believe an external phono stage (with it’s interconnect) is better than phono cards in a pre amp (which involves no interconnect).

I never even thought of this until I got the Chord sarum Super Aray interconnect! Dealer mentioned there was a super aray streaming cable! But the price was up there. Then I read some articles that is made a difference. I don't think it hurts to try the Audioquest cinnamon Ethernet! Can always return it if I hear no change. I am using 5e and it has to be better than that. 

So HungryHalibut, it is well worth the money to invest in the Vodka Ethernet cable over the Cinnamon ? Noticeable difference? 

Graeme,

Yes, I was just about to suggest a switch but HH beat me to it. The introduction of this very cheap addition makes a difference in both stability and SQ. The switch effectively removes the music streaming bit of your LAN from the (usually) very noisy router (again I assume you meant router rather than modem). OK you need an extra bit of ethernet cable to connect router to switch but this does not need to be posh as it is less vital to SQ as long as it is well made. Cheap ethernet cables (e.g. patch cables than come free with a router) have a habit of breaking internally should you even breathe on them!

The Netgear switches are very good value for money but as usual with these devices, they use noisy (electrically) SMPSs. It is worth (IMHO) substituting the SMPS that comes with Netgear switches with an iFi iPower power supply. I got very good results (in SQ terms) when I did.

Hungryhalibut posted:

Graeme - I think it's very common to take that view until you hear for yourself what a difference these cables make. One thing you should do though, and it will only cost you twenty quid - connect a switch to the router (you mean router, not modem, don't you?) and then connect both the nas and the streamer to the switch. The system will then be more reliable. 

We have our switch near the stereo so that we only need short cables. The nas is actually only two feet away from the 272, but it's in the dining room, with a hole drilled through the wall for the Ethernet. I wonder if there is a way whereby you could run a posh wire from a switch to the streamer. This makes the biggest difference, followed by the wire from the switch to the nas. 

I've been using AQ Cinnamon for about three years, and it's very very good. However, I've swapped to Vodka in the past couple of weeks and it's miles better, more natural, more engaging and more perky than the Cinnamon. It's funny how these wires improve the sound, but they certainly do. 

If you are sending Adam wine, you can send me some nice Scottish mineral water, as I'm banned from alcohol until I'm recovered, which is most annoying. Still, the saving will pay for the cables. 

Thanks - I had a netgear switch but removed it as it didn't perceptibly add or take away anything...just an extra smps on the mains.

What kind of socket might I consider? (noooo....the madness begins!)

G

nigelb posted:

Graeme,

Yes, I was just about to suggest a switch but HH beat me to it. The introduction of this very cheap addition makes a difference in both stability and SQ. The switch effectively removes the music streaming bit of your LAN from the (usually) very noisy router (again I assume you meant router rather than modem). OK you need an extra bit of ethernet cable to connect router to switch but this does not need to be posh as it is less vital to SQ as long as it is well made. Cheap ethernet cables (e.g. patch cables than come free with a router) have a habit of breaking internally should you even breathe on them!

The Netgear switches are very good value for money but as usual with these devices, they use noisy (electrically) SMPSs. It is worth (IMHO) substituting the SMPS that comes with Netgear switches with an iFi iPower power supply. I got very good results (in SQ terms) when I did.

Posted while I was posting but thanks.

G

If you did not want to pay over $400 for a Cisco switch what would be the second best choice? 

Hungryhalibut posted:

Hi Mike,  Am I right in thinking that the GS105 has metal shrouds? I have a Lindy plugged into the Qnap, but when I plugged my new and rather lovely Ethernet cable into the Lindy, the latter flops around a bit in the Qnap because the wire is quite heavy. It works fine and sounds great, but it does seem incongruous to plug a £200 cable into a £3 bit of plastic.... Such is life I suppose. 

Hi HH, yes all the variations & age revisions of GS105 & GS108 have metal shrouds,  as do the FS versions.  The 105/8 replacement called GS305 does not however.  The desktop versions (fancy looking cases) have models with metal or plastic.

I see your point about a £200 cable flopping around on £3's worth of plastic;   how about getting a new un-shrouded switch,   that means you can have multiple grounds but the switch will isolate the screens on each leg from each other & the Lindy is not required.  

In my opinion, definitely yes, especially with an NDS. I can clearly hear the difference with a more modest system, and with one of my ears hardly working at the moment. Of course, it may not work for you - the arrangement I had with my dealer was that I bought it on the understanding that if I didn't hear an improvement I could take it back for a refund. Although the price is quite small relative to the system, these cables are still very expensive. 

Mike-B posted:

Hungryhalibut posted:

Hi Mike,  Am I right in thinking that the GS105 has metal shrouds? I have a Lindy plugged into the Qnap, but when I plugged my new and rather lovely Ethernet cable into the Lindy, the latter flops around a bit in the Qnap because the wire is quite heavy. It works fine and sounds great, but it does seem incongruous to plug a £200 cable into a £3 bit of plastic.... Such is life I suppose. 

Hi HH, yes all the variations & age revisions of GS105 & GS108 have metal shrouds,  as do the FS versions.  The 105/8 replacement called GS305 does not however.  The desktop versions (fancy looking cases) have models with metal or plastic.

I see your point about a £200 cable flopping around on £3's worth of plastic;   how about getting a new un-shrouded switch,   that means you can have multiple grounds but the switch will isolate the screens on each leg from each other & the Lindy is not required.  

Thanks Mike. Now I've got the Lindy and the ifi iPower supply I'll stick with it - the Netgear pootles along happily and I don't want to risk anything going wrong. I was just intrigued. 

Mike, I have a total of 3 Netgear switches in my network. Do you think it's worthwhile upgrading the SMPS for all of them or simply for the connection to the NDS streamer.

The Chord tuned aray cable is about £850 for a 1m cable, way out of my price range. But I've never heard a Chord cable I've liked, so have no desire to try it. The AQ Vodka is £295 for 1.5m, and £215 for 0.75m. Cinnamon is about £65 for 0.75m. Chord C stream is cheaper, I think about £30. The prices are all on the Chord website. 

I will probably stick with Audioquest to try out! I have Chord Sarum super Aray interconnect & Sarum speaker wire. But I do not think I want to spend $1000 for a Ethernet cable! The Chord products are more pricey in the USA!