If you have a Naim NDS what Ethernet wire do you use?

I've been following this thread with interest as I've been pondering the upgrade of my ethernet cables for a while.

However, I'm a little confused by the discussion on earthing and having an earth at only one point. Would someone be good enough to explain where the earthing points would be as other than my iMac and 272, everything else on my network uses DC PSU's which don't have an earth. Does that mean the iMac and 272 are the only earthing points and one should be broken?

Thanks

Hi Paul,   DC PSU's can carry an earth,  not all,  but some do.   But to keep it simple,  your iMac does not have a grounded RJ45 port,  the 272 does have a grounded port.  Next question is what make/model is your switch ??  & same question for the ethernet cables.  

Gandalf_fi posted:

NAS-Switch Vodka, Switch-NDS Diamond. There is difference between Vodka & Diamond expecially in bass & black background area but Vodka upgrade makes more VFM. I could not return Diamond  

Build quality looks much better on the Vodka over Cinnamon! Better connectors! 

Mike-B posted:

Hi Paul,   DC PSU's can carry an earth,  not all,  but some do.   But to keep it simple,  your iMac does not have a grounded RJ45 port,  the 272 does have a grounded port.  Next question is what make/model is your switch ??  & same question for the ethernet cables.  

Thanks for the reply Mike.

The switches are Netgear ProSafe GS105 & 108 and cables are all Chord C-Stream.

Just thinking about it I also have a Fibre bridge using TP-LINK MC100 media converters just before my microRendu. 

Is there anyway for a layman like me to establish if a component has a grounded port or not? I notice some have metal surrounds and others plastic which may have just answered my own question.

Yep,  plastic RJ45 ports are a pretty good indicator.   But knowing if a metal shrouded port is truly grounded is not so easy, even for someone who knows his way around a multimeter.  I got fooled into thinking my Synology NAS was not grounded because it was powered from a 12vDC PSU,  whoops !!!

The 272 ethernet port is grounded, so thats the one ground you need.  C-Streams screen continuity is carried through the Netgear ProSafe metal shrouded ports to the next C-Stream(s).   The TP-Link has a metal port,  but is its PSU connected to earth - I can't tell without a meter,  but if its power plug is 2 pin or the earth pin is plastic,  that means its not.

But remember, while one ground point on a LAN is prefered,  it won't do much that bad in a domestic situation if its not.

musicfan51 posted:

Find a Lindy adaptor no easy think in USA. Any other company make an adopter like this!!

Sorry, I don't know who else produces an equivalent to the Lindy adaptor.

Google is your friend here.

Paulebarrow posted:

Mike-B posted:

Hi Paul,   DC PSU's can carry an earth,  not all,  but some do.   But to keep it simple,  your iMac does not have a grounded RJ45 port,  the 272 does have a grounded port.  Next question is what make/model is your switch ??  & same question for the ethernet cables.  

Thanks for the reply Mike.

The switches are Netgear ProSafe GS105 & 108 and cables are all Chord C-Stream.

Just thinking about it I also have a Fibre bridge using TP-LINK MC100 media converters just before my microRendu. 

Is there anyway for a layman like me to establish if a component has a grounded port or not? I notice some have metal surrounds and others plastic which may have just answered my own question.

 

Thanks Mike, much appreciated.

Gandalf_fi posted:

NAS-Switch Vodka, Switch-NDS Diamond. There is difference between Vodka & Diamond expecially in bass & black background area but Vodka upgrade makes more VFM. I could not return Diamond  

for me it's a few hundred dollar difference in price, do you recommend me getting the Diamond cable and returning the Vodka cable?

greekspec2 posted:

Gandalf_fi posted:

NAS-Switch Vodka, Switch-NDS Diamond. There is difference between Vodka & Diamond expecially in bass & black background area but Vodka upgrade makes more VFM. I could not return Diamond  

for me it's a few hundred dollar difference in price, do you recommend me getting the Diamond cable and returning the Vodka cable?

If you have the money to spare I would get the Diamond! 

Mike-B posted:

Yep,  plastic RJ45 ports are a pretty good indicator.   But knowing if a metal shrouded port is truly grounded is not so easy, even for someone who knows his way around a multimeter.  I got fooled into thinking my Synology NAS was not grounded because it was powered from a 12vDC PSU,  whoops !!!

The 272 ethernet port is grounded, so thats the one ground you need.  C-Streams screen continuity is carried through the Netgear ProSafe metal shrouded ports to the next C-Stream(s).   The TP-Link has a metal port,  but is its PSU connected to earth - I can't tell without a meter,  but if its power plug is 2 pin or the earth pin is plastic,  that means its not.

But remember, while one ground point on a LAN is prefered,  it won't do much that bad in a domestic situation if its not.

So we should not be overly concerned about multiple ground points? 

Not overly concerned,    but being ever-so-slightly OCD over these things,  I had to take a sedative to be able to write that.  Now as the sedative has begun to subside I will add that if a jobs worth doing, then do it right.  

ROLINE UTP  Cat6a and its 15m long -- probably only need 12 but...

good wire, i have found -- ridiculously inexpensive too...

enjoy

ken

ken c posted:

ROLINE UTP  Cat6a and its 15m long -- probably only need 12 but...

good wire, i have found -- ridiculously inexpensive too...

enjoy

ken

Inexpensive ethernet cable!!! You are having a laugh. Gotta spend hundreds (if not thousands) to get decent ethernet wire these days. 

ken c posted:

ROLINE UTP  Cat6a and its 15m long -- probably only need 12 but...

good wire, i have found -- ridiculously inexpensive too...

enjoy

ken

This is also what I have. 15m was about £7.99 I recall.

G

GraemeH posted:

ken c posted:

ROLINE UTP  Cat6a and its 15m long -- probably only need 12 but...

good wire, i have found -- ridiculously inexpensive too...

enjoy

ken

This is also what I have. 15m was about £7.99 I recall.

G

If you have a top notch Naim streamer in makes sense to experiment with better streaming Ethernet cables! They do make a difference. 

musicfan51 posted:

GraemeH posted:

ken c posted:

ROLINE UTP  Cat6a and its 15m long -- probably only need 12 but...

good wire, i have found -- ridiculously inexpensive too...

enjoy

ken

This is also what I have. 15m was about £7.99 I recall.

G

If you have a top notch Naim streamer in makes sense to experiment with better streaming Ethernet cables! They do make a difference. 

i did. and i agree they do make a difference. of course whether the difference is an improvement or not then depends on a LOT of other factors local to the system and installation, blah blah blah -- you've heard it all before i'm sure...

I have settled on the Roline and i am very happy with them. not just for the NDS but for all my LAN components...

enjoy...

ken

Keep in mind if you have a long run you can just do a short patch of higher end at the streamer end with a coupler. Or both ends for that matter. I just hooked up my UQ with newly returned Ls50's in the office. I have 25ft of bog standard big box running too it, no the best treated. Seemed to sound fine, but certainly a bit hard compared to upstairs. Patched in a 3ft piece of cinnamon with a $1.99 coupler and instant relaxation. An AV option tibia plus power cable took it just that much further. 

ken c posted:

musicfan51 posted:

GraemeH posted:

ken c posted:

ROLINE UTP  Cat6a and its 15m long -- probably only need 12 but...

good wire, i have found -- ridiculously inexpensive too...

enjoy

ken

This is also what I have. 15m was about £7.99 I recall.

G

If you have a top notch Naim streamer in makes sense to experiment with better streaming Ethernet cables! They do make a difference. 

i did. and i agree they do make a difference. of course whether the difference is an improvement or not then depends on a LOT of other factors local to the system and installation, blah blah blah -- you've heard it all before i'm sure...

I have settled on the Roline and i am very happy with them. not just for the NDS but for all my LAN components...

enjoy...

ken

If you are happy, it is all cool Ken!! 

greekspec2 posted:

Gandalf_fi posted:

NAS-Switch Vodka, Switch-NDS Diamond. There is difference between Vodka & Diamond expecially in bass & black background area but Vodka upgrade makes more VFM. I could not return Diamond  

for me it's a few hundred dollar difference in price, do you recommend me getting the Diamond cable and returning the Vodka cable?

Like I said the biggest difference comes with Vodka. It depends from your setup e.g. lan, used power supplies, speakers how Diamond is impacting. In my case the difference is easy to notice. Many NDS owners have a pretty expensive systems so I definitely recommend Diamond, on sound vise. Somehow it is funny that systen could cost 30k£ but people are referring here how they can save money with 7,99£ cable & it is the best. I have tried C-stream (it is good) & many others bulk CAT 6/7 as well. However, AQ sound is different & some might not like it. I changed speakers some time ago so will do AQ vs. C-stream cross check once again.

Gandalf_fi posted:

greekspec2 posted:

Gandalf_fi posted:

NAS-Switch Vodka, Switch-NDS Diamond. There is difference between Vodka & Diamond expecially in bass & black background area but Vodka upgrade makes more VFM. I could not return Diamond  

for me it's a few hundred dollar difference in price, do you recommend me getting the Diamond cable and returning the Vodka cable?

Like I said the biggest difference comes with Vodka. It depends from your setup e.g. lan, used power supplies, speakers how Diamond is impacting. In my case the difference is easy to notice. Many NDS owners have a pretty expensive systems so I definitely recommend Diamond, on sound vise. Somehow it is funny that systen could cost 30k£ but people are referring here how they can save money with 7,99£ cable & it is the best. I have tried C-stream (it is good) & many others bulk CAT 6/7 as well. However, AQ sound is different & some might not like it. I changed speakers some time ago so will do AQ vs. C-stream cross check once again.

N272,NAP 300DR,Focal Sopra No.3

In the USA a Naim NDS & 555DR cost aprox. $24,000 plus tax. To not at least try some better Ethernet cables than the cheapest possible Ethernet cables is to deny yourself the possibility of better sound. I actually did not know till recently there was better Ethernet cables. None of my friends who have nice systems uses anything better than Cat6. No one talked about Ethernet cables at all. I am glad we are at least having the conversation on here! 

greekspec2 posted:

Gandalf_fi posted:

greekspec2 posted:

Gandalf_fi posted:

NAS-Switch Vodka, Switch-NDS Diamond. There is difference between Vodka & Diamond expecially in bass & black background area but Vodka upgrade makes more VFM. I could not return Diamond  

for me it's a few hundred dollar difference in price, do you recommend me getting the Diamond cable and returning the Vodka cable?

Like I said the biggest difference comes with Vodka. It depends from your setup e.g. lan, used power supplies, speakers how Diamond is impacting. In my case the difference is easy to notice. Many NDS owners have a pretty expensive systems so I definitely recommend Diamond, on sound vise. Somehow it is funny that systen could cost 30k£ but people are referring here how they can save money with 7,99£ cable & it is the best. I have tried C-stream (it is good) & many others bulk CAT 6/7 as well. However, AQ sound is different & some might not like it. I changed speakers some time ago so will do AQ vs. C-stream cross check once again.

N272,NAP 300DR,Focal Sopra No.3

OK, Diamond should make a difference compared to Vodka.

greekspec2 posted:

Gandalf_fi posted:

greekspec2 posted:

Gandalf_fi posted:

NAS-Switch Vodka, Switch-NDS Diamond. There is difference between Vodka & Diamond expecially in bass & black background area but Vodka upgrade makes more VFM. I could not return Diamond  

for me it's a few hundred dollar difference in price, do you recommend me getting the Diamond cable and returning the Vodka cable?

Like I said the biggest difference comes with Vodka. It depends from your setup e.g. lan, used power supplies, speakers how Diamond is impacting. In my case the difference is easy to notice. Many NDS owners have a pretty expensive systems so I definitely recommend Diamond, on sound vise. Somehow it is funny that systen could cost 30k£ but people are referring here how they can save money with 7,99£ cable & it is the best. I have tried C-stream (it is good) & many others bulk CAT 6/7 as well. However, AQ sound is different & some might not like it. I changed speakers some time ago so will do AQ vs. C-stream cross check once again.

N272,NAP 300DR,Focal Sopra No.3

Nice ! 

musicfan51 posted:

In the USA a Naim NDS & 555DR cost aprox. $24,000 plus tax. To not at least try some better Ethernet cables than the cheapest possible Ethernet cables is to deny yourself the possibility of better sound. I actually did not know till recently there was better Ethernet cables. None of my friends who have nice systems uses anything better than Cat6. No one talked about Ethernet cables at all. I am glad we are at least having the conversation on here! 

Nothing wrong the logic, but remember better doesn't mean neccessarily a lot more expensive. For Cat 5e, 6, 6a, 7 and 8 cables there are many geometries and shielding configurations to choose from (UTP, U/FTP, S/UTP, F/UTP, S/FTP etc. ) as well dielectric materials all for specific IT reasons and they will nearly all sound different... I suspect some so called audiophile cable is simply based on aircraft Ethernet cable design...  However by the same logic I hope you are experimenting with different switch types, and different NAS/ UPnP media servers and OS as they all tend to sound different as welll and it is quite easy to analyze and visualise the differences (as well as listen to) with WireShark or similar...

But as Ken very wisely said, just because it sounds different doesn't make it neccessarily better...