Best way to integrate Qobuz into a Naim system

Gert, Chris, Richard

Some progress to report - I now have BubbleUPnP running on my Synology. Hurrah! But - I can't access the controls for it - if I hit the icon, or just try putting the ipaddress/58050 in to my browser (Safari), I just get a 'Safari can't connect' message - I think this is a permissions issue, but I don't know how to resolve it. I've also tried Lumin and Kazoo on my iPhone, but they're not yet seeing my SU. So progress, but very slow!

I suspect Gert wishes he was sitting here on my Mac, sorting these problems out in seconds - but I remain very grateful for the help the three of you are providing.

Paul

Yes right, I really would like to see, what the problem could be. Do not know if I could really help though, because I do not know about a necessity to grant any rights for access to the config page.

There is another way to find the link to the configuration page: In the bubble-upnp-server package detail page (just click the package in the package center). There you have the current state of the server. it should say "running" (or something like this; I have the GUI displayed in German). Also you find there the "URL" to the config page. In my case it is http://jo:58050 (my NAS is named "jo" what results in "JONAS" Haha, what a joke.)

Also you can find the link to display a log window. Take a look in there if you can find something about an error. 

If the server is really running, it should be accessible. Maybe it is a firewall problem on the MAC? Or are you using an ipad? (It would be a good idea to test the access from another device if possible.)

Or do you have enabled the firewall on the NAS? Maybe you could try to turn it off for a test?

No, I've checked and there;s no firewall operational on my Synology. I've also just updated the firmware, so it's rebooted but I still can't access either way. Clicking the package icon in Package Centre just attempts to open a web page which won't open. Grrr!

I know sod-all about MACs but the Bubble Synology app is using port 58050 and it might be your MAC's firewall blocking that port?

I love Qobuz and have a mu-so. Until the last few days I've been mostly using Audirvana+ on an iMac and streaming to mu-so with AirPlay. However reading about the new Unitis reminded me that the Qobuz IOS app supports ChromeCast Audio so I bought one (£30) and "Eureka":

• Plugged the ChromeCast into the mu-so with the supplied yellow 3.5mm analogue lead
• Installed Google Cast app on my iPad Mini and set up ChromeCast (you hear a reassuring beeps)
• Started the Qobuz IOS app and started playing an album on the iPad. A new Google Cast icon appears
• Tap the icon, choose your Chromecast and the music moves to the mu-so

I then remembered that during beta testing, I'd been particularly impressed by the sound quality of the mu-so digital (toslink) input. Luckily I had a spare toslink cable and mini toslink adaptor. Replaced the yellow analogue cable with this. Now the ChromeCast is streaming digitally and using the mu-so DAC rather than the ChromeCast DAC. This seems to me to be the perfect solution:

• "Casting" moves the stream from the iPad to the ChromeCast. I confirmed this by powering off the iPad. The ChromeCast continues playing the current album to the end. When you restart the iPad and open the Qobuz app, it resyncs to the current track playing. Thus we have a digital connection from Qobuz to the mu-so
• This means you can also stream your purchased HD albums. I'm currently listening to one at 24 bits/96 kHz and it sounds magnificent (you can see the resolution in the Qobuz app). Before, the only way I could do this was either to download the album to the iMac and stream from MinimServer via uPnP to the mu-so (on Ethernet), or plug the iPad directly into the mu-so USB.
• The booklets are to hand on the iPad - easier than reading a CD insert or the back of a 33rpm album!
• Incidentally this also works for the Tidal app, though only for FLAC 16-bits/44.1 kHz and no booklets
• It also works for BBC iPlayer Radio, both for live streams but more importantly for everything in the schedule (e.g. last Friday's Radio 3 in Concert) where you can use the scroll circle to move to any part of the programme. Again, this is "cast", meaning that you can turn the iPad off if you want to, or make a call on your iPhone. The ChromeCast is streaming directly from the BBC.

I now understand why Naim is planning to include Google Cast in the new Unitis. Meanwhile for an outlay of less than £35 we can have most of the benefits on any system with a digital input.

david

Using Android you even don't need Chromecast. BubbleUpnP as controllpoint app recognizes the Muso as (open home?) renderer so that you can directly stream into the Muso without using Chromecast.  Maybe this is also possible with an Apple controlpoint app that supports open home and of course Qobuz (maybe Linn Kazoo)?

@DavidS. That's an interesting idea, presumably the Chromecast Audio could be connected to a SuperUniti in exactly the same way?

[@mention:49577343082471944] I don't have a SuperUniti but I looked up the manual and you could connect the Chromecast Audio into one of the three TOSLINK sockets at the back, or the mini TOSLINK input on the front. The Chromecast Audio has the same arrangement as the SU front mini TOSLINK socket, with its socket doubling as 3.5mm analogue or mini TOSLINK. Therefore you could use the short analogue cable that comes with the Chromecast Audio to get started, then change to digital to use the SU DAC.

Just to reiterate, the big wins (as I see them) are that "casting" switches the stream from your iPad or other IOS or Android device to the Chromecast, freeing up your device for other uses. The only difference from "native" Tidal is that you use the Qobuz app rather than the Naim one to choose what you want to listen to. Also, you can now stream your HD purchases directly from Qobuz to the mu-so or SU. This is working well for me, even at 24 bits/96 kHz (Apple Airport Extreme, 80 Mbps fibre internet).

Apart from the Qobuz app, the only software you need is the Google Cast app. Set up is simple.

david

Thanks David,  I decided to order one as I've got a spare mini TOSLINK to TOSLINK cable. The idea of being able to use the iOS Qobuz app is very attractive and this seems a very simple solution.

[@mention:49577343082471944] Look forward to hearing how you get on 

Just found on the Qobuz site http://www.qobuz.com/GB-en/inf...st-for-Dummies178183

With thanks again to Gert, Chris and Richard for their attempts to help me, and apologies for my long absence having started this thread - combination of being away, and some ill-health.

Here's where I've got to: can't resolve the permissions issue trying to run Bubble PnP Server, and frankly losing interest in that solution, to which I've already devoted several hours (as have some of you). But what has happened in the last few days is that an article in the current Gramophone about live streaming of concerts and operas has greatly piqued my interest. How am I going to make this work with say the Berlin Phil's Digital Concert Hall App? I now need a tv feed as well as audio. I'm beginning to think I need to revisit a MacMini as a format agnostic solution. I could control this from a MacBook Pro, so I could make it work. Actually I sent a question or two to Andrew Everard via his website - he's Gramophone's Audio Editor, as well as being well known, and generally helpful, in this parish. Somewhat to my surprise, he hasn't responded.

But DavidS's very interesting contribution above has got me thinking about Chromecast. I'm not sure as a purely audio solution, it gains a lot over my current iPad-Apple TV-SU solution, because it still involves a wireless element - though the ability to stream at 96/24, which I can't do via my Apple set-up, is worth something. The Chrome TV box really does look like it might be useful, but it only has an HDMI output - fine for the TV, but offering no way of getting digital audio into my SU. Dies anyone know if one can run two Chromecast boxes simultaneously from a single iPad App? Then, for £60, I could have digital audio into my SU, and a good quality picture into my TV? If only Chrome offered a separate digital output on their tv box, I'd be away! But if one can run two Chromecasts at once, I'm also away - for a pretty modest investment. Help on this greatly appreciated.

Quick PS - there seems to be an Ethernet adaptor gizmo available for the Chromecast Audio box - so it seems I could make the thing hard-wired.

[@mention:13393020365863930] I think you can run as many ChromeCasts as you like as they are separate devices on the network, each with their own name (which you choose). When casting, you select the ChromeCast you want to use, and for the Audio version, you can set up multi-room combinations. I bought mine at John Lewis but when looking around afterwards I noticed that PC World is offering a bundle of a ChromeCast and ChromeCast Audio for £55. The Qobuz page I referenced in my previous post explains the differences. Doing a bit of googling, there seem to be quite a lot of people wanting  to stream simultaneously to their TV and sound system but no obvious solution. Maybe that's why Naim is planning an HDMI input on the new Unitis 

Thinking about your current solution, doesn't that mean Qobuz is streaming to your iPad and the iPad to the AppleTV? That's quite a lot of wi-fi traffic. I just tried it (using AirPlay from iPad to mu-so on Ethernet) and it does work but it also means you need to keep the iPad running. The ChromeCast Audio solution means that after the "cast" has been initiated, only the ChromeCast is streaming from the wi-fi so there is half the wi-fi traffic. Even better is your thought of using an Ethernet adaptor. Pity Google isn't offering an Ethernet adaptor with a UK plug.

david

David, thanks for the link which looks very useful.

Goon, The Chromecast Audio is due for delivery tomorrow and I've already got an original Chromecast plugged into the TV (which the Qobuz app recognises), so I'll see how they coexist on my iPad and report back.  The Ethernet adaptor looks handy.

David

I'm afraid your first para in your helpful contribution has me confused. You say that (a) you can run as many Chrome Casts as you like, but (b) there is no obvious solution to running sound and vision simultaneously. But isn't running both Casts the obvious solution, and shouldn't I go to PC Workd tomorrow and buy the pair? Or can I run as many as I like, but not simultaneously? Sorry if I'm being really dim.

Yes,  you're right that I'm currently running Qobuz wirelessly to my iPad, wirelessly to my Apple TV, but then wired to the SU. Believe it or not, it works pretty well. But I'd prefer a wired solution.

Thanks

Paul

[@mention:13393020365863930] Sorry for the confusion. With the Audio version (only, as I understand it) the multi-room solution is that you can gather them into "groups" and then cast to a group (i.e. cast to more than one Chromecast Audio). However I do not think you can group a Chromecast (HDMI) with a Chromecast Audio. You would have to find some other way of getting the HDMI audio to the SU. However, please bear in mind that I only have one Chromecast Audio and one mu-so, so that is all I know. Everything else is guesswork though I did read a review explaining Chromecast Audio multi-room. Perhaps [@mention:49577343082471944] can tell us more when he gets his Chromecast Audio?

Off topic, I have just ordered a Chromecast Ethernet adaptor from a UK seller on ebay.

david

Hmm. I wonder (but fear I know the answer!) if it's possible from an iPad simultaneously to cast to a TV Chrome for vision, and airplay to an Apple TV for sound. If the answer is No, looks like the Mac Mini is back in pole position.

PS And I wonder why PC World is selling both Chrome Casts as a pair if you can't actually use them both together?

Hi Paul -

Does your TV have an audio out? If so, you could stick with your video Chromecast idea into the tv with hdmi audio and video, then take audio only from your TV back to the appropriate digital or analog input on your SuperUniti. Worth exploring, as it would be simpler than many things you've already tried!

Regards alan

Alan

You've raised an interesting point. I had dismissed this idea, because I really don't want to take some low grade analogue output from my tv into the SU. But you inspired me at least to have a look at the rat's nest behind the Panasonic, and I have spotted a digital audio out - it seems to be on a similar shared output that Apple use. It wouldn't be ideally elegant to use Chrome-TV-SU, but at least the signal would remain digital until the SU decoded it. So definitely worth thinking about - thank you.

I'll wait until Chris reports back on his new dual Chrome system before going any further, though.

Paul

Hi

I've 1 normal chromecast and am actively using 2 chromecast audio's. 1 ca audio in my living, 1 in my study. I can simultaniously run a movie on my tv using the normal chromecast, and use e.g. DSAudio (Synology) to play some audio in my living and a different piece of music in my study. All managed from the same phone.

Its brilliant and good quality since I use the optical cables from the CA audio to my devices.

I would love to see some posts about a comparison between a NDX versus a ChromeCast Audio + NDac or so.

Promising, Ardbeg10Y, but what I need to do is send the SAME programme via video to my TV, and via audio to my hifi. (And they need to be absolutely simultaneous, with no data lag either way.) Any chance you can see if that works?

Thanks 

Paul

Not sure if I complete understand your situation / question / problem but I have also a coax cable from tv to my Supernait 1 (has a Dac, like your SU). If I use this output, my telly in room 1 will show the tv program, and my speakers in room 2 will do the sound. I don't use this since my tv has good speakers (primary reason for buying this tv). In the future I will add some AV thingy and use the digital cable more.

I have a Loewe Art tv which outputs normal PCM (Stereo) on the digital out for normal tv programs.

Regarding music, DSAudio allows to manage multiple devices from one app. Have not tried multiroom in its purest way: synchronized, I dont use that. I don't know if this is supported either.

The biggest benefit from hard-wiring the chromecasts is that the network connection almost never gets lost anymore and when I select a certain track to play, it almost instantly starts. I got all of them hardwired.

Goon525 posted:

Alan

You've raised an interesting point. I had dismissed this idea, because I really don't want to take some low grade analogue output from my tv into the SU. But you inspired me at least to have a look at the rat's nest behind the Panasonic, and I have spotted a digital audio out - it seems to be on a similar shared output that Apple use. It wouldn't be ideally elegant to use Chrome-TV-SU, but at least the signal would remain digital until the SU decoded it. So definitely worth thinking about - thank you.

I'll wait until Chris reports back on his new dual Chrome system before going any further, though.

Paul

I've actually done some DCH (digital concert hall) tests: the demo's available on my TV and link the TV to my Supernait (digital) and I was quite satisfied with the experience. Since TV is in a separate room, I cound not keep the situation and brought back the TV to its place.

+ forgot to mention that my next step is to add a MacMini (if a new model gets released, the current model is quite overdue) into my TV.

I consider to buy an NDac and wire all digital connections into the NDac (Apple TV, TV Coax Digital Out, ChromeCast Audio, MacMini) and from the NDac 1 good analogue connection to the SN.

But that is serious money, however well spend if it happens.