Best way to integrate Qobuz into a Naim system

[@mention:13393020365863930] I guess I already have a big Mac Mini (iMac27) so I can see the attraction, but I don't have a long enough USB cable and a long TOSLINK cable is inconvenient. I'll be interested to hear how you get on, especially in the live concert streaming area. Thanks also for the original topic.

Meanwhile reporting that the Chromecast Ethernet adaptor arrived this morning (new, £26). The instructions are amusing  - just a picture with three numbered steps: connect Chromecast to output device, connect Ethernet to socket on power supply, plug in power supply. I did this and the LED changed to white in less than 30s. In the Qobuz app, tapped the Cast button. Music. On a technical note, the Ethernet IP is different to the Wi-Fi IP which it is no longer using (similar behaviour to the RaspberryPi 3).

For me, possibly the best quality I've heard on my mu-so plus the convenience outweighs other considerations (what a long way we've come since 78s), and I can live with gap full playback. The gaps are very brief and, for most of what I listen to, barely noticeable, and I can always fall back to Audirvana+ or UPnP if they're annoying. However I will ask Qobuz if they can put pressure on Google to implement CCA gapless.

david

DavidS posted:

[@mention:13393020365863930] I guess I already have a big Mac Mini (iMac27) so I can see the attraction, but I don't have a long enough USB cable and a long TOSLINK cable is inconvenient. I'll be interested to hear how you get on, especially in the live concert streaming area. Thanks also for the original topic.

Meanwhile reporting that the Chromecast Ethernet adaptor arrived this morning (new, £26). The instructions are amusing  - just a picture with three numbered steps: connect Chromecast to output device, connect Ethernet to socket on power supply, plug in power supply. I did this and the LED changed to white in less than 30s. In the Qobuz app, tapped the Cast button. Music. On a technical note, the Ethernet IP is different to the Wi-Fi IP which it is no longer using (similar behaviour to the RaspberryPi 3).

For me, possibly the best quality I've heard on my mu-so plus the convenience outweighs other considerations (what a long way we've come since 78s), and I can live with gap full playback. The gaps are very brief and, for most of what I listen to, barely noticeable, and I can always fall back to Audirvana+ or UPnP if they're annoying. However I will ask Qobuz if they can put pressure on Google to implement CCA gapless.

david

I'm waiting for the moment that someone is going to write here / throw as stone in the water that the Qobuz / Chromecast solution is better than the other streaming solutions into an NDX or even NDS. Heh! I would not be surprised ...

The gaps are indeed very short, especially when the ChromeCast is using UTP - so, same observation here.

As already mentioned and apologies for being late here, I have Qobuz sublime running through the original ChromeCast via my Sony TV. TV has Toslink out into a N272.
HiRes streaming up to 24/192 of owned/bought music is all fine (WiFi dependent mines a little slower than most so it does have the odd gap), although what the 272 is actually getting from the TV (does that convert down I wonder, does Toslink have a limiter as such so via the Sony TV it gets 24/192 from Qobuz but converse to say 16/44.1, I can't tell to be honest)
So I am not sure as the info on the NAIM app just says digital signal locked but assume it is the same as fed into the TV and out again.
TV screen shows full screen what is playing and all the album info, track listings, playback quality etc which looks pretty good on a 55" HD TV.
Non purchased streamed are all 16/44.1 and sound pretty good.
I wonder if it could be better mind perhaps the ChromeCast Audio with 3.5mm-Toslink conversion ups the ante and direct into the 272 removing the TV from the signal path?
For me though via the iPhone iOS Qobuz app this is all I need for streaming and browsing new music online and cost nothing as I had the ChromeCast sitting in a draw for ages so a bit of find for me here.

@DavidS, it probably is worth contacting Qobuz so I'm happy to do this as well.  To be fair, I wasn't comparing gapless for my purchased downloads between the Chromecast Audio and Audirvana+, but to the Naim app using JRiver as a UPnP server - where it seems flawless.  Apart from this one issue, Chromecast Audio continues to impress for reliability (I'm still using Wifi), ease of use and sound quality.

Hi [@mention:22826037037337414] Good to hear from someone else following this path. With all the experience of having had the Chromecast Audio since last Thursday (!) I rely on the Qobuz app to tell me what it's streaming. I don't have many HR purchases but they do differ in resolution, e.g. from Anoushka Shankar Land Of Gold 24 bits/44.1 kHz to Rachel Podger Biber Rosary Sonatas 24 bits/192 kHz. For Land Of Gold, when you show the full screen Currently Playing window in the app, it reports 24 bits/44.1 kHz, and for the Biber, 24 bits/96 kHz which seems sensible as it is the limit for Chromecast Audio and also for TOSLINK connection to the mu-so. I'm monitoring the bandwidth used and can see that streaming the Biber is downloading at around 2 Mbps, whereas Land of Gold is below 1 Mbps. This seems to suggest that the resolution shown in the app is the resolution you are getting at the Chromecast and hopefully being passed on to the mu-so DAC. Currently listening to the Biber and don't want to stop, but later I will compare traffic on 24/44.1 and 16/44.1. Loving the simplicity of this. The downside is that I've purchased two more Hi-Res albums in the last 24 hours, one being Norah Jones Day Breaks which is on offer to Sublime users at £10.47 for two more days.

david

Hi DavidS,

The only addition I can think off to clean the signal path is to have an HDMI audio stripping device that outputs SPDIF/Toslink thus removing the need to use the TV to do the same thing. Amazon have a version for under £20.00.

The continued enthusiasm for Chromecast by several here is just giving me pause for thought before I commit quite a  lot of money on a Mac Mini. Given that my goal are (i) to create a wired solution for Qobuz to replace my existing iPad/Apple TV/SU; and (ii) to allow for the Berlin Phil Digital Concert Hall and other live streams, it seems that this would solve my problems for less than £100:-

• Buy the pair of audio and TV Chromecasts for £55 from PC World
• Buy the Ethernet adaptor for the audio Chromecast from eBay for a bit over £20
• Maybe buy an HDMI splitter giving an optical audio output from the TV Chromecast for just over £20 (or maybe rely on the digital audio output from my TV and save this money)

Apart from the fact that this is a bit of a messy solution, it seems to serve my needs except for the lack of gapless audio on Qobuz - but a couple of users here have assured me that the gaps are tiny.

One question I have is whether everything one runs through an iPad can be casted by the ChromeCast? And if so, why Qobuz bother to mention that they're ChromeCast compatible - isn't everything?

Paul

Goon525 posted:

 

Apart from the fact that this is a bit of a messy solution, it seems to serve my needs except for the lack of gapless audio on Qobuz - but a couple of users here have assured me that the gaps are tiny.

One question I have is whether everything one runs through an iPad can be casted by the ChromeCast? And if so, why Qobuz bother to mention that they're ChromeCast compatible - isn't everything?

Paul,

I'm maybe a bit intolerant, but I did find the gaps - although brief -  made some things unlistenable to.  A good example is the Teodor Currentzis Rite of Spring, where the gap at the end of introduction wrecks the build up to the climax.  (This was good news for a certain UK based music dealer, as I was so impressed by the performance I bought the high res download).  Similarly with the end of the intro on most recordings of Das Rheingold.

David, could you check the Currentzis album please to see if something is amiss with my setup?

Not all apps on the iPad are ChromeCast compatible, Netflix and the BBC are for example, but (unsurprisingly) Safari is not.

Chris

I tried a Chromecast Audio, connected optically to my 272. It wasn't connected to wired Ethernet, which may make a difference, but I thought the sound was dreadful, really thin and weedy with no dynamics at all. Like I said, a wired connection may transform it, and perhaps I should have tried to do that, but didn't want any more wires. 

ChrisByrd posted:

 

David, could you check the Currentzis album please to see if something is amiss with my setup?

Not all apps on the iPad are ChromeCast compatible, Netflix and the BBC are for example, but (unsurprisingly) Safari is not.

Hi Chris

Nothing wrong with your setup, it's the same for me. The Currentzis Rite is a good example of why gapless is essential for some recordings. This is a continuous piece of music and the gap (short as it is) is akin to turning over a 78 rpm record! I can't bear it either. I compared the Qobuz app via USB, and Qobuz Desktop and Audirvana+ via AirPlay, and none had a gap.

I also tried the Rachel Podger Rosary Sonatas, this time comparing ChromeCast Audio, Qobuz app via USB and UPnP, all 24 bits/ 96 kHz. At the end of track 1 there is short period of the room background which fades out to a quiet background hiss. Here the short period of silence across the CCA gap is barely noticeable.

Thinking about [@mention:4804681823084713]'s comments about sound quality via the CCA, I tried to hear differences on the Biber (which I know he also has), comparing CCA, USB and UPnP but wasn't convinced. On the other hand, my hearing is not what it was and maybe the mu-so is not sufficiently revealing. HH if you still have your ChromeCast Audio, maybe you could try it with your Qb?

BTW I didn't notice any differences when I changed to wired Ethernet.

david

DavidS posted:

ChrisByrd posted:

 

David, could you check the Currentzis album please to see if something is amiss with my setup?

Not all apps on the iPad are ChromeCast compatible, Netflix and the BBC are for example, but (unsurprisingly) Safari is not.

Hi Chris

Nothing wrong with your setup, it's the same for me. The Currentzis Rite is a good example of why gapless is essential for some recordings. This is a continuous piece of music and the gap (short as it is) is akin to turning over a 78 rpm record! I can't bear it either. I compared the Qobuz app via USB, and Qobuz Desktop and Audirvana+ via AirPlay, and none had a gap.

I also tried the Rachel Podger Rosary Sonatas, this time comparing ChromeCast Audio, Qobuz app via USB and UPnP, all 24 bits/ 96 kHz. At the end of track 1 there is short period of the room background which fades out to a quiet background hiss. Here the short period of silence across the CCA gap is barely noticeable.

Thinking about [@mention:4804681823084713]'s comments about sound quality via the CCA, I tried to hear differences on the Biber (which I know he also has), comparing CCA, USB and UPnP but wasn't convinced. On the other hand, my hearing is not what it was and maybe the mu-so is not sufficiently revealing. HH if you still have your ChromeCast Audio, maybe you could try it with your Qb?

BTW I didn't notice any differences when I changed to wired Ethernet.

david

My findings were that there is no real SQ difference between wired / non wired, but the connection is much more stable (no dropouts anymore) and the gaps between the tracks are much smaller since it loads the data much faster.

I'm really surprised by HH's finding, but I've heared a similar thing at a friend of mine, who was using a Sonos into a Cambridge amp. The 'fun' was gone from the music. Sounded very 2d / metal - I had the impression that the bitrate was drastically turned down. Sounded like bad mp3 files.

Regarding compatibility, my wife can stream Spotify / public television from here iPhone to the CC(A).

It's interesting to hear you say that wired or wireless made no difference, so I don't need to wast time bothering to try one wired. It really was dismal. But then I don't think much of Tidal compared to upnp either, while others think it's little if any different. 

I used to want Qobuz but these days I'm not bothered. I've got lots of albums and there's the radio as well. Sometimes there can be too much choice. 

DavidS posted:

Nothing wrong with your setup, it's the same for me. The Currentzis Rite is a good example of why gapless is essential for some recordings. This is a continuous piece of music and the gap (short as it is) is akin to turning over a 78 rpm record! I can't bear it either. I compared the Qobuz app via USB, and Qobuz Desktop and Audirvana+ via AirPlay, and none had a gap.

 

Hi David,

Thanks for trying that - at least I know I'm not being over fussy.  I've found the Rite in most recordings to be an excellent way to check how good gapless playback is.  Perhaps it's the sudden dynamic contrasts.  I'm still often surprised that a work I first heard almost 50 years ago can still have such an impact.  My ears must be ageing as well, as the Chromecast Audio certainly doesn't sound dismal through my SuperUniti.

I'm a bit with HH when it comes to subscription services.  I started buying CDs in 1989 - now all ripped to FLAC.  Buying and ripping the occasional giant CD box set and keeping a close eye on the eClassical/BIS, Hyperion and Chandos download offers is keeping me going for new listening.

Chris

One of the reasons I like Qobuz is because it lets me do my own version of Building a Library, listening to lots of versions and trying to decide which I like best 

Yes, this is one of the great things about Qobuz and something I found much more difficult in Tidal - especially for classical.  Perhaps it's Tidal's awful interface, cr*p metadata and lack of album booklets.  The important thing is to enjoy the music, however it's delivered

Unlike others, streaming is now my main source of listening. I read Gramophone and BBC Music Mag each month, might pick five or six interesting new releases I'd like to hear, and then listen via Qobuz. In the old days I might have bought say two of them. If the SQ via Qobuz is inferior to CD, it's a very marginal difference.

Having said that, I have just bought two Norah Jones Hi Res downloads, making use of the huge Qobuz Sublime discounts!

Yes, like [@mention:13393020365863930] it's ages since I bought a CD, mainly listening to BBC Radio 3 or Qobuz. I have bought some Hi-Res albums, partly with the thought that this is supporting the artist and Qobuz. I enjoy exploring Qobuz Discover New Releases and charts, usually set to Classical. Unsurprisingly Nora Jones is at No 1. She sounds great via CCA at 24/96. Feels like I'm sitting in the front row at LSO St Lukes 

ChrisByrd posted:

@DavidS. That's an interesting idea, presumably the Chromecast Audio could be connected to a SuperUniti in exactly the same way?

@ChrisByrd and @Davids , I have been using Chrome Cast for almost a year now with Sublime subscription via a mini toslink to my uniti2 digital input. I'm  playing 24bit form my purchase of sublime and 16 bit from the Qobuz app I use iPhone 6s and all seems perfect to me , I probably have posted this before a year ago when I first tried it  as I was very pleased with the sound quality

hope that helps 

Mohamed Amin posted:

ChrisByrd posted:

@DavidS. That's an interesting idea, presumably the Chromecast Audio could be connected to a SuperUniti in exactly the same way?

@ChrisByrd and @Davids , I have been using Chrome Cast for almost a year now with Sublime subscription via a mini toslink to my uniti2 digital input. I'm  playing 24bit form my purchase of sublime and 16 bit from the Qobuz app I use iPhone 6s and all seems perfect to me , I probably have posted this before a year ago when I first tried it  as I was very pleased with the sound quality

hope that helps 

Thanks Mohamed.  Yes, connecting the Chromecast via TOSLINK to my SuperUniti is working very well - even just using WiFi.  Absolutely the only issue is with lack of gapless playback, but a number of people seem to be pursuing Qobuz over this.

Not sure if anybody's pointed this out before, but the Chrome browser on a Mac allows you to cast from the Qobuz web player to the Chromecast Audio.  The Qobuz desktop app doesn't seem to, though there might be a setting I'm missing.  

I added Chromecast Audio to our Qute 2496 (WiFi / toslink) just to get Tidal in the dining room. Not quite up to upnp (cabled) but not at all bad. Certainly fit for purpose, which seems to be streaming cheesey 80s tunes to embarrass our children after dinner.

Chris

Just thought I'd report back. I've now bought a (Used but latest) Mac Mini with a 1gb SSD installed. Early signs are very promising, and I've successfully trialled the Berlin Phil Digital Concert Hall, and have decided to subscribe to that. Also Qobuz seems satisfactory using their Mac Desktop App (and I can simultaneously run the Qobuz iPad app to read the booklet notes). I'm running the Mini off my MacBook Pro using Screen Share, which seems remarkably fast and accurate (I was less happy with iPad apps). So, not the cheapest solution, but one that seems to do what I need.

One question. Is there much point in my buying Audirvana? I'm currently using UPnP for my downloaded files stored on a NAS and hardwired to the network. Will I gain anything by shifting them on to the Mac Mini? One downside is, that in the absence of a USB input on my SuperUniti, I'm limited to the digital output from the Mini, and thus to 96/24. Interested in people's views.

Paul

You can now cast Tidal from the Tidal app on your android device or iphone. There is a small icon in the middle of the display on the left hand side - easy to miss. 

This means that the data is coming from the web via your network Ethernet wire, not via the phone and wifi. Together with a battery power supply for the Chromecast Audio (and toslink connection to my NDS digital input) the sound quality is very impressive.

No doubt the NDS firmware update will be at least as good, but I am not impatient for it to happen any more.

Sorry for the thread hijack - I know it is a Qobus thread!)

[@mention:27613035029716976] - have you tried gapless playback with the Tidal app?

@Paul - sounds like you made a good choice.  I already owned Audirvana+ before buying a SuperUniti, but only really use it now for Qobuz - it allows gapless playback and you can use the the A+ remote app to control Qobuz.  I tend to use JRiver these for maintaining my library and as a UPnP server for the Naim app.

I wouldn't have thought there'd be any advantage to you getting A+ as the optical out on the Mac never sounds as good to me as UPnP - others might disagree though.

Chris - haven't tried it as such as I can never remember which albums are gapless - if you can point me to an example album which features gapless I will give it a listen.