Introducing Uniti, our revolutionary new streaming platform.

Pcd posted:

Richard Dane Posted

I think the world has changed and Naim are having to go with it.

Very true Richard if you *don't go with it* how long will you survive,
companies like Naim must evolve with new products to suit market changes
both here and abroad.

Absolutely right,  I said in a previous post that of course this has to be the case Naim Audio are a business and are in the business of making money they are not some altruistic fair trade organisation supplying musical nirvana from their celestial base in Salisbury they are a business.  What I did say and was chastised for by another member was that a new Analogue first based system would have been nice, a new Nait perhaps or an Aro 2 even but anyway yes the new gear looks and without doubt will sound fantastic.  The interesting thing though is that it seems the most talked about new item is the Power Line lite.

Mark R posted:

Could Core get the streaming platform? That would be ideal

Core is ripping and serving only...

Phil

fred40 posted:

Sorry English is not my native tongue. ""why should the advice be any different do you think?"". Well theres clearly visible a power of button.I wonder why? Upto now Naim did not have those on the front. Clearly this is done to completly shut down the gear. Which contradicts the former statement from Naim to better leave the gear on 24/7. Has this statement or advice changed with the new unitis.

Remember that the EUP regulations aren't 'optional' for a manufacturer ... any new devices have to comply with the regulations that are in force at the time they are designed (or revised) otherwise it simply can't be sold. (This is why the HDX went from the power button putting it into "standby" to the power button actually turning it off completely requiring a power cycle on the rear to restart it.)

My 'baseload' for the HiFi, NASs and other kit that I leave running 24/7 is currently about 550w (used to be more like 1kW at my old place as I rationalised my big servers down to a couple of 'proper' but hefty NASs) but there is rather a lot of it and I regard it as a reasonable cost for the functionality that I get from it. (...and it's a bit of background low level heating for my flat - I kid you not!)

Phil

spurrier sucks posted:

Couple of impressions from RMAF, Core seems like a steal here in the US.  I would hate to own a US right now. Hoping that same fate doesn't fall on my Uniti 2. The new Uniti prices here in the US seem very nice compared to the old Uniti range. I thought there would be a steep price increase but that doesn't seem to be the case. Again the Core looks to be a steal at $2500. 

Remember that £/$ exchange rates have moved considerably in your favour, post brexit which has probably 'masked' much the price increase you are (not) seeing in the US.

Phil Harris posted:

Mark R posted:

Could Core get the streaming platform? That would be ideal

Core is ripping and serving only...

Phil

Would be a good thing though to implement a streamer.

jon honeyball posted:

A random, rambling thought about platforms, upgrades etc, fueled by too little coffee whilst sat in the lab here at 8am on a saturday morning with a workload mountain to get through....

I think there is some confusion hereabouts regarding the directions in which improvements happen.

In the analogue world, you tend to make the big bets at the high end by doing things like reinventing your power regulator with an entirely new design, with circuit design to support it (eg DR) and then hope you can increase volume of the item by pulling it down the range. Much of this has happened with Statement -- volume knob, work on DR etc. You start by redefining the top of the tree.

Digital work goes the other way. You have to start with the volume product and then refine it upwards. Remember what I wrote about Naim (and Linn etc) not being able to define wire standards? It means that Naim has to work to other peoples rules here, and inter-operate both with networking protocols, streaming protocols and data formats. They have to make it as good as they can. This learning is iterative, and is ideal for pushing *up* the range. 

So you cannot start with a Statement level streamer. All that would happen is that you end up with an orphaned platform where support costs are terrifying, unit volumes are minuscule and profits are probably losses anyway, because you cannot push downwards with the digital tech. You *must* start at the lower end and push upwards. 

Do this week's announcements meant that a Statement streamer wont happen? I have no idea, and if i did I wouldn't discuss it here. What I am 100% certain about however, is that Naim *has* to get the Unity core digital platform out of the door *first*, and then strive to have it trickle upwards. 

if what has been said is true, then new Unity is a significant step up from old Unity, which in itself was a damn good platform for digital operation. New unity platform plus naim R&D to push upwards has huge possibilities for new NDX and NDS devices, and maybe ultimately a Statement level device. 

But do not confuse and conflate what can be done in the analogue area (push down) with the digital area (push up)

Hope that helps

jon

That is a rather fine analysis of development directions for analogue and digital and makes a lot of sense to me.

If, for a moment, we accept that the next phase of upgrades will be trickle up advances from the new Uniti range to the Classic streamers, I have been idly speculating how this might be achieved with the minimum of annoyance to us ND owners from potential redundancy, or an enforced box upgrade.

Historically, Naim have been pretty good in this area, providing upgrades within the same box where possible, for example DR upgrades. Agreed, there are occasions where kit and the technology they rely on gets so out of date, or is so in need of refreshing, the only course of action is a full box upgrade like the Uniti range - particularly the Core product. So I am wondering (or is that hoping) if the speculated update to the ND streamer range could be archived by component upgrades. I do realise that the entire streaming platform has moved on so such an upgrade might require your ND box to go on a trip to Salisbury. Or am I deluding myself?

I remember owning Arcam CDPs and DVD players and the manufacturer made it possible to benefit from an internal DAC upgrade merely by a visit to a dealer and an exchange of one PCB. I wonder if this kind of upgrade might be possible with our current ND streamers.

nigelb posted:

 

 

That is a rather fine analysis of development directions for analogue and digital and makes a lot of sense to me.

If, for a moment, we accept that the next phase of upgrades will be trickle up advances from the new Uniti range to the Classic streamers, I have been idly speculating how this might be achieved with the minimum of annoyance to us ND owners from potential redundancy, or an enforced box upgrade.

Historically, Naim have been pretty good in this area, providing upgrades within the same box where possible, for example DR upgrades. Agreed, there are occasions where kit and the technology they rely on gets so out of date, or is so in need of refreshing, the only course of action is a full box upgrade like the Uniti range - particularly the Core product. So I am wondering (or is that hoping) if the speculated update to the ND streamer range could be archived by component upgrades. I do realise that the entire streaming platform has moved on so such an upgrade might require your ND box to go on a trip to Salisbury. Or am I deluding myself?

I remember owning Arcam CDPs and DVD players and the manufacturer made it possible to benefit from an internal DAC upgrade merely by a visit to a dealer and an exchange of one PCB. I wonder if this kind of upgrade might be possible with our current ND streamers.

Phil already posted yesterday, but I can't remember when exactly and haven't looked for it again, where he explained all the hardware reasons why ND streamers couldn't be updated to the new platform by factory upgrades.  I would have thought that one or more new streamers or streamer preamps based on the new platform were dead certs for sometime in the next year though.

best

David

David Hendon posted:

nigelb posted:

 

 

That is a rather fine analysis of development directions for analogue and digital and makes a lot of sense to me.

If, for a moment, we accept that the next phase of upgrades will be trickle up advances from the new Uniti range to the Classic streamers, I have been idly speculating how this might be achieved with the minimum of annoyance to us ND owners from potential redundancy, or an enforced box upgrade.

Historically, Naim have been pretty good in this area, providing upgrades within the same box where possible, for example DR upgrades. Agreed, there are occasions where kit and the technology they rely on gets so out of date, or is so in need of refreshing, the only course of action is a full box upgrade like the Uniti range - particularly the Core product. So I am wondering (or is that hoping) if the speculated update to the ND streamer range could be archived by component upgrades. I do realise that the entire streaming platform has moved on so such an upgrade might require your ND box to go on a trip to Salisbury. Or am I deluding myself?

I remember owning Arcam CDPs and DVD players and the manufacturer made it possible to benefit from an internal DAC upgrade merely by a visit to a dealer and an exchange of one PCB. I wonder if this kind of upgrade might be possible with our current ND streamers.

Phil already posted yesterday, but I can't remember when exactly and haven't looked for it again, where he explained all the hardware reasons why ND streamers couldn't be updated to the new platform by factory upgrades.  I would have thought that one or more new streamers or streamer preamps based on the new platform were dead certs for sometime in the next year though.

best

David

Ah, OK, I missed that post by Phil. I will have a look for it.

David Hendon posted:

nigelb posted:

 

 

That is a rather fine analysis of development directions for analogue and digital and makes a lot of sense to me.

If, for a moment, we accept that the next phase of upgrades will be trickle up advances from the new Uniti range to the Classic streamers, I have been idly speculating how this might be achieved with the minimum of annoyance to us ND owners from potential redundancy, or an enforced box upgrade.

Historically, Naim have been pretty good in this area, providing upgrades within the same box where possible, for example DR upgrades. Agreed, there are occasions where kit and the technology they rely on gets so out of date, or is so in need of refreshing, the only course of action is a full box upgrade like the Uniti range - particularly the Core product. So I am wondering (or is that hoping) if the speculated update to the ND streamer range could be archived by component upgrades. I do realise that the entire streaming platform has moved on so such an upgrade might require your ND box to go on a trip to Salisbury. Or am I deluding myself?

I remember owning Arcam CDPs and DVD players and the manufacturer made it possible to benefit from an internal DAC upgrade merely by a visit to a dealer and an exchange of one PCB. I wonder if this kind of upgrade might be possible with our current ND streamers.

Phil already posted yesterday, but I can't remember when exactly and haven't looked for it again, where he explained all the hardware reasons why ND streamers couldn't be updated to the new platform by factory upgrades.  I would have thought that one or more new streamers or streamer preamps based on the new platform were dead certs for sometime in the next year though.

best

David

I can't find Phil's post you refer to. Would you mind pointing it out to me.

Sorry to be a pain.

Emre posted:

i am classic guy no shopping for me

Same here, nothing aimed at me. 

Looks like some nice products though

Nigel

Sorry I can't seem to find it either now.  I've read so much in the last couple of days, it's all getting rather a muddle in my mind!

best

David

David Hendon posted:

Nigel

Sorry I can't seem to find it either now.  I've read so much in the last couple of days, it's all getting rather a muddle in my mind!

best

David

That's fine, I know the feeling, there is lots to get to grips with. I am being rather selfish and even more hopeful that my NDS will be upgradable to the new platform, but the more I think about it, the more unrealistic it seems.

Phil I know you not allowed to speculate on the future but are you able to say if ND streamers are likely to be upgradable or is the new platform so fundamentally different as to make his impossible.

tonym posted:

Richer Sounds.

I went into a Richer Sounds in Eton last time I was last back in the UK, it was much better and very different to the 'Del Boys' version I was use to in my youth...  where I bought Cable Talk 3 for my first hifi speakers - which I'm sure it's cut from similar cloth to NACA5

For power/consumption standards, the place to look to is California.  They will be leading the way on reducing 'vampire devices' power use ( think phone/tablet chargers ) and standby use.

As this is the first of a new generation of machines built on an entirely new digital platform then the key thing for me in terms of whether I am going to part with my money on the new Nova is whether the new amplifier section is DR'd and able to keep up with the latest classic amps revamp in sonic terms.

If not then I can't see any sensible upgrade route from my Uniti2 until the inevitable visual revamp of the separates range occurs or until there is some reassurance given that the 'look' of the classic range will be compatible with the intended implementation of the separates version of this new approach. I'd take a guarantee that the classic amps could be simply rehoused in a compatible housing in the future.

I can't be the only person worried about the visual acceptance problems that may be coming? It's one of the reasons why an all-in-one was so appealing. If the Nova gets me most of the way towards a 272/250 DR then that would be my preferred upgrade as I don't want multiple boxes if they can be avoided.

nigelb posted:

David Hendon posted:

Nigel

Sorry I can't seem to find it either now.  I've read so much in the last couple of days, it's all getting rather a muddle in my mind!

best

David

That's fine, I know the feeling, there is lots to get to grips with. I am being rather selfish and even more hopeful that my NDS will be upgradable to the new platform, but the more I think about it, the more unrealistic it seems.

Phil I know you not allowed to speculate on the future but are you able to say if ND streamers are likely to be upgradable or is the new platform so fundamentally different as to make his impossible.

I'm pretty certain Phil has already said in this thread that it will not be possible to upgrade the classic streamers, even with a factory refit

fred40 posted:

Phil Harris posted:

Mark R posted:

Could Core get the streaming platform? That would be ideal

Core is ripping and serving only...

Phil

Would be a good thing though to implement a streamer.

We have - that's the Atom, Star and Nova ... or are you meaning a standalone source component like an ND5XS / NDX / NDS? Remember this is all Uniti series products...

Phil

Phil Harris posted:

fred40 posted:

Phil Harris posted:

Mark R posted:

Could Core get the streaming platform? That would be ideal

Core is ripping and serving only...

Phil

Would be a good thing though to implement a streamer.

We have - that's the Atom, Star and Nova ... or are you meaning a standalone source component like an ND5XS / NDX / NDS? Remember this is all Uniti series products...

Phil

...for now (that sounds like).

G

Penarth Blues posted:

nigelb posted:

David Hendon posted:

Nigel

Sorry I can't seem to find it either now.  I've read so much in the last couple of days, it's all getting rather a muddle in my mind!

best

David

That's fine, I know the feeling, there is lots to get to grips with. I am being rather selfish and even more hopeful that my NDS will be upgradable to the new platform, but the more I think about it, the more unrealistic it seems.

Phil I know you not allowed to speculate on the future but are you able to say if ND streamers are likely to be upgradable or is the new platform so fundamentally different as to make his impossible.

I'm pretty certain Phil has already said in this thread that it will not be possible to upgrade the classic streamers, even with a factory refit

I'm fairly certain that I haven't said that anywhere up here yet but existing Uniti units cannot be "upgraded" to the new platform and this is a new version of teh Uniti range not the ND or NAC-N range.

Any discussions of anything that may or may not happen to other products in the future are off the table for the reasons that I always give you whenever you ask me about anything that there haven't been any announcements on - no one has even said that the existing ND / NAC-N 'source component' platform is going to be updated...

Phil

Penarth Blues posted:

As this is the first of a new generation of machines built on an entirely new digital platform then the key thing for me in terms of whether I am going to part with my money on the new Nova is whether the new amplifier section is DR'd and able to keep up with the latest classic amps revamp in sonic terms.

If not then I can't see any sensible upgrade route from my Uniti2 until the inevitable visual revamp of the separates range occurs or until there is some reassurance given that the 'look' of the classic range will be compatible with the intended implementation of the separates version of this new approach. I'd take a guarantee that the classic amps could be simply rehoused in a compatible housing in the future.

I can't be the only person worried about the visual acceptance problems that may be coming? It's one of the reasons why an all-in-one was so appealing. If the Nova gets me most of the way towards a 272/250 DR then that would be my preferred upgrade as I don't want multiple boxes if they can be avoided.

I think your expectations regarding the amps in these units are likely to prove a little optimistic. The Star and Nova can both be upgraded with an external power amp, like the current Uniti and SU. I doubt they have DR, or the ability to get you most of the way to a 250DR. The digital side, on the other hand, appears to be where most of the developments have been made, and maybe this is where they will excel compared to the current streamers.  

ChrisSU posted:

Penarth Blues posted:

As this is the first of a new generation of machines built on an entirely new digital platform then the key thing for me in terms of whether I am going to part with my money on the new Nova is whether the new amplifier section is DR'd and able to keep up with the latest classic amps revamp in sonic terms.

If not then I can't see any sensible upgrade route from my Uniti2 until the inevitable visual revamp of the separates range occurs or until there is some reassurance given that the 'look' of the classic range will be compatible with the intended implementation of the separates version of this new approach. I'd take a guarantee that the classic amps could be simply rehoused in a compatible housing in the future.

I can't be the only person worried about the visual acceptance problems that may be coming? It's one of the reasons why an all-in-one was so appealing. If the Nova gets me most of the way towards a 272/250 DR then that would be my preferred upgrade as I don't want multiple boxes if they can be avoided.

I think your expectations regarding the amps in these units are likely to prove a little optimistic. The Star and Nova can both be upgraded with an external power amp, like the current Uniti and SU. I doubt they have DR, or the ability to get you most of the way to a 250DR. The digital side, on the other hand, appears to be where most of the developments have been made, and maybe this is where they will excel compared to the current streamers.  

I agree with you, so it leaves a peculiar moment in time where the upgrade path (250 DR say) is visually incompatible with the new series. This clearly will not last forever but does mean that to upgrade would either mean committing to a style and format whose days appear numbered (i.e. all Classic series), or just wait to see what Naim intend to do next with the styling. I know they prefer to say nothing but in this case that's also what I and many others will probably do until clarity is achieved.

This is not a problem for Naim I don't think as I believe the new range will sell in its bucketloads.

ChrisSU posted:

Penarth Blues posted:

As this is the first of a new generation of machines built on an entirely new digital platform then the key thing for me in terms of whether I am going to part with my money on the new Nova is whether the new amplifier section is DR'd and able to keep up with the latest classic amps revamp in sonic terms.

If not then I can't see any sensible upgrade route from my Uniti2 until the inevitable visual revamp of the separates range occurs or until there is some reassurance given that the 'look' of the classic range will be compatible with the intended implementation of the separates version of this new approach. I'd take a guarantee that the classic amps could be simply rehoused in a compatible housing in the future.

I can't be the only person worried about the visual acceptance problems that may be coming? It's one of the reasons why an all-in-one was so appealing. If the Nova gets me most of the way towards a 272/250 DR then that would be my preferred upgrade as I don't want multiple boxes if they can be avoided.

I think your expectations regarding the amps in these units are likely to prove a little optimistic. The Star and Nova can both be upgraded with an external power amp, like the current Uniti and SU. I doubt they have DR, or the ability to get you most of the way to a 250DR. The digital side, on the other hand, appears to be where most of the developments have been made, and maybe this is where they will excel compared to the current streamers.  

The amp section is based on NAIT I assume based on info on Naim's web site. 

Phil Harris posted:

Penarth Blues posted:

nigelb posted:

David Hendon posted:

Nigel

Sorry I can't seem to find it either now.  I've read so much in the last couple of days, it's all getting rather a muddle in my mind!

best

David

That's fine, I know the feeling, there is lots to get to grips with. I am being rather selfish and even more hopeful that my NDS will be upgradable to the new platform, but the more I think about it, the more unrealistic it seems.

Phil I know you not allowed to speculate on the future but are you able to say if ND streamers are likely to be upgradable or is the new platform so fundamentally different as to make his impossible.

I'm pretty certain Phil has already said in this thread that it will not be possible to upgrade the classic streamers, even with a factory refit

I'm fairly certain that I haven't said that anywhere up here yet but existing Uniti units cannot be "upgraded" to the new platform and this is a new version of teh Uniti range not the ND or NAC-N range.

Any discussions of anything that may or may not happen to other products in the future are off the table for the reasons that I always give you whenever you ask me about anything that there haven't been any announcements on - no one has even said that the existing ND / NAC-N 'source component' platform is going to be updated...

Phil

You are right, no one has said ND / NAC-N component platform is going to be updated. It is just idle speculation from some of us forumites. I realise it is unfair to expect you to comment on this also. I was simply responding to those that said you had pronounced on the upgradabilty of the current ND range when clearly you have not, for good reason.

Well at least there is no flat out denial of the potential upgradabilty of the current ND streamers which gives me (as a NDS owner) a tiny glimmer of hope but I am not going to get too excited quite yet.

Phil Harris posted:

Penarth Blues posted:

nigelb posted:

David Hendon posted:

Nigel

Sorry I can't seem to find it either now.  I've read so much in the last couple of days, it's all getting rather a muddle in my mind!

best

David

That's fine, I know the feeling, there is lots to get to grips with. I am being rather selfish and even more hopeful that my NDS will be upgradable to the new platform, but the more I think about it, the more unrealistic it seems.

Phil I know you not allowed to speculate on the future but are you able to say if ND streamers are likely to be upgradable or is the new platform so fundamentally different as to make his impossible.

I'm pretty certain Phil has already said in this thread that it will not be possible to upgrade the classic streamers, even with a factory refit

I'm fairly certain that I haven't said that anywhere up here yet but existing Uniti units cannot be "upgraded" to the new platform and this is a new version of teh Uniti range not the ND or NAC-N range.

Any discussions of anything that may or may not happen to other products in the future are off the table for the reasons that I always give you whenever you ask me about anything that there haven't been any announcements on - no one has even said that the existing ND / NAC-N 'source component' platform is going to be updated...

Phil

Hi Phil

Thank you for the reply and sorry for misremembering an earlier post of yours. I can't be bothered to go and try and find the actual post amongst the hundreds of posts in this thread.

I understand your say nothing policy and respect it. It doesn't bother me either way as it simply puts my potential upgrade plans on hold until clarity is provided. Naturally you won't provide that clarity without a replacement product otherwise you'll lose sales of the existing range, but I'd guess most people considering spending significant sums of money on HiFi will do some research to try and prevent their purchase being obsolete too quickly.

I think there's not much research to be done when it is clear that the new Uniti represents both a fundamental platform and visual change to the Naim brand, and that the underlying platform will eventually find its way into the higher end products once you've recouped some investment at the lower end, and while you refine the sound to provide the upgrade in performance you are hoping the new platform will bring.

I guess that the amount of cannibalisation of the upper end of the Naim offering that occurs will depend on how good the feeds from the new Uniti range into Classic range amps turn out to be when people start listening to them.

The presales demand that appears to be going on for the new kit is excellent news for the company, and I hope you continue to go from strength to strength.

The debate about Naim's decision to release what they have just announced seems rather pointless, and in some cases levels criticism at Naim that seems quite unfounded. Whilst I haven't followed Naim's product evolution for more than a couple of years I cannot say for certain, but from my awareness of the ranges and recent evolution, it seems likely that there will often have been updates or replacements for products that have appealed more to some people and less to others, with a time spacing between releases in any particular category or range inevitably dependant upon the amount of R&D required, availability of resources and the company's judgement of what sector is either overdue or is likely to have good marketability.

i don't doubt that having just made a vast step forward with the Uniti range the next steps will be somewhere else - and undoubtedly already under internal development as all the R&D for the new Unity range will have completed long before they were ready to release them.

If I were to bother guessing I'd go for something in the streaming and/or DAC category above the Uniti range, for a range of reasons, e.g. it will be evident to Naim that they have been losing sales to competitors in this category in recent times, and computer power continues to develop rapidly meaning that what was the ultimate state of the art only 5 years ago is entry level now, so they can have a much more platform at their fingertips, as well as many more years of programming development. And aside from that, as others have pointed out the amplification range has only recently been DR'd, while I suspect that analogue amps have reached a maturity that they are unlikely to progress much further.