Introducing Uniti, our revolutionary new streaming platform.

nbpf posted:

Will Core users be able to run MinimServer on the device?

I think Phil's post of yesterday, where he answers your earlier questions about this, explains very clearly that the Core won't run third party applications. So that's a "no" as far as I can see.

best

David

David Hendon posted:

nbpf posted:

Will Core users be able to run MinimServer on the device?

I think Phil's post of yesterday, where he answers your earlier questions about this, explains very clearly that the Core won't run third party applications. So that's a "no" as far as I can see.

best

David

Exactly. If they are serious about keeping it simple for the user and convincing more people that streaming can be pretty close to a fit-it-and-forget-it experience, then having any kind of user configuratable services, apps or OS is going to be stricly off the cards. In that respect, don't expect a wild divergence from the current US philosophy. If anything, an even simpler experience.

feeling_zen posted:

David Hendon posted:

nbpf posted:

Will Core users be able to run MinimServer on the device?

I think Phil's post of yesterday, where he answers your earlier questions about this, explains very clearly that the Core won't run third party applications. So that's a "no" as far as I can see.

best

David

Exactly. If they are serious about keeping it simple for the user and convincing more people that streaming can be pretty close to a fit-it-and-forget-it experience, then having any kind of user configuratable services, apps or OS is going to be stricly off the cards. In that respect, don't expect a wild divergence from the current US philosophy. If anything, an even simpler experience.

What he said...

Phil

nbpf posted:

Phil, are you saying that Naim has developed a Core specific Linux kernel? Best, nbpf

Hi nbpf,

No - as I am sure that you are aware there is more to the OS on any product than just the "kernel".

Best Regards

Phil

Tariqv posted:

Hello Phil,

I had been interested in a US for some time due to its positive influence on SQ in my system; however have refrained from purchasing due to its high cost, relative to other upgrades such as Powerline, Fraim etc.

My two questions regarding this product now that it is refreshed and cheaper to buy;

1- Does US/Core really improve the sound feeding an NDX as compared to a NAS feeding NDX? If your answer is yes, would the Core further improve on the SQ benefit of US?

Hi,

The UnitiServe and the Core are intended to be a straightforward ripping and serving solution that is designed to obtain the best quality rips from your CD and provide a best quality UPnP server solution for delivering those files to our streamers.

It is possible to roll-your-own solutions for both ripping and serving and there are endless debates as to which rippers are more accurate or which servers "sound best" but we believe that our rippers and servers are at the very top end of the performance scale (and this appears to be born out by the feedback that we get too) so we believe that the Naim Music Servers overall will provide the best quality possible (and a seamless experience).

Tariqv posted:

2- Are you planning to introduce a pure streamer, rather than NDX (streamer + DAC)  or N-272 (Streamer + DAC + preamp), since having an NDX yet adding an Ndac or any other DAC seems like a waste of money to me?

Unfortunately I would not be able to enter into any discussions relating to future products or future product development - creating a streamer that didn't have a DAC in it may initially seem logical if your intention from the outset is to use that as a basic digital transport however it would mean that the market for that specific product is then immediately and inherently limited and as such may then not be financially viable to manufacture.

Phil

feeling_zen posted:

David Hendon posted:

nbpf posted:

Will Core users be able to run MinimServer on the device?

I think Phil's post of yesterday, where he answers your earlier questions about this, explains very clearly that the Core won't run third party applications. So that's a "no" as far as I can see.

best

David

Exactly. If they are serious about keeping it simple for the user and convincing more people that streaming can be pretty close to a fit-it-and-forget-it experience, then having any kind of user configuratable services, apps or OS is going to be stricly off the cards. In that respect, don't expect a wild divergence from the current US philosophy. If anything, an even simpler experience.

I do not think that easy usage and customizability are mutually exclusive. On the contrary, devices that lack flexibility and customizability are often awkward to use. Best, nbpf

You can have flexibility customisation and low support cost. Or rather you can have two of three 

If the Core is designed primarily as a server for the streamers - i.e. something which can be hidden upstairs in a cupboard like a NAS etc - why waste cost making it a design classic?

And if it is intended to be integrated into one's main system rack, as a CD player/server into a DAC - why bother with streamers?

I mean, I can understand one or the other....

Salmon Dave posted:

If the Core is designed primarily as a server for the streamers - i.e. something which can be hidden upstairs in a cupboard like a NAS etc - why waste cost making it a design classic?

And if it is intended to be integrated into one's main system rack, as a CD player/server into a DAC - why bother with streamers?

I mean, I can understand one or the other....

The UnitiServe was never intended to be a CD player, its primary function to rip CDs and serve files to a streamer. I am working on the assumption that the Core has the same primary functions and is not intended to go in a HiFi rack. Indeed, being a somewhat noisy (electronically) beast it should be moved away from your HiFi rack IMHO. The addition of a proper power supply inside the Core does however help matters.

As for the money spent on the design I guess this was spread across the whole of the new Uniti range and you would expect the Core aesthetics to be in keeping with the new range.

Phil Harris posted:

...

The UnitiServe and the Core are intended to be a straightforward ripping and serving solution that is designed to obtain the best quality rips from your CD and provide a best quality UPnP server solution for delivering those files to our streamers.

...

I understand the approach behind the UnitiServe and the Core but I frankly doubt that the notions of "best quality rips" and "best quality UPnP server" make very much sense in this context.

Naim users are different and needs are fundamentally individual. I would not consider a UPnP server that does not support user-specific indexing a "best quality UPnP server", for instance.

One can of course try to design a solution which is "best quality" for the average user. But I'm afraid that one needs to be Apple to be successful with this approach.

Best, nbpf

Phil Harris posted:

...

What he said...

Phil

Thanks for the clarification! Best, nbpf

Salmon Dave posted:

If the Core is designed primarily as a server for the streamers - i.e. something which can be hidden upstairs in a cupboard like a NAS etc - why waste cost making it a design classic?

And if it is intended to be integrated into one's main system rack, as a CD player/server into a DAC - why bother with streamers?

I mean, I can understand one or the other....

It does either, whichever you want, hence increasing the size of the potential market and hence a viable profit-making proposition for Naim.

I have a US presently not a Core obviously but I like it on the rack alongside the rest, not least because it's easier to pop a CD in for ripping. It makes no noise I can hear because the rack is in a side room and it serves music to all my Naim streamers around the house.

i don't want to run other upnp servers, operating systems, widgets or anything else on it and I don't want it to stream Tidal, Spotify or whatever either. So actually really the present US and the new Core strike me as just about right.

best

David

nigelb posted:

Salmon Dave posted:

If the Core is designed primarily as a server for the streamers - i.e. something which can be hidden upstairs in a cupboard like a NAS etc - why waste cost making it a design classic?

And if it is intended to be integrated into one's main system rack, as a CD player/server into a DAC - why bother with streamers?

I mean, I can understand one or the other....

The UnitiServe was never intended to be a CD player, its primary function to rip CDs and serve files to a streamer. I am working on the assumption that the Core has the same primary functions and is not intended to go in a HiFi rack. Indeed, being a somewhat noisy (electronically) beast it should be moved away from your HiFi rack IMHO.

...

I understand that, in much the same way as the UnitiServe, the Core is (a ripping station and) both a UPnP server and a file player. Otherwise the BNC s/pdif connector would make very little sense. Thus, I would expect the core to be designed to be, among others, an ideal source for a DAC with s/pdif inputs. If this was not the case -- be it because of its size or because of its noisyness -- than the Core would indeed be a very puzzling product. 

nbpf posted:

Phil Harris posted:

...

The UnitiServe and the Core are intended to be a straightforward ripping and serving solution that is designed to obtain the best quality rips from your CD and provide a best quality UPnP server solution for delivering those files to our streamers.

...

I understand the approach behind the UnitiServe and the Core but I frankly doubt that the notions of "best quality rips" and "best quality UPnP server" make very much sense in this context.

Naim users are different and needs are fundamentally individual. I would not consider a UPnP server that does not support user-specific indexing a "best quality UPnP server", for instance.

One can of course try to design a solution which is "best quality" for the average user. But I'm afraid that one needs to be Apple to be successful with this approach.

Best, nbpf

I suspect Naim has a better idea of its customer base than you do. its not in the business of providing individualised solutions. If you want a turnkey solution, build it yourself. 

CORE blimey

Will the Core store WAV metadata in the same way as the Unitiserve or will provide a richer user experience? My dealer thinks it will be better.

Keith

Starting from UQ2 with its 30W rating, do you guys feel the 40W Atom would be enough for the 90dB 20.23? What about the 89dB PMC 25.22?  I would pretty much like to accommodate one of these kits in my office. Thank you.

nigelb posted:

 

....the Core has the same primary functions and is not intended to go in a HiFi rack. Indeed, being a somewhat noisy (electronically) beast it should be moved away from your HiFi rack IMHO. The addition of a proper power supply inside the Core does however help matters.

yes, in my setup the US is placed together with NAS drive etc in another room away from the main system. when i made this change sometime ago, i was surprised by the positive effect.

the better (hopefully) linear supply of the Core is of interest to me, but my US still works fine. It will be interesting to hear from first adopters who compare new with old.

enjoy

ken

Dan.S posted:

Starting from UQ2 with its 30W rating, do you guys feel the 40W Atom would be enough for the 90dB 20.23? What about the 89dB PMC 25.22?  I would pretty much like to accommodate one of these kits in my office. Thank you.

Yes,, it should drive those speakers very well.

My uq1 drives 84dbw atc scm11s to quite a robust level. But not quite enough to rock my iec listening room. Hence the addition of the 250dr

jon honeyball posted:

nbpf posted:

Phil Harris posted:

...

The UnitiServe and the Core are intended to be a straightforward ripping and serving solution that is designed to obtain the best quality rips from your CD and provide a best quality UPnP server solution for delivering those files to our streamers.

...

I understand the approach behind the UnitiServe and the Core but I frankly doubt that the notions of "best quality rips" and "best quality UPnP server" make very much sense in this context.

Naim users are different and needs are fundamentally individual. I would not consider a UPnP server that does not support user-specific indexing a "best quality UPnP server", for instance.

One can of course try to design a solution which is "best quality" for the average user. But I'm afraid that one needs to be Apple to be successful with this approach.

Best, nbpf

I suspect Naim has a better idea of its customer base than you do. its not in the business of providing individualised solutions. If you want a turnkey solution, build it yourself. 

I have no doubts that Naim has a better idea of its customer base than I do! I very much doubt that Naim is not in the business of providing flexible and customizable solutions, its range of hardware products -- from all in one devices to separates -- speaks for itself. I understand that Naim is not interested in providing the same kind of flexibility when it comes to software solutions and, as many other contributors to this forum, I have setup a music server that fulfills my needs. This is no rocket science and examples based on mac mini, Audirvana and USB2s/pdif bridges or on dedicated Linux distributions are well documented, among others in this forum. They allow users to implement integrated solutions with support for internet streaming services and customizable indexing at costs comparable with that of a Core. UPnP servers like MinimServer support browsing a music collection according to user-specific tags. This allows users not only to "re-imagine" but to actually re-organize and browse their music collections according to their specific needs. I was hoping that the Core would support such solutions but, given what I have learned so far about the new server, I have to agree with HH assessment: nothing to be really excited about.

james n posted:

Looks like we are progressing quickly through the 5 stages of new Naim product introduction to the forum.

Anticipation, Disappointment, Anger, Acceptance, Purchase 

Lots of passion from Naim enthusiast's on this long winded thread.

My passion being centered around DIY single ended triode amps & high efficient speakers and have experienced equally spirited discussion's when something new comes along. On the surface my audio philosophy appears 180 degrees out of phase with Naim's audio lineup ... nevertheless here I am. 

I arrived accidentally by hearing a Muso at an Apple Store waiting for a friend to purchase a new iPhone after losing his at CES 2016. My iPhone just happened to be full of fresh DSD files from an Onkyo rep along with the new Onkyo HF Player App. He explained if I purchased the new Apple MD821AM/A Lightning to USB Camera Adapter my iPhone could natively stream these DSD files to a USB DAC ... man on a mission.

This bit of news intrigued the audiophile Apple store manager (I know how unlikely) to acquire the said adapter and give it a try into a Naim Muso. Boom!!!  A four piece jazz band suddenly appeared out of thin air inside the cavernous Apple Store. He explained to the store customers a temporary demo was in process. When the song ended a store wide applause erupted ... un f*#*ing believable!  

Fast forward 10 months, my Muso performing daily as a TV speaker and nightly as a Tidal jukebox. My passion for 'new music' now in full bloom I arrive at RMAF 2016 looking to bridge the gap between my re-discovered music passion an my DIY audio hobby.  

What do I find ...

The Naim Uniti Atom & Core ... Boom!!!

Phil Harris posted:

nbpf posted:

Phil, are you saying that Naim has developed a Core specific Linux kernel? Best, nbpf

Hi nbpf,

No - as I am sure that you are aware there is more to the OS on any product than just the "kernel".

Best Regards

Phil

Sure, I was not expecting Naim to have reimplemented parts of the kernel (but then, considering what Melco says about "audiphile grade" SSDs ... who knows?) but I was intrigued by your remark "... but the Linux core that is running on the Core (and the other products) cannot function outside of the Uniti hardware platform ...". Thanks for the precisation! Best, nbpf

nbpf posted:

Phil Harris posted:

nbpf posted:

Phil, are you saying that Naim has developed a Core specific Linux kernel? Best, nbpf

Hi nbpf,

No - as I am sure that you are aware there is more to the OS on any product than just the "kernel".

Best Regards

Phil

Sure, I was not expecting Naim to have reimplemented parts of the kernel (but then, considering what Melco says about "audiphile grade" SSDs ... who knows?) but I was intrigued by your remark "... but the Linux core that is running on the Core (and the other products) cannot function outside of the Uniti hardware platform ...". Thanks for the precisation! Best, nbpf

I'm second guessing Phil here, but I suspect the Linux kernel would be compiled for a specific set of hardware.  Also "Linux" is simply the kernel and for any system that has to be complemented with a suite of other utilities ... the correct term for (most) Linux operating systems is actually GNU/Linux to recognise the GNU utilities - everything from ls (to view a directory) and rm (to delete files) are typically from GNU.  Naim presumably select these as appropriate for the use and hardware.

Bill Allen-nice post, welcome to the wonderful world of Naim!