Supercap DR or 250DR upgrade on 282 to improve bass weight and soundstage?

you didn't mention any PSU on source, worth considering IMHO.

After demoing a 250 in your set-up.

I agree with Antonio. Following source first, an XPSDR on the NDX would be the way to go. However, the Fact 8 is far too much for the 200. They really want a 250 or better a 300. But that then makes the source too weak. So, assuming that you are set on the speakers, you want a bigger power amp followed by a power supply for your NDX. 

Antonio, thanks for your thoughts!
...and yes that's correct, because I thought the NDX already sounds great on its own. I have to admit that I have only heard a XPSDR in the following combo NDX/XPSDR/282/SCDR/300DR for like 10 minutes. Also 6 boxes is something I cannot accomodate atm. 4 boxes is my limit as of now and my tendency towards a SCDR or 250DR decision was mostly because many say that the SCDR is one of the best upgrades for the 282 and because I heard what a 250DR could do instead of a 200. So I didn't consider the XPS since my dealer and many other forum members say that the NDX/282/HCDR/250DR is a sweet spot combo in the classic range and very well balanced. I just didn't take a shot on the 250DR yet because I am still unsure what a SCDR can do instead in my room. Maybe I should ask my dealer to bring the XPSDR along to my home demo...

Hi Megge

I have done both in recent years (282 with 2*HC (not DR) to SCDR and 200 to 250 to 250DR)

I did the power supply upgrade first and it was very good indeed. I was however getting the 252 itch (which I scratched a couple of years back with a secondhand purchase / trade in) so the SCDR made sense from all angles.

The 250DR purchase was made about a year ago and I think it is the biggest single improvement I have ever made - but note I did have the 252 by then. I use a Chord Signature Array interconnect by the way and this was good as well compared to the supplied snaic.

You may note from above I had 2 HC's. Unlike a lot of people I found the addition of the second HC when I did it to be pretty good and noticeably different - greater sparkle I think sums it up. You might want to consider trying this and upgrading to a nearly new 250DR using the 200 as a trade in.

Just some thoughts.

Alan 

Alan Willby posted:

Hi Megge

I have done both in recent years (282 with 2*HC (not DR) to SCDR and 200 to 250 to 250DR)

I did the power supply upgrade first and it was very good indeed. I was however getting the 252 itch (which I scratched a couple of years back with a secondhand purchase / trade in) so the SCDR made sense from all angles.

The 250DR purchase was made about a year ago and I think it is the biggest single improvement I have ever made - but note I did have the 252 by then. I use a Chord Signature Array interconnect by the way and this was good as well compared to the supplied snaic.

You may note from above I had 2 HC's. Unlike a lot of people I found the addition of the second HC when I did it to be pretty good and noticeably different - greater sparkle I think sums it up. You might want to consider trying this and upgrading to a nearly new 250DR using the 200 as a trade in.

Just some thoughts.

Alan 

Megge

would argee with Alan - 250 DR first, have 282/HCDR/200 went to my dealer for a demo day - and tried all sorts of combo's - agree with source first but on the demo I had the 250DR made the most difference for the ££££££ - and I did really like the bear NDX with the 282/HCDR

the 200DR you don't need if you have a HCDR or SCDR  i think i am right in saying, and some have said 282 does not need a SC

so for me my next purchase will be the 250DR and a really nice balanced system with the NDX/282/HCDR/250DR

will be interested to see what you go for

Megge, take your time listening carefully that's my advice.

 To me a 282, no matter how far you go powering it, would not be my choice with any 200 you could think of. It's in a 250 based system it really shines.

Especially as your speakers may as well benefit even more than a 250, I sense you're somehow obliged.

As for source, well, it's a very worthwhile improvement, but it's a different matter .

thanks Hungryhalibut - in terms of power amp this was one of my first toughts whether a bigger amp would be the better choice. My dealer actually said that the NDX is fine to a level of 282/SCDR/250R but I have yet to hear if a XPS would bring great improvement with that setup.

Hi there,

I have gone an almost similar path, starting from the NAC 202 / NAP 200 to now NAC 282 / HCDR / NAP 250 DR.

Personally I believe it is a question of how much money you want to spend and how many boxes you want to end up with. You will certainly attain an improvement in sound quality with any of the options that you have listed above.

A note on the SCDR is it may open up the possibilities to the NAC 252. The SCDR will improve upon the HCDR in ways I am not sure of since I have not tried. However, if you do not have immediate or future plans for the NAC 252, personally I would just skip the SCDR. The temptation will be there once you have the SCDR in the system. If one's willpower is not strong enough, he will succumb to the temptation.

The NAP 250 DR seems to be a logical choice. Having said that, there are posts about the 250 DR sounding broken next to the 300 or 300 DR, and the 500 rendering the 300 to be equally broken. Again, it's a matter of managing expectations and the number of (additional) boxes that you can accommodate.

[@mention:1566878603991174] - the financial layout for a second HCDR is only a little less than for a SCDR cuz I can trade in my old 202 and HCDR. So I would get the SCDR over the HCDR. This still leaves the 200 which I could trade in for a new 250DR. I am currently looking if I can actually make the financial stretch to get both the SCDR and 250DR but then it seems my source is the bottleneck. In any case your first hand experience is more than valuable for me and highly appreciated!

[@mention:1566878604031561] and [@mention:1566878603936754] but speakers and room are different than my place. When I auditioned the fact.8 it was hooked up to Bryston gear BP26 / 3B3 and they really shined. My initial thought by then was that the 200 would work fine but as it seems the potential is not max out there. Looking forward to my home demo...

ryder. posted:

The NAP 250 DR seems to be a logical choice. Having said that, there are posts about the 250 DR sounding broken next to the 300 or 300 DR, and the 500 rendering the 300 to be equally broken. Again, it's a matter of managing expectations and the number of (additional) boxes that you can accommodate.

During my demo the 300DR was a big revelation compared to the 250DR, and by that time I even prefered the 200DR to the 250DR in that setup. As mentioned earlier the 300DR would be my first choice but too expensive whereas a s/h 300 for about 1/3 of the costs of a new 300DR would be available. Unfortunately I have never heard an "old" 300 so I would need to buy "blind". So from what has been suggested so far It seems that my fact.8 need much more juice to shine properly. Financially I would not want to go further than a new 250DR costs but with my trade in gear (202/HCDR/200) the costs for a SCDR or 250DR are considerably less.

In terms of box count I could go one more full width. Hicaps I could accomodate two.

The 250Dr certainly didn't sound broken against the 300dr to me and I prefered it to either of the older non dr amps when I heard them all back to back

is it in generally advisable to go for a non-DR 300? I mean it has been there for a long time and many seem to be satisfied until the DR tech came out... which from my point of view does not make the "old" 300 a bad one, does it?

Megge, I thought you wanted to keep your box count down. The 300 comes with a separate power supply so will take you over your ideal 4 box maximum even more so if you're thinking of eventually getting a PSU for your streamer.

If I was limited to a four box solution (and I'll apologise to Antonio here because I know he disagrees) with those speakers, it would be 272, XPSDR, 300DR. To me, based on what I've heard, the 272/XPS is just as good as the NDX/282/Hicap/napsc. Two boxes instead of four, one mains lead instead of three, no Hiline, no redundancy, decent volume control. Just add a power amp. Of course, everyone with a 282 and NDX will disagree, but do the dem. 

Don't let anyone try to convince you that the 300 DR makes the non DR 300 "sound broken".

I had one quite happily for years, and it was only after hearing the DR version in my system, together with an advantageous deal in trading in, that I changed to the DR.

If you can pick up a 300 at a good price, then by all means go for it, it's still a fine amp, (the best value for money in the range, IMHO), and the DR upgrade can come later, (or not).

[@mention:17757776931519664] - i currently have 3 boxes ndx/282/200 and hcdr on a separate shelf. So i could go for a 300 and get rid of the 200. But that somewhat leaves me wonder if the 300 is over the top for my setup?

Regards M

The 300 will simply bring out the best in your NDX / 282, and will continue to do so should you eventually decide to upgrade either.

It really is a quite wonderful amp.

There was a short period of time thinking of a move to a 272. So I had a demo at my dealer's around 1 1/2 years ago or so with 272/200 vs ND5XS/202/200 through Neat 4i and thought the latter was better by a small margin in terms of detail. Then swapped the ND5 for a NDX which put the gap a bit wider in terms transparency and bass response. After that a 282 has been significantly better to my ears. Only the addition of a XPS raised it for me to the NDX/282/200 level from what I have gathered during that listening session. I have not heard any 250 version until then.

Megge, in a sense, the next level in the right contest makes any lesser electronic sound 'broken'. 

But so does any piece of equipment which allows a PSU.

Anyway I 'd never say a nait5 sounds broken per se, so doesn't a nap 200, etc.

Have a plan on mind as SC would let you make a lot of changes.

I'd say your priority is to find the best way to make those speakers sing, just try a 250 at home, your upstream is already very good.

Megge posted:

[@mention:17757776931519664] - i currently have 3 boxes ndx/282/200 and hcdr on a separate shelf. So i could go for a 300 and get rid of the 200. But that somewhat leaves me wonder if the 300 is over the top for my setup?

Regards M

If you can afford and accommodate the 300, then I'd agree with others here that you should go for it. I must admit that I had a hard time deciding between the 300DR and the 250DR before choosing the latter partly on the basis of box count (5 boxes instead of 6 with the 300) as well as listening room size. Still very happy with my "broken" 250DR.  

I just want to add, I'm not against 272 it is a good piece of equipment for many reasons  , but with a 282 I wouldn't consider it at all. Also I know a guy who has now 282/HCDR/300 and found the latter the best move ever (he had a 250.2). He didn't consider the move to 252 as discouraged by the word of it possibly  sounding mellower. So he tried 552 and got overwhelmed.  

But his source is 555Dr-ed. 

Megge Posted

My dealer actually said that the NDX is fine to a level of 282/SCDR/250R but I have yet to hear if a XPS would bring great improvement with that setup.

I listened to the above during a demo earlier in the year adding a XPS power supply to the NDX took the system to another level I was surprised at the difference better bass everything just seemed more controlled well worth a demo.

If you are going to stay with the 282 and not upgrade to the 252 I would listen with the HCDR and they add the XPS to the NDX I think you will be suprised.

I would really question to yourself if the box count is your main limitation, as it also limits you in the option. While I agree with all remarks about the 300 being in another league. I would suggest a slightly different path.

1. Power your NDX with and XPS DR

2. Get yourself the 250 DR

I would argue that the 300 only comes to full fruition with a strengthened source and pre-amp. So the suggested upgrades would be a step in between with all options open.

In case you can get the xps and a pre-loved 300 you would be in for a win win win scenario.....

If box count is an issue you could always chuck a Hugo on the NDX ��