2 x NAP500DR service+upgrade...

Bloody good with the words ain't ya DB 

Much respect.

So basically you have a group of thin, unrelaxed musicians then? 

sad isn't it?

hope you are well Graham and the NAC S1 is in top form.

enjoy

ken

Darke Bear posted:

 

You know what you hear Ken - and I'm interested to hear if you think things are a lot better by week 3-4. Then there is more to arrive later!

DB.

thanks Gary -- its all mellowing very nicely -- and subtle changes are getting more or more evident - so i dont know whether i will notice any 'step change' at some point, especially as i am listening to the system most of the time. But mirroring your experience, i look forward to how it all develops over the next 4 weeks, 12 weeks? my patience will be truly tested...

enjoy

ken

It sounds like the newly fettled beasts are settling down Ken. I just checked my diary and was astonished to discover that I've had my DR'500 for eight months. Ergo - it sounds 'normal'.

Casting my mind back, I do recall a 'less is more' thing happening, or a sense of the electronics getting out of the way of the music. So yes; as Gary says - a more organic and natural sound in simple terms.

I reckon the DR'd amp took the best part of six months to achieve its full potential, so enjoy the ride. The big unpleasant bumps in the road passed in the first few weeks for me, but of course two amps in an active rig will inevitably open the window wider.

John.

"thanks Gary -- its all mellowing very nicely"

That made me chuckle Ken - thinking that's what we need - a tone control setting marked 'Mellow', which I have on my 1950 model Pye table wireless.

John.

J.N. posted:

It sounds like the newly fettled beasts are settling down Ken. I just checked my diary and was astonished to discover that I've had my DR'500 for eight months. Ergo - it sounds 'normal'.

Casting my mind back, I do recall a 'less is more' thing happening, or a sense of the electronics getting out of the way of the music. So yes; as Gary says - a more organic and natural sound in simple terms.

I reckon the DR'd amp took the best part of six months to achieve its full potential, so enjoy the ride. The big unpleasant bumps in the road passed in the first few weeks for me, but of course two amps in an active rig will inevitably open the window wider.

John.

yes, i believe they are John -- at least to the extent that i can sense some subtle but significant changes since installation. ordinarily, the fact that its definitely not 100% would have me constantly inspecting the cables to make sure they are all free and not touching -- you know the usual neurosis. but this time around, other than pulling the Geddon power lead away from the SL 552/NDS IC (which Andy in fact suggested just as a precaution), i haven't needed to make any after installation adjustments. This is good as it means that any positive changes i pick up over time must then be due to run-in mostly.

8 months!!! Lucky you John.. "time flies when you are having fun".

i know the road ahead for me will likely be a bit bumpy -- but "been there, done that"... Lets see how the amps recover from the extensive surgery...

enjoy

ken

J.N. posted:

"thanks Gary -- its all mellowing very nicely"

That made me chuckle Ken - thinking that's what we need - a tone control setting marked 'Mellow', which I have on my 1950 model Pye table wireless.

John.

Wow! perhaps that's what we need John --  

enjoy

ken

one thing i have noticed about the 500 head units is that they are running a lot cooler than before -- even when driven hard -- i assume this is one effect of the DR upgrade?

enjoy...

ken

well, its week 2 today! there have been some noticeable changes -- but we are not 'there' yet.

The "thinness/reedyness" is more or less gone -- or at least i am not as aware of it as i was last week.

The sound is still somewhat edgy -- especially higher frequencies.

but there is some very positive development -- in terms of tonality. Its now a lot fuller. I am now picking up the wooden resonance from e.g. a piano and its an extremely "real" experience -- enhancing "presence", "involvement" and "emotional content".

the extra clarity that i picked up straight from cold is still very evident -- but now is very apparent in the context of "real" instrument tonality.

Hopefully the "edginess" will continue to decay -- but i would not be surprised if there was another surprise(!) at week 3.

enjoy...

ken

ken c posted:

well, its week 2 today! there have been some noticeable changes -- but we are not 'there' yet.

The "thinness/reedyness" is more or less gone -- or at least i am not as aware of it as i was last week.

The sound is still somewhat edgy -- especially higher frequencies.

but there is some very positive development -- in terms of tonality. Its now a lot fuller. I am now picking up the wooden resonance from e.g. a piano and its an extremely "real" experience -- enhancing "presence", "involvement" and "emotional content".

the extra clarity that i picked up straight from cold is still very evident -- but now is very apparent in the context of "real" instrument tonality.

Hopefully the "edginess" will continue to decay -- but i would not be surprised if there was another surprise(!) at week 3.

enjoy...

ken

After all the discussion on another thread of how difficult it is to describe aural experiences, I think you have done a fine job.

Glad to hear the DR'd 500s are settling in and reading others' experiences of this wonderful mod, you have much more to come.

thanks Nigel. its an interesting journey that's for sure and i am really looking fwd to more surprises and the run-in evolves.

enjoy...

ken

Looking good Ken. Enjoy!

thanks Minh !

enjoy...

ken

One more week and all will be a lot better Ken.

One can't necessarily extrapolate any general rules of run-in progression from one system to another, but what you describe is similar to my run-in with Active systems exposing all.

There are episodes of an unfolding 'edge' associated with another lower-level of fine detail emerging - then it properly emerges and the edge disappears and becomes fuller and 'nicer'.

This proceeds every several days and gradually works down to lower and lower levels of detail - each appears with an edge at first and then the edge goes.

The first few days and weeks it is at a high level and more unpleasant, then over the weeks it becomes lower and lower down to the quieter details and less annoying while the edge is present - then it is run-in.

This is how I hear it with DR and SL cables.

My DR 500 is still improving and sounding rather nicely smooth and richer-textured.

DB.

thanks DB. very interesting explanation -- makes sense. lets see what other "edges" emerge and melt away over the period running up to week 3. i wasnt expecting the opening up to better and fuller tonality with truer instrument resonances this past week --so that was a pleasant surprise. helps focus attention away from the up and down edginess//overtightness.

lets see/hear what more surprises are around the corner...

enjoy...

ken

Week 3:

I would say this third week has been somewhat ‘eventful’.  The system has been rather "variable"  -- beyond the variability that we associate with active systems in general.

The tonality is still pleasantly ‘full’ and ‘true’. So it remains a lot easier to identify individual instruments and musical lines in a mix than before the DR upgrade.

However, over last Sunday and Monday – the system was sounding very strange – the only way I can describe it is that dynamic contrasts seemed wrong – the loud bits sounded really loud – such that I couldn’t play any source (NAT01, NDS and LP12) past nine o’clock. It wasn’t unpleasant but sounded uncomfortable – the sort of sound that brings one neurosis and has one looking behind the racks to see if all cables are free and loose. They were. So I satisfied myself that this was probably just the ‘roller-coaster ride’ I had been warned about.

Then last Tuesday, Bach B Minor Mass was playing on radio 3 on my NAT01 -  I was more or less forced to stop working and listen. This time the system was sounding dynamically correct and seriously enjoyable – and I found I could very comfortably play beyond 10 o’clock without any discomfort. I tested this with NDS and LP12 as well – the later was frighteningly good when I played Bob Dylan’s “Tell Tale Signs” – never heard it sounding this good before!!

I thought to myself – well, perhaps this is the end of the run-in?

Not too fast – the variability came back. And its been like that and also a little bit dull and not as “inviting” – even though I can still pick up the analytical  improvements to-date, (fuller tone, clearer nuances, etc) but the system is nowhere near as “drawing”, “dark” and “liquidly flowing” as it sounded like last Tuesday – when it sounded really “inky black”. Now you could say it now sounds a bit “(inky?) grey” .... :-)

After experiencing how it sounded like last Tuesday (and I swear I have never heard my system sound THAT good before!), it is of course a bit disappointing for the system to go off as it has done.

BUT, its not time to slash wrists yet – the underlying trend is definitely up, i.e. “improving” -- and, judging by what I heard last Tuesday, with a lot more performance to come. I can sort of sense that the system is progressing steadily to something really rather special and I am looking forward to that – hopefully in the next couple of weeks.

In the meantime – I just need to be patient and accept all this bumpy ride as part of the settling down process -- something that comes with the territory...

Oh my, what fun(?)

Enjoy

ken

Thanks for the update Ken. Sounds promising. I found that the peaks and troughs became less pronounced as time passed. You should have a better and more consistent performance after a couple of months.

Good luck.

John.

J.N. posted:

Thanks for the update Ken. Sounds promising. I found that the peaks and troughs became less pronounced as time passed. You should have a better and more consistent performance after a couple of months.

Good luck.

John.

Thanks for chiming in John --- yeah -- i am hoping for more constancy during the next few weeks (hopefully) but i have a fairly good idea that things are heading in the right direction.

enjoy

ken

Ken, I hope this cheers you up:

Life is a series of natural and spontaneous changes. Do not resist them; that only creates sorrow. Let reality be reality. Let things flow naturally forward in whatever way they like.

thanks Minh.

it did. (i think...)

enjoy...

ken

Sensible words from Minh. I hope life is treating you and your loved ones well my friend.

All this flippin' angst over something for which we pay very handsomely, to give us pleasure ............ allegedly.

Ken - Whack on Bobby McFerrin 'Don't Worry, Be Happy'.

John.

J.N. posted:

Sensible words from Minh. I hope life is treating you and your loved ones well my friend.

All this flippin' angst over something for which we pay very handsomely, to give us pleasure ............ allegedly.

Ken - Whack on Bobby McFerrin 'Don't Worry, Be Happy'.

John.

I'm good John. I hope your visit to the opthalmologist went well.

Life has changed for me ever since I started studying acupuncture. It's all about qi/energy and I now realise that we are energetic beings (some may disagree but each to their own). I spend one day a week in clinic manipulating the movement of qi. In essence, I work on the subtle to influence the material.

My oh my, my 500 which will be DR'd and serviced is due back from the mothership over the next fortnight or so. Lots to look forward to and not look forward to initially. Currently have a newish 300 (non DR)  on loan from my great dealer. Despite a different presentation, I miss what my wheezy old 12yr 500 did in comparison to 300s which was more akin to my 135s before I made the leap to a traded in 500. So a rebuilt DR 500 should be amazing!

ayisgroovy posted:

My oh my, my 500 which will be DR'd and serviced is due back from the mothership over the next fortnight or so. Lots to look forward to and not look forward to initially. Currently have a newish 300 (non DR)  on loan from my great dealer. Despite a different presentation, I miss what my wheezy old 12yr 500 did in comparison to 300s which was more akin to my 135s before I made the leap to a traded in 500. So a rebuilt DR 500 should be amazing!

good luck. all will be well judging by others who use passive 500s. i suspect the active setup that i am running my bring in extra run-in challenges. last night my daughter burst into my office and said "wow, your system is sounding much better than last week" -- so i guess i am getting "there"

enjoy

ken

Thank you Ken C.  Judging from the number of inputs re 500DR upgrade, the wobbly journey to Nirvana is worth it!  I also spoke with the Naim guys at the recent Windsor show and got good advice to re-organise my stacking of units.  I have ordered longer legs (I use HiFi Racks) to allow my 500 to go on lowest shelf (was on top) and the rest is stacking PSs on one stack and Pre/power/source on the other.  It goes like this:

Left Stack                                       Right Hand Stack

NDS                                                500PS             

552 head                                        552PS

<space>                                         555PS (non DR, for NDS)

NAP500                                          555PS (DR, for NDS)

I was assured (encouraged) that this will give the units their best chance to shine as compared to my mixture of head units on top of PSs etc.

Fingers crossed!