NDX - Path to the top

Hi, I was using a NDX in a Olive based system and it was extremely good a very musical combination worth a try and I'm sure you won't be disappointed.

I would go 555PS on nDAC rather than second XPS on NDX. This only if you are at at 282/250 level or higher.   

Chag -

No mention of NDS? Meanwhile the new Uniti products have not yet been compared with the establiched Naim products, including as just a renderer, a store+renderer, or full streamer including DAC and store.

As for options with NDX, there are, I believe, a number of people who use NDX into DACs other than Naim, notably the brilliant Hugo: NDX seems to be widely regarded as a high quality renderer. Also there are higher level Chord DACs, the Hugo TT and Dave (the latter truly has  to be heard to believe, but not unless you can stretch to it!).

Meanwhile there are some other very good renderers, some of which are relatively inexpensive, and some of which remove the network from the equation by combining with music store - in oarticular if unfamiliar it may be worth searching out threads discussing Melco, MicroRendu, and Audirvana on Mac Mini, although in the case of the last two opinion in some cases is complicated by a lack of consistency in setup details.

NDX is software upgradable. Some earlier models may not have 192 kHz board - best check with Naim before you buy if you are uncertain.

As to sound improvements. To my ears from tests I've ran:

NDX > NDX + XPS > NDX + nDAC > NDX + nDAC + XPS > NDX + nDAC + 555PS (oddly enough non DR). I would avoid putting a 555PS on a bare NDX.

NDS + 555PSDR is another fine streamer, but a bit tricky to find used.

Innocent,

Regardig DAC´s I was able to listen to Hugo DAC 2 years ago and Naim  nDAC recently, and both sound great, I don´t remember details but both sound my according my "taste" on music.

Hugo had an attol cd transport and Naim an Aurender streamer.

I will not have the chance of changing equipment so soon, with the 135, supercap, and the pre comming in, I only have space to go for a streamer and DAC, so I have to forget the power supplies for a while.

That´s why I was asking if a solo NDX it´s a major step foward, I can always add a DAC to my Pioneer and live for a while with it.

BR

RM

Adam,

These steps:

NDX > NDX + XPS > NDX + nDAC > NDX + nDAC + XPS > NDX + nDAC + 555PS

You´ve always increase soud quality correct? Any major SQ on any of this upgrades ? Or they are subtle improvements?

Wich one as made a big diference?

BR

RM

Barratana posted:

Adam,

These steps:

NDX > NDX + XPS > NDX + nDAC > NDX + nDAC + XPS > NDX + nDAC + 555PS

You´ve always increase soud quality correct? Any major SQ on any of this upgrades ? Or they are subtle improvements?

Wich one as made a big diference?

 

BR

RM

I would say two steps were the biggest:

Step 1: adding nDAC

Step 2: adding 555 to the nDAC

Each one increased sound quality, but in retrospect I would have skipped some of them. XPS would be that step.

Barratana posted:

That´s why I was asking if a solo NDX it´s a major step foward, I can always add a DAC to my Pioneer and live for a while with it.

BR

RM

Please bear in mind that the quality of the digital 'transport' is paramount when running with a good quality external dac.

That is why NDX + nDAC + 555PS is such a fine streaming solution. But than again if you were to buy it new it would cost almost the same as an NDS + 555PS. 

FWIW, I tried an NDS/555 vs my NDX-FM/nDAC/555, and the difference, to me, was not worth giving up the rather good FM tuner in the NDX, not offered for the NDS.

On the topic of box count, they say an NDS really wants a pair of PS555s; NDX/nDAC maxes out with only one 555; so, three boxes to max out either NDX/nDAC or NDS.

All of the ND streamers bring System Automation to your whole Naim system, which, to me, is far more than mere icing on the cake.

I had the nDAC/555 before the NDX, and admit I never tried the NDX without the nDAC -- I like the extra inputs the DAC provides.

Nick

Nick - good point re FM/DAB tuner on the NDX. The best thing is that FM audio still goes through the nDAC.

Barratana posted:

 

NDX/XPS+DAC/XPS

Which means more 4 boxes to get the best of the NDX, is this correct?

 

The consensus seems to be that if you run an external DAC, with or without power supply, there is no longer a benefit from running a PS on the NDX, so no 4th box required to max it out.

NDX + Hugo works for me. One (small) extra box; one giant leap forward in sound.

ChrisSU posted:

Barratana posted:

 

NDX/XPS+DAC/XPS

Which means more 4 boxes to get the best of the NDX, is this correct?

 

The consensus seems to be that if you run an external DAC, with or without power supply, there is no longer a benefit from running a PS on the NDX, so no 4th box required to max it out.

Not sure there is consensus on that... certainly running the NDX in transport mode it benefits from an XPS2... whether the benefit justifies another box and expense...that will vary for each individual...  for me not.. I can live with the everso slightly reduced performance of using the NDX as a transport powered by its own PSU.

Being relatively new to streaming, and doing it primarily to be able to listen to my CD collection around the house, I have an 'bare' NDX/US alongside a CD555/555PS DR (and LP12). The 555 and the LP12 benefit from SL interconnects whereas the NDX has quite an old mid-spec Chord (I forget which one). I have recently listened to several albums A/B between the NDX and the 555 and I find the 555 only very slightly better. So to me the bare NDX is very good, probably 'good enough' for most people/systems I should imagine. Of course adding a DAC/PS will doubtless make it better still as I'm sure is the NDS, but I too find the tuner module useful, having got rid of a NAT01 a few years back. I would think from your description a bare NDX would do you fine for a year or two, before adding to it potentially.

Neil

Hi all,

Well today I´ve made a little research on the prices on my country and I think it made the decision easy on what not to choose ( but still doubts on what to do ), the nDAc+555ps is 9 times more expensive than the Hugo....

The ndac is 2,5 more expensive then a Hugo....

From what I´ve read they are similar with some of us choosing the Hugo that doesn´t needs a power supply to get the best out of it.

Like I said before, I like both sounds in the sistem that I´ve seen but no idea what they will do at my home.

I´ll look a little on the second hand market,  but,  buy a new nDAC/555PS is out of question.

The decision now is: first the NDX or the DAC with the existing equipment.

NDX - you need a good and stable source. Actually I would recommend that your run your NDX 'bare' for at least 6 months. It is an immensly capable piece of equipment.

PowerLine does help. Plus a decent interconnect.

Hi Adam,

That's my first option, and the one that i'm betting for my system, and i'm assuming that a solo NDX, can take me on a huge step comparing with the pioneer.

But much of the sound that we apreciate with our digital sources, are coming for the newest dacs that are becoming better an better and with the capability of engeneering the output sound according with their makers and running into our tastes.

Any suggestion for the interconnect?

NDX has a very capable DAC running NAIM unique code. It really is good.

As to interconnects. I would recommend you try the following: Naim HiLine, Tellurium Q Black Diamond.

One more point - NDX can also be had with an optional FM / DAB module. Even if you run an NDX in a digital out mode FM can still be used - the signal is actually output to an external DAC.

Adam, I use a dedicated room on a basement whre i have my stereo system and my cinema with a dedicated projector, no aerial, so i cannot take advantage on the fm or dab, only internet radio.

Neil, thanks for the input, if the ndx solo almost match an cd555 then I really have to take o look on a NDX, and like you and Adam say, a bare NDX, does a great job on a aystem, I can think on improvements latter.

Meanwhile a friend of mine will borrow an auralic aries mini to test with the pioneer n50, lets see what it will do on my sistem.

Adam Zielinski posted:

NDX has a very capable DAC running NAIM unique code. It really is good.

And there are quite a few people who have compared NDX alone and with Hugo instead of the NDX's DAC (running Chord's unique code),  and found Hugo better, but retaining the NDX as renderer - just a pity that is paying for a redundant DAC.

Although there are less costly renderers that may match or possibly beat NDX on SQ, there is certainly an attraction of starting with NDX alone as an easy start, then adding a better DAC. 

But one unknown quantity is how the new Uniti Core compares with NDX as a renderer, which giving its newness and the fact that the music files don't go across the network must be worth considering - for all we know it could be every bit as good as the NDX, and with Hugo about the same ballpark cost as bare NDX - and no NAS needed!

Barratana - you might also consider the Hugo TT.  I had a chance to hear it back to back with a Hugo via headphones, and the step to the TT seemed well worth it. 

Innocent Bystander posted:

Adam Zielinski posted:

NDX has a very capable DAC running NAIM unique code. It really is good.

And there are quite a few people who have compared NDX alone and with Hugo instead of the NDX's DAC (running Chord's unique code),  and found Hugo better, but retaining the NDX as renderer - just a pity that is paying for a redundant DAC.

Although there are less costly renderers that may match or possibly beat NDX on SQ, there is certainly an attraction of starting with NDX alone as an easy start, then adding a better DAC. 

But one unknown quantity is how the new Uniti Core compares with NDX as a renderer, which giving its newness and the fact that the music files don't go across the network must be worth considering - for all we know it could be every bit as good as the NDX, and with Hugo about the same ballpark cost as bare NDX - and no NAS needed!

Phil replied on another thread that he couldn't discern between NDX & Core on digi-out to Ndac.

G

GraemeH posted:

Innocent Bystander posted:

Adam Zielinski posted:

NDX has a very capable DAC running NAIM unique code. It really is good.

And there are quite a few people who have compared NDX alone and with Hugo instead of the NDX's DAC (running Chord's unique code),  and found Hugo better, but retaining the NDX as renderer - just a pity that is paying for a redundant DAC.

Although there are less costly renderers that may match or possibly beat NDX on SQ, there is certainly an attraction of starting with NDX alone as an easy start, then adding a better DAC. 

But one unknown quantity is how the new Uniti Core compares with NDX as a renderer, which giving its newness and the fact that the music files don't go across the network must be worth considering - for all we know it could be every bit as good as the NDX, and with Hugo about the same ballpark cost as bare NDX - and no NAS needed!

Phil replied on another thread that he couldn't discern between NDX & Core on digi-out to Ndac.

G

Yes - I remember that entry from Phil. But they are not the same product, are they?
Core is a dedicated UPnP server / riper. It does not have any of the streaming functions integrated in NDX.

Also Core does not have its own DAC nor can it function as one.

NDX provides full system automation to other NAIM components.

I'm not saying this is good or bad. Just different and depends on indivdual's needs and preferences.

Adam Zielinski posted:

GraemeH posted:

Innocent Bystander posted:

Adam Zielinski posted:

NDX has a very capable DAC running NAIM unique code. It really is good.

And there are quite a few people who have compared NDX alone and with Hugo instead of the NDX's DAC (running Chord's unique code),  and found Hugo better, but retaining the NDX as renderer - just a pity that is paying for a redundant DAC.

Although there are less costly renderers that may match or possibly beat NDX on SQ, there is certainly an attraction of starting with NDX alone as an easy start, then adding a better DAC. 

But one unknown quantity is how the new Uniti Core compares with NDX as a renderer, which giving its newness and the fact that the music files don't go across the network must be worth considering - for all we know it could be every bit as good as the NDX, and with Hugo about the same ballpark cost as bare NDX - and no NAS needed!

Phil replied on another thread that he couldn't discern between NDX & Core on digi-out to Ndac.

G

Yes - I remember that entry from Phil. But they are not the same product, are they?
Core is a dedicated UPnP server / riper. It does not have any of the streaming functions integrated in NDX.

Also Core does not have its own DAC nor can it function as one.

NDX provides full system automation to other NAIM components.

I'm not saying this is good or bad. Just different and depends on indivdual's needs and preferences.

IIUC, Core +DAC provides the same streaming functions as NDX, or NDX+DAC, and has same user interface through the Naim app. Without checking it may be that it doesn't have system automation, though the only routine benefit of that is being able to control volume from the same Naim app, so that wouldn't be possible