LFD

This is an old discussion:

https://forums.naimaudio.com/to...-lfd-integrated-amps

Personally, I never had a chance to listen to an LFD amp since they have no dealers in the Midwest (US) and they never participated in the HIFI shows I attended. Interestingly enough, a long time Naim dealer in California started selling LFD few years ago and recently stopped carrying the Naim line.

I'm using a LFD Zero with Epos ES14s in my second system fronted by Naim DVD5. I have an olive 72/Hicap waiting for a power amp, possibly to replace it at some stage, but the enjoyable sound isn't making me rush. I really like the LFD and it just makes me want to put on more music (much like Naim amps).

staffy posted:

Has anyone ever compared the LFD amps to Naim.   After listening to one today I was astounded at the level of clarity that this brand has to offer.  It certainly beats my Naim Nait XS2.

Clarity is not all 

The XS neither

staffy posted:

Has anyone ever compared the LFD amps to Naim.   After listening to one today I was astounded at the level of clarity that this brand has to offer.  It certainly beats my Naim Nait XS2.

I think you are saying that the system you heard today which contained a LFD amp was clearer than your own, which contains a Nait XS2.

I wonder how your own system at home would be if you were to drop in a LFD in place of the XS2.... better, worse, or just different?

Chris

What I have heard from LFD I have thoroughly enjoyed.  But the additional tonal information they provided compared to Naim came at the expense of PRAT.  It was not the right trade-off for me.

Cyrus does the same thing, it may be even cleaner sounding than LFD, after a while you start to miss the Naim sonic signature characteristics.

 it's entertaining, but soon you realize something is missing and you will eventually tire of the different presentation, and wish for that Naim thing again, at least that's how it played out for a few owners of former Naim gear. 

By all means, if you like what you hear, go for it, just remember that if you get that feeling of regret, remember that you read it here first.  

staffy posted:

Has anyone ever compared the LFD amps to Naim.   After listening to one today I was astounded at the level of clarity that this brand has to offer.  It certainly beats my Naim Nait XS2.

Which LFD amp have you tried? Is it the LFD Zero MKIII, IV or V? Did you listen to the LFD with your Proac D20R speakers?

It's just a different sound. The better sounding amp is the one that you prefer. Other amps you may want to try are the Sonneteer Orton and Exposure 3010S2-D. Both are said to be "better" than the Nait XS by those who have tried. Some felt that the Exposure 3010S2 series sound better than the NAC 202, NAPSC, Hicap DR, NAP 200 combination too.

Sound-wise is subjective. In terms of build quality and features (remote control etc.), the LFD lost to the Naim.

It may be a never ending journey in the pursuit of seeking a better sound with all the options out there. Another option is to have few amplifiers to rotate around the loudspeakers if you want to have a more flexibility. Or vice versa - have few speakers to rotate around the amplifier. Tread with caution.

Staffy, I listened to the LFD LE V integrated with Spendor D7 and I was really impressed. Mind you that I heard it with songs that have minimial  music and vocal emphasis, I remember that I listened to My Bye by Youn Sun Nah and I can say that this is better than my SN2 in terms of clarity, but the question is what about the LFD when we consider all aspects of music with different genres? I don't have the answer but till now I still didnt trade my Naim for an LFD kit.

If you can listen to this song and you will know what I mean by which music the LFD excels at.

I hope I said something meaningful here  

ryder. posted:

Some felt that the Exposure 3010S2 series sound better than the NAC 202, NAPSC, Hicap DR, NAP 200 combination too.

 

That was comical, I read that also on the PF website by that Naim forum member, my nephew has Exposure stuff, with Rega R5 speakers, and to say that the 3010 S2 betters the Naim separates is pretty funny. My Nait 5i I had at the time thoroughly trounced it in no uncertain terms!!!

The Naim gear is at an entirely different level, any way you care to compare. Quality of build, quality of components used, the Exposure to me, at least sound wise, is more in line with the mass produced gear it is, it's really more like NAD, Cambridge, and Rotel, than anywhere near Naim, sonically speaking that is.

One other thing, Exposure gear, was for a time, made in the far east, and final assembly was made in England, I don't know if they still do that, but I remember reading that the "MADE IN ENGLAND" actually was misleading.

Christopher_M posted:

staffy posted:

Has anyone ever compared the LFD amps to Naim.   After listening to one today I was astounded at the level of clarity that this brand has to offer.  It certainly beats my Naim Nait XS2.

I think you are saying that the system you heard today which contained a LFD amp was clearer than your own, which contains a Nait XS2.

I wonder how your own system at home would be if you were to drop in a LFD in place of the XS2.... better, worse, or just different?

Chris

I hope to demo my system with the LFD in place of my amp and FC X2.  Unfortunately my dealer has sold out of his Naim CDX5.  So it will be a couple of weeks before I get to seriously listen.  If I feel the Naim amp is better then I will trade in my Chord Qute2 dac for the TT.  After a demo of course.

Why not take the LFD home to hear it in your space with your own gear?

Haim Ronen posted:

Why not take the LFD home to hear it in your space with your own gear?

That would seem a good idea.  However the dealer only has one on display.....but loads of Naim gear.    I dont mind waiting as it gives me time to sort out finances, what with Xmas approaching.

I have heard some nice things about the LFD, and I am interested in your findings.

Naim are pretty understanding about discussion of other makes of HiFi gear on here and they often come up incidentally in several threads.

But to open a topic specifically to discuss a competitor's amps I can't help thinking is a little disrespectful. I know this is a public forum but it is a forum hosted by Naim.

Or is it just me?

I think that's one of the things I like about Naim's forum. They know their amps are fantastic and stand up easily to comparison with other makes. I haven't found any amp that does every aspect of recreating a musical event brilliantly. Naim have never lost sight of the important elements that draw you into the music (where other makes I've tried fall down). There are always swings and roundabouts as every brand has it own set of strengths and weaknesses, but Naim never leaves behind that magic that makes recorded music so involving. Many electronics from other companies fail badly with rhythm, and I find they don't hold my attention for long. While the little LFD Zero amp I'm using certainly doesn't compare with Naim on rhythm, it isn't as far away on that front as many others I've tried.

nigelb posted:

Naim are pretty understanding about discussion of other makes of HiFi gear on here and they often come up incidentally in several threads.

But to open a topic specifically to discuss a competitor's amps I can't help thinking is a little disrespectful. I know this is a public forum but it is a forum hosted by Naim.

Or is it just me?

Why is that disrespectful, Nigel? We should be open-minded, and in fact almost all posts prefer the Naim amplification anyway, so  would it not be a very economic adverts for Naim to convince the Naim skeptics?

Peter Dinh posted:

nigelb posted:

Naim are pretty understanding about discussion of other makes of HiFi gear on here and they often come up incidentally in several threads.

But to open a topic specifically to discuss a competitor's amps I can't help thinking is a little disrespectful. I know this is a public forum but it is a forum hosted by Naim.

Or is it just me?

Why is that disrespectful, Nigel? We should be open-minded, and in fact almost all posts prefer the Naim amplification anyway, so  would it not be a very economic adverts for Naim to convince the Naim skeptics?

This is a Naim forum for owners and prospective owners of Naim gear to discuss, argue, debate and inform one another on primarily all things Naim. Of course other manufacturers of hifi will inevitably be discussed and that is healthy. It keeps Naim on their toes and helps to continue the drive to be competitive - indeed to be the best. Naim are stronger is some product areas than others and there is indeed stiff competition in certain areas - speakers and cables for example. It also makes sense to compare a Naim product to a competitor's. So it is quite natural to refer to a competitor in  some instances. I have no problem with that.

My issue is when a topic is opened specifically to discuss a competitor's product on a forum hosted by Naim. It seems to be taking the Mickey somewhat. That's all.

Either the moderator hasn't noticed this thread or he is OK with it. If it is the latter then I am happy to concede.

badlands posted:

ryder. posted:

Some felt that the Exposure 3010S2 series sound better than the NAC 202, NAPSC, Hicap DR, NAP 200 combination too.

 

That was comical, I read that also on the PF website by that Naim forum member, my nephew has Exposure stuff, with Rega R5 speakers, and to say that the 3010 S2 betters the Naim separates is pretty funny. My Nait 5i I had at the time thoroughly trounced it in no uncertain terms!!!

The Naim gear is at an entirely different level, any way you care to compare. Quality of build, quality of components used, the Exposure to me, at least sound wise, is more in line with the mass produced gear it is, it's really more like NAD, Cambridge, and Rotel, than anywhere near Naim, sonically speaking that is.

One other thing, Exposure gear, was for a time, made in the far east, and final assembly was made in England, I don't know if they still do that, but I remember reading that the "MADE IN ENGLAND" actually was misleading.

 

Like anything this is all opinion. I had a Naim Supernait 2 which I have swapped for the 3010S2 Pre/Power and I personally enjoy it more than the SN2. I just prefer the more fuller sound (especially with my lean PMC speakers). I have kept my NDX and have found it a match made in heaven.

Try one at home if you can. I use to have an LFD Zero LE with a CD5X for a number of years and it was fantastic. I would have kept it if it had a remote, being a bit older now i find it nicer to be able to sit back and change inputs and turn up/down the volume. But that wasn't my only reason for changing my system.

I would be a bit cautious using the NACA5 speaker cables with it. I found it worked best with a single solid core speaker cable.

Cheers

Martin

Wazza69 posted:

badlands posted:

ryder. posted:

Some felt that the Exposure 3010S2 series sound better than the NAC 202, NAPSC, Hicap DR, NAP 200 combination too.

 

That was comical, I read that also on the PF website by that Naim forum member, my nephew has Exposure stuff, with Rega R5 speakers, and to say that the 3010 S2 betters the Naim separates is pretty funny. My Nait 5i I had at the time thoroughly trounced it in no uncertain terms!!!

The Naim gear is at an entirely different level, any way you care to compare. Quality of build, quality of components used, the Exposure to me, at least sound wise, is more in line with the mass produced gear it is, it's really more like NAD, Cambridge, and Rotel, than anywhere near Naim, sonically speaking that is.

One other thing, Exposure gear, was for a time, made in the far east, and final assembly was made in England, I don't know if they still do that, but I remember reading that the "MADE IN ENGLAND" actually was misleading.

 

Like anything this is all opinion. I had a Naim Supernait 2 which I have swapped for the 3010S2 Pre/Power and I personally enjoy it more than the SN2. I just prefer the more fuller sound (especially with my lean PMC speakers). I have kept my NDX and have found it a match made in heaven.

I appreciate your post which may have revealed a distinct difference between the Naim Supernait 2 (or any other Naim amplifiers) and the Exposure 3010S2. So the Supernait 2 has a leaner sound, and the Exposure 3010S2 pre/power sound fuller. That may explain why some people have preferred the Exposure amps. Actually there are many other amps that sound fuller than the Naim. Rega is one of them.

staffy posted:

Christopher_M posted:

staffy posted:

Has anyone ever compared the LFD amps to Naim.   After listening to one today I was astounded at the level of clarity that this brand has to offer.  It certainly beats my Naim Nait XS2.

I think you are saying that the system you heard today which contained a LFD amp was clearer than your own, which contains a Nait XS2.

I wonder how your own system at home would be if you were to drop in a LFD in place of the XS2.... better, worse, or just different?

Chris

I hope to demo my system with the LFD in place of my amp and FC X2.  Unfortunately my dealer has sold out of his Naim CDX5.  So it will be a couple of weeks before I get to seriously listen.  If I feel the Naim amp is better then I will trade in my Chord Qute2 dac for the TT.  After a demo of course.

I'm baffled. You list a Rega Planar 3 TT and a CD5XS in your profile.

C.

staffy posted:

I hope to demo my system with the LFD in place of my amp and FC X2.  Unfortunately my dealer has sold out of his Naim CDX5.  So it will be a couple of weeks before I get to seriously listen.  If I feel the Naim amp is better then I will trade in my Chord Qute2 dac for the TT.  After a demo of course.

So you did not listen to the LFD in your system with your Proac D20R speakers but have listened to the setup at your dealers instead. A word of caution is your experience at the dealers may not be replicated at home even though you are using the same LFD amp. Best is to try the LFD with your D20DR speakers at home to make sure if it is indeed superior to the Nait XS, to your ears.

I would echo NZ-M's advice. The LFD will need their own speaker cables.

I remember spending a sunny afternoon at a friends place listening to choons on his demo LFD Zero.something...

Toots and the Maytals - Funky Kingston. Didn't get the urge to have a skank once. I'd have his Nait 3r anyday thanks

Some years ago when I sold off all my olive series boxes. I replaced them with a LFD NCSE and some LFD speaker cables to go along with a pair of SBLs and it was a very good sounding amp. Then moved up to a pair of Neat Elite SE and things improved. I eventually traded it in for a SuperUniti a few years later solely because I wanted a remote and digital inputs but the NCSE remains a memorable integrated. I should add, I was using a Mac Mini as my source along with a Weiss DAC 2.

nigelb posted:

Peter Dinh posted:

nigelb posted:

Naim are pretty understanding about discussion of other makes of HiFi gear on here and they often come up incidentally in several threads.

But to open a topic specifically to discuss a competitor's amps I can't help thinking is a little disrespectful. I know this is a public forum but it is a forum hosted by Naim.

Or is it just me?

Why is that disrespectful, Nigel? We should be open-minded, and in fact almost all posts prefer the Naim amplification anyway, so  would it not be a very economic adverts for Naim to convince the Naim skeptics?

This is a Naim forum for owners and prospective owners of Naim gear to discuss, argue, debate and inform one another on primarily all things Naim. Of course other manufacturers of hifi will inevitably be discussed and that is healthy. It keeps Naim on their toes and helps to continue the drive to be competitive - indeed to be the best. Naim are stronger is some product areas than others and there is indeed stiff competition in certain areas - speakers and cables for example. It also makes sense to compare a Naim product to a competitor's. So it is quite natural to refer to a competitor in  some instances. I have no problem with that.

My issue is when a topic is opened specifically to discuss a competitor's product on a forum hosted by Naim. It seems to be taking the Mickey somewhat. That's all.

Either the moderator hasn't noticed this thread or he is OK with it. If it is the latter then I am happy to concede.

If we do not come out to the open and discuss LFD here, some hi fi magazines would come up with some dodgy reviews with some subjective opinions  anyway. So it's better to judge LFD here with the honest reviews.