Dear Naim...

Just messed with it for another half hour - best I got was about 20 seconds of music before "Stopped - Press Play to Start" and then you press Start on the Naim remote and it finds the last song it was playing, then plays a few seconds: lather, rinse, repeat.

An overpriced door stop at present.

Actually it is a good thing it is costly, because were it not, it might have already gotten hurled into the back yard at this point, as pissed off as I am. I have more than enough bullshit in my life; music and my system are supposed to function as an escape, not a contributor.

Guess if I want music, I have to use the SBT on the backup system - which should be an embarrassment to Naim that such is the case.

Look on the bright side - with each firmware update things get better (I use the iOS version of the Naim app) to the point where, with the latest MuSo update, things work fine.

The ND5 XS performance is still only borderline acceptable, but hopefully when the firmware update is finally issued, that too will work fine.

Did you try the combo at your dealers?  Did it work correctly there?   

Try contacting naim and ask to speak to Phil Harris. He is very knowledgeable and helpful. A friend had a problem with his unitiserve not connecting and Phil remotely logged into his network and sorted the problem. 

Mr Happy posted:

Try contacting naim and ask to speak to Phil Harris. He is very knowledgeable and helpful. A friend had a problem with his unitiserve not connecting and Phil remotely logged into his network and sorted the problem. 

I would second this feedback. As you are having such type of problems, it requires probably a different eye to resolve it. The naim software is perhaps not the most functional etc, but for me an many others it has worked in a stable manner, besides the Tidal topic. You deserve to enjoy your music, that's why you bought a high quality product from Naim.

You are describing an app problem, not a streaming problem. Get a decent phone / tablet (iOS) with a normal operating system andeverything works well.

I thinkk you should be complaining to Google for developing Android and to whoever set your network up.

Test the Ios App on a friends iphone/ipad. 

Download the app and then connect the device to your network. 

In the beginning of my "journey" with Naim streamer I've had some issues ( app couldn't find the streamer automatically) I thought the app might be responsible... Now I know, the router was the guilty one. 

Kacper

For what it is worth, i have NEVER had a problem with my 272, or the iOS app, or the network, although i must add that my 272 is connected with ethernet cable, not wirelessly.

I will also add that i find the iOS app really good, and i use TIDAL hifi as well, with no problems whatsoever.  I also use J River software as the uPNP server, but still the Naim iOS app works just fine.

You must be either a) having a faulty software/hardware in your 272, or b) you did something to it inadvertently.  Try resetting to factory settings, and add ethernet cable and see if there is any joy (if you haven't done this already).

 Been using a NDX for over 12 months always had a wired connection Naim app on a couple of Android devices basically bulletproof ,likewise the Unitilite and Muso Qb I have purchased since, as other people have suggested either contact Naim or your dealer to sort the problem.

Dr Mark,

This could easily be a problem with the configuration (or more rarely the hardware) of your wireless router.  The even if the router configuration isn't right, the Naim app and streamers will still try to to connect.  The problem here is that subtle changes in the timings of the app can defeat these attempts if the main method of discovery or connection is blocked by the router.  In my case I had to enable a special DLNA mode on my router AND disable IGMP snooping before my system would connect reliably.  Both of these are problems with my router (not the Naim app or the streamer), so it was playing havoc with the standard DLNA discovery and streaming protocols that the Naim systems use.

Most computers use different protocols to connect, and router manufacturers ensure these work, but aren't bothered to test for variations in timing of the DLNA protocols, leaving the user to sort these out.  You shouldn't blame Naim if you only test your network using a set of protocols that doesn't include the standard DLNA set that Naim uses.  Don't forget that even if the streamer is via wired Ethernet, the control messages from the tablet still need to cross the bridge between the wireless and the wired networks, giving the router plenty of opportunity to mess this up.

Paristhea posted:

For what it is worth, i have NEVER had a problem with my 272, or the iOS app, or the network, although i must add that my 272 is connected with ethernet cable, not wirelessly.

I will also add that i find the iOS app really good, and i use TIDAL hifi as well, with no problems whatsoever.  I also use J River software as the uPNP server, but still the Naim iOS app works just fine.

You must be either a) having a faulty software/hardware in your 272, or b) you did something to it inadvertently.  Try resetting to factory settings, and add ethernet cable and see if there is any joy (if you haven't done this already).

The OP is using Android.

However... I would start looking at the network settings first. Huge has just posted good check points.

DrMark

How very frustrating. I would also suggest ringing Phil Harris at Naim. I appreciate you are in the US but he works all sorts of hours and I would think you could find a time when you are both available. Or email him at support@Naimaudio.com

Another suggestion is to get a friend who has an iPhone or iPad to come round (or maybe someone can lend you an old one -it doesn't need a SIM card.) The Naim app is free to download so you can put it on his idevice and see how that gets on.

Also you should be able to control your 272 from the remote control and just forget about the app.  If you do that, does it work ok? I think from reading your post again that this doesn't work either, in which case I would suggest you try wiring the 272 to your router with a cat 5 or 6 LAN cable, even just temporarily. You can buy one on eBay or wherever for peanuts and they can be whatever length you need up to 100m.

best

David

Adam Zielinski posted:

You are describing an app problem, not a streaming problem. Get a decent phone / tablet (iOS) with a normal operating system andeverything works well.

I thinkk you should be complaining to Google for developing Android and to whoever set your network up.

That might make sense among veteran users who are happy to spend a lot of money. It's just plain unacceptable as a general stance.

These products are advertised as working with an Android app. An iOS device in many cases costs an alarming proportion of the purchase price of the Naim product. And Android devices are not the poor relatives of the smart device world - they haven't been for years. As controllers for Naim gear using the Naim app they should, to somewhat ironically borrow a catch phrase, just work.

All that said, I disagree that the OP primarily has an app problem. The Android app is ropey compared to the iOS variant, but it's not the nightmare he's having. I just wanted to point out that the 'buy a iDevice instead, Android is rubbish' idea should be put to bed.

Some small comfort might come from the fact that it can't be long until new versions of the app are released alongside the new models. And maybe even firmware. Perhaps they'll help with the good doctor's woes.

Adam Zielinski posted:

Paristhea posted:

For what it is worth, i have NEVER had a problem with my 272, or the iOS app, or the network, although i must add that my 272 is connected with ethernet cable, not wirelessly.

I will also add that i find the iOS app really good, and i use TIDAL hifi as well, with no problems whatsoever.  I also use J River software as the uPNP server, but still the Naim iOS app works just fine.

You must be either a) having a faulty software/hardware in your 272, or b) you did something to it inadvertently.  Try resetting to factory settings, and add ethernet cable and see if there is any joy (if you haven't done this already).

The OP is using Android.

However... I would start looking at the network settings first. Huge has just posted good check points.

My wife uses Android and the app works fine on her device.

Yes, Huge posted a very good reply, i wasn't even aware of those points, and i liked his reply.

The suggestion to contact Phil is a good one. Speak to Phil or at least exchange emails. 

Dr Mark, I feel your pain, and I don't think you are wrong to criticise Naim for their software/firmware quality. This is a long standing issue, and despite some improvements in their software development over the last couple of years the overall experience still falls well short of what I hope for from a high end brand. 

It's true that the other components in your network can influence the robustness of your setup, but experienced software developers should design systems to be more forgiving of these external factors.

One thing you might consider is buying a chromecast audio and using the optical out into the DAC on your 272. I do this and it's very reliable. It also means I don't have to go anywhere near Naim's software. I know it's not very satisfactory when you've spent all that money on a piece of gear, but it means I can enjoy my music more! 

Do voice your dissatisfaction directly with Naim though as they are more responsive  in my experience.

İ am using both ios/android they both work good, ios far better faster, android depending on its mood, my 272 was directly conmecred to a nas with cat6 cable then i put a switch beetween and AQ cinamon as the last part

things become 2 times faster, tidal works like a flash!  

İs it the switch or cinamon i did not test! But i use good cables from nas/switch as well 

Adam Zielinski posted:

You are describing an app problem, not a streaming problem. Get a decent phone / tablet (iOS) with a normal operating system andeverything works well.

I thinkk you should be complaining to Google for developing Android and to whoever set your network up.

I doubt very much that it is an app problem although it may be a network problem.  Although the android app is not as good as the iOS one that has got nothing to do with Android.  I have a top end android phone and the latest iPhone for work - the android phone is much better in my view.  There is no reason why an app can't work just as well on android as it does on iOS.  Even if it was an app problem, if you have an android device and an android app why should you have to purchase something from Apple to make your Naim work properly?

Emre posted:

İ am using both ios/android they both work good, ios far better faster, android depending on its mood, my 272 was directly conmecred to a nas with cat6 cable then i put a switch beetween and AQ cinamon as the last part

things become 2 times faster, tidal works like a flash!  

İs it the switch or cinamon i did not test! But i use good cables from nas/switch as well 

In my case Tidal works like a flash as well, I don't really know if it's either because of the switch or the internet speed which I have increased up to 150mb/s  

cheers,

Kacper

Adam Zielinski posted:

You are describing an app problem, not a streaming problem. Get a decent phone / tablet (iOS) with a normal operating system andeverything works well.

I thinkk you should be complaining to Google for developing Android and to whoever set your network up.

Only just seen this. But Adam I don't think you are right because the OP describes how his 272 can't find the network when prompted to do so by the Naim remote. That's nothing to do with the app.

I think this will turn out to be a router issue. I know it works fine for other devices the OP has, but nevertheless if it were me, I would be buying a new router. But I would try a cable between router and 272 first, as I said in my earlier post.

best

David

David Hendon posted:

Adam Zielinski posted:

You are describing an app problem, not a streaming problem. Get a decent phone / tablet (iOS) with a normal operating system andeverything works well.

I thinkk you should be complaining to Google for developing Android and to whoever set your network up.

Only just seen this. But Adam I don't think you are right because the OP describes how his 272 can't find the network when prompted to do so by the Naim remote. That's nothing to do with the app.

I think this will turn out to be a router issue. I know it works fine for other devices the OP has, but nevertheless if it were me, I would be buying a new router. But I would try a cable between router and 272 first, as I said in my earlier post.

best

David

Hi David,  yes, -ish.

Even when using the remote, if an instance of the Naim App is connected to the streamer it will repeatedly send commands to the streamer requesting status updates to keep it's UI in sync with the streamer.  If it finds a discrepancy it can then send stop and restart commands to the streamer, causing all sorts of mayhem if the network isn't working properly.

Is that really how it works, Huge?  One of the annoyances I have with (both Android and iOS versions of) the app is that it seems to lose contact with the streamer when the smart device goes to sleep, and only update when it performs a new handshake when the app is resumed.  It's mildly annoying having to wait regardless, but is also one of the principal points where the Android app struggles and can crash.  I'm not saying you're wrong, just observing that it's a bit of a weird implementation if so.

The 'stay connected' option doesn't seem to affect this.

Thanks to everyone who has posted (I just got up and tried - still can't get more than 20 seconds of music.) And I thank the forum that no one jumped on me with both feet for criticizing Naim - part of the reason I do is because having owned many Naim boxes through the years (about half new, half 2nd hand) I have come to (a) expect top level product from Naim, and (b) know their reputation for caring about the customer experience.

Were this another brand, I would likely just ditch the damn thing and be done with it.

Some points to factor in:

1) I would LOVE to get a different router, but with AT&T U-Verse, this is the only one that can be used (and that they can charge me $7.95 a month for...pricks). And I would even consider switching providers, but with a potential move overseas in the offing, and my only other option being Time-Warner (been there, done that, got the t-shirt) it's just a case of swapping one horrid company for another.

2) The router and Vortexbox are way over on the other side of the house in a spare bedroom - probably only about 25 linear feet, but I would need about 50 foot of any cable to get to it...so I will hold off on that option, but it is a possibility if needed.

3) There was a Nougat upgrade that came in for the Nexus phone I use 2 days ago - I read carefully the alleged scope of the upgrade (which was small and quick) and it claimed to be limited to "security and bug fixes." However, as detailed, the 272 no longer even works with just using the Naim remote. (Is it possible that the app could be interfering "uninvited"?) Prior to the upgrade is was working reasonably (if not annoyingly) well...i.e., I could make it work, but the fact that the default state of the 272 when you go to use it is "No Network" is a suspicious thing to me.

4) I actually have an old iPhone 4S - back a month or so ago when I first got bit with upgrading to Nougat, Simon-In-Suffolk had recommended getting an iPad or old phone to use as a remote, and I remembered that I had it - went to install the Naim app and there isn't enough room (I have a s**tload of music on it) - so getting that sufficiently "cleaned up" has been a project to be done in all this, but finding the time has been at issue. Once Naim got the Android app working to even some degree the imperative had diminished. (Plus a trip to Italy and then NY, so there was a period where I was only home 4 of 18 days.) Now I have my employer asking (demanding) a lot of time so I can dig my own grave like a concentration camp victim, so some offshore resource can shoot me in the back and let me fall in...so time for this nonsense is at a premium. (Plus my second job is very busy this month as well with 14 ice hockey games to officiate...oh my aching back.)

5) I am going to read Huge's post a few times and try to log in to the router and see what I see - maybe I can post a screen shot. I am not strong in that area at all. I am also not adverse to someone seeing something in the setup and saying "Oh you nitwit, it is X, just change it to Y!" All I want to do it listen to music.

6) The 272 sees both LMS and the DLNA server - it has been that way since I got it, and for the most part it has worked - is there any issue in this. I mean, they reside on the same box, but of course are essentially 2 different servers using the same hardware.

All this notwithstanding, for all the litany of things Naim does well (and I think we all agree that they do) this software/firmware thing is a pretty big Achilles heel for their product line. I see enough posts complaining and having issues with it that it is clearly not where it should be, especially inasmuch as other company's products are not experiencing the same level of angst inducing behavior.

I hate that this current system is making me miss the SBT + SN combo.

Dave(***T),

When the android device goes to sleep, then normally you don't get the messages

However, when the device is awake and the app is running (either in the foreground OR in the background), then yes you do get the network messages.

It's not a weird implementation for a status monitor using stateless messaging, it's quite normal.