Leaving Components Permanently Switched On or Off

"It is best to leave Naim equipment powered up (and indeed most other brands too, apart from Class A or valve amps) for best, and most consistent performance." (Richard Dane)

I have a Linn/Naim six pack and i turn off my 6 x 135's after a listening session, but i leave pre-amp, naxo and power supplies turned on all the time.

Leaving them permanently switched off tends to make the system sound very quiet.  

Thanks for the post Super. 6 units of 135. Impressive. Similarly I believe the preamp and power supply will need to be powered up all the time.

I recently had my amps turned off for 10 hours as I was shifting the amps and cabling around and the sound of the system is now off. I hope the system will be on song tomorrow or the day after.

Thanks Huge. It should read "Permanently Switched On or Temporarily Switched Off".

Very droll Mr Huge

Every PC failure and HiFi/AV failure or blown fuse I have suffered has happened on startup. The AV system components have a standby state which (I think) allows a softer start. My PC and HiFi don't. So one sleeps at night and the other gets left on, which by a happy coincidence is what the manufacturer recommends. I see that the new components employ a stand by facility. I'm glad to see this and I'm sure that its affect on performance and sound quality has been minimised to vanishing.

more important dont switch on then switch off after a short while. if you have mono amps .switch one on then let it to stabilize before switching the other one on.

Leave it on, unless you really can't afford the electricity...

Apparently it's the law that when it's Raining in Switzerland you must turn on the car headlights - I don't drive , but if I did - How would I know if it's raining in Switzerland ?

TOBYJUG posted:

Apparently it's the law that when it's Raining in Switzerland you must turn on the car headlights - I don't drive , but if I did - How would I know if it's raining in Switzerland ?

I can do you one better - we drive with headlights on at all times in Poland. So I leave all my Naims on all the time too 

I have never been convinced that more than maybe an hour is needed to warm up (you can't compare the sound one day to another, but nothing seems wrong when using shortly after turn on), and have generally always turned everything off when not in use. Nothing has ever blown on switch on (touch wood!). Exceptions are my current power amp, which I've only had for about 9 months, and Dave, which I've only just got, both of which have a standby mode so I switch them to that, while Mac Mini remains on all the time (but is very low power).  My previous power amp was heavily biased into Class A, so high power consumption and high internal temperature so always turned off after use.

Loki posted:

Leave it on, unless you really can't afford the electricity...

Personally I think it is not about whether one can or cannot afford the electricity. In my mind, the issue is more towards using something only when it is needed or required. A question of wastage. With electricity, if one listens to the system say only once in a month, there is not much point to keep the system powered up all the time. It's the same with other household appliances, or say the lights. One will switch on the lights only when needed. If the lights are left on when they are not needed, it is wastage.

In my case, I have very little time to listen to the system on weekdays. Most of the time I do not listen at all on weekdays. Most of my listening sessions are during the weekends, clocking an average of 8 hours a day. Perhaps I will switch on the system on Friday so that I have a 1 day warm up lead time for the amps prior to listening to the system on the next day.

I think the more pertinent question is HOW LONG DOES THE POWER AMPS NEED TO SOUND OPTIMAL WHEN SWITCHED ON FROM COLD.

Harry posted:

Every PC failure and HiFi/AV failure or blown fuse I have suffered has happened on startup. The AV system components have a standby state which (I think) allows a softer start. My PC and HiFi don't. So one sleeps at night and the other gets left on, which by a happy coincidence is what the manufacturer recommends. I see that the new components employ a stand by facility. I'm glad to see this and I'm sure that its affect on performance and sound quality has been minimised to vanishing.

That is certainly a valid point - failure of the on-off switch and/or blown fuse with frequent startups.

Innocent Bystander posted:

I have never been convinced that more than maybe an hour is needed to warm up (you can't compare the sound one day to another, but nothing seems wrong when using shortly after turn on), and have generally always turned everything off when not in use. Nothing has ever blown on switch on (touch wood!). Exceptions are my current power amp, which I've only had for about 9 months, and Dave, which I've only just got, both of which have a standby mode so I switch them to that, while Mac Mini remains on all the time (but is very low power).  My previous power amp was heavily biased into Class A, so high power consumption and high internal temperature so always turned off after use.

I do not have many experiences with blown fuses. It's only on one or two occasions where the fuses on my components are blown. My last amp that showed a blown fuse was a Sony 5-channel power amp. It was rarely used and was once left untouched for more than 1 year. The fuse was blown during a startup. I suppose leaving amplifiers unused in cold storage for too long may be detrimental not only to the fuses but the capacitors or other components in the amp.

 

Thanks Huge. It should read "Permanently Switched On or Temporarily Switched Off".

And unplugged too?

Chag -

I think this has been discussed with various slants about 100 times on the forum.

Personally, I believe in energy efficiency not energy conservation. The former indicates that the output should be identical for less energey consumed. The latter (conservation) is that less energy is achieved via reduced output (lowered outcome or performance) which I only advocate if there is wasted energy to be saved not contributing to the appreciable output.

While environmental concerns actually do keep me up at night I am also pragmatic. If people make effort to reduce consumption in whatever way they can that doesn't inconvenience them, massive savings can be made. For some, the potential for savings may be 80%, for others 1%. It really depends on the the current usage profile. But if everyone participates sensible, the average can be very high. It is more important that everyone do what they can than every reduce by X%. To that end, if you believe that turning off the Naim stack reducing the performance until it has suitably warmed up again, then I see no reason to feel guilty about leaving it on. You might be acheiving your houshold energy savings in other ways that have no impact on your lifestyle.

There is also the consideration of true economics. It certaily is true that things tend to die during startup or shutdown. With that in mind, is the cost in electricity over the expected lifetime of a product more or less than the cost of repair or replacement to the unit if it dies before that time on startup/shutdown? It also depends on how much shorter you think the product life is likely to be due to constant powering on and off. People have had gear die very quickly and other have had it outlast the user so it is very hard to do more than a guestimate. There is both an environmental cost to replacing a worn out product as well as a monetary cost.

For this reason, it makes it incredibly dificult to take a hard stance once way or the other. The weighing up of the impact and cost of replacements of any item is not trivial. Least of all because we are blind to the true failure rates for various usage patterns and the environment cost of manufacturing a replacement. So it makes it very important for each person to make their own judgement here and go with what they feel is right and reasonable given the lack meanginful data. I really have zero tolerance and patience for those that tell me it is not socially acceptable to leave certain things on or use certain types of power consuming products since such an attitude shows a gross failure to grasp the interrelated complexities and consequencies of these decisions.

I make a great effort to do what I can to reduce my energy footprint and the results have been excellent. But I also leave by hifi gear on all the time. I would consel each person to make their own decision but don't be evengelical about it.

This is not a comment referring to any specific individual, but to all, and to collective approaches of communities and countries:  If everyone, unless or until they are only using energy from "renewable sources", was to minimise energy usagethen our fossil fuels would last longer, and we would be polluting the atmosphere less. Energy efficiency is only a contribution to that. Sadly there is a widespread view along the lines of "why should I do until he does", which ultimately is selfish and unhelpful, which is why things haven't progressed as far as they might in reducing global consumption. Because they can afford it the more prosperous people or communities sometimes have a tendency to be the worst, because they feel insulated from the effects and in some cases see it as an attack on their lifestyle.

In terms of economics, efficiency is certainly a primary contribution, and depends on the person's disposable income: different if you've scrimped and saved every penny for years  to buy your hifi equipment or to save for the next item and are mortgaged up to the hilt etc, going without other luxuries because it is the one thing in life that is worth it, compared to the person who can afford a new major item Whenever they feel like it.

Those are my views - but of course in practice any desire to minimise energy usage has to be tempered by lifestyle, or we wouldn't have hifi at all, and of course everyone will have their own, which I am sure they can justify, and in the case of hifi the question of it affecting the quality that you have bought the equipment for is of course fundamental. So Ryder's last question surely is the most important one, regardless of anyone's views on energy conservation and economics, as power amps are the biggest consumers in the hifi system: How long do the power amps need to be on to sound optimal when switched on from cold?

From what I remember of my manufacturer training with Arcam and Linn...

• Power amps take just a couple hours to come on song from cold provided they are already run in.
• Digital sources have the worst impact on sound quality when cold (Arcam used to keep the DACs hot even if you turned off the power) and take a day to come back on song.
• Pre-amps have a fair impact on sound when cold and take the longest to warm up (couple of days).

As a rule, before closing up each night, all power amps and integrateds went off each night but preamps, DACs and CD players stayed on and we avoided booking the dem room for items that were powered off overnight before noon.

Power amp typically takes an hour or two to come up to speed, but the whole system takes about a week in my experience. I don't usually manage to plan my listening sessions with an hour or two in hand, so mine stays on, except in thunderstorms or for cleaning/ changing equipment.

Supernait 2,  Hicap DR takes a full week to come back on song after a few days turned off !!

Steve

clintyboy posted:

Supernait 2,  Hicap DR takes a full week to come back on song after a few days turned off !!

 

Steve

Superuniti a couple of hours, I don't if it has tantalum capacitors or not.  7 days seems to long time, furthermore it is difficult to say this with certainty how can you remember if the same music track sounded different 7 days before.....I believe there are many variables that can affect the perception, even the state of mind of the listener