NAP 300DR trade for older NAP 500

Bert Schurink posted:

Depending on your foreseen endgame the 500 would always be a better bet. Unless you want to stay with the 272 then a 300dr would be a best balance.

the 500 can in time always be upgraded to dr spec...

I guess more of what I'm saying if I'm allowed too with the 'pseudo Naim King monitoring' is....

from what I heard is I would either own a 300-DR or 500-DR if were talking amps...

now for pre-amps the N272 with a 555PS was damn good and I wouldn't think twice now if I need a separate pre-amp and streamer since the NAC 552 and NDS didn't wow me which I was surprised...."unless I was using vinyl'

now as for PS and N272 owners I didn't hear much at all with a XPS-DR plugged in and the 555PS is what made the pre-amp wake up so if I could only afford a XPS-DR I would either keep it bare or get a 555PS new or second hand...

as for SL leads the speaker and a source lead made the sound improvement not really the DIN-XLR....

so if maybe you were wondering like me how much better your system can get I would put my money on the NAP 300DR or NAP 500DR and if your not planning on using vinyl I would do a N272 w/555PS and a good pair of speakers....

as for me I feel the NAP 500 will work just perfect with my N272 and 555PS feeding it to my Sopras....and it's all subjective hearing

Jon,

"Which is all very lovely, but not relevant to the OP who currently has a 300*DR*"

Which is why I prefaced my comment with FWIW (and I know you know what that means).

Steve

tonym posted:

jon honeyball posted:

just to be controversial... my ordering in increasing quality is:

500, 300, 300DR, 500DR

Going from a 300DR to a 500 seems to me to be a significant backstep. 

Now people will squeal that the 500 is better than the 300. 

No squealing from me here. If we're talking 300 vs. 500, the latter is better, in every department, and not by a little bit. I've used both extensively in my system by the way.

I also went from 3x 300 Active to 3x 500 Active and only did this after an extended demo, as for the first day or two the set of then loaned NAP 500 had not warmed-up and were clearer and more controlled but not as refined as the NAP 300 amps. But after a few more days the NAP 500 amps came on-tune and totally eclipsed any listening experience I had ever had with the NAP 300 and was almost magical-better - capable of both subtle rendering and clarity on voice and also putting the scale and dynamics there at the same time. In the end I describe the old (non-DR) NAP 300 as presenting a refined and beautiful musical picture - but the NAP 500 put the performance into the room in a live visceral way.

And then there is the DR 500 which takes it on to another level again.

I can understand some negative impressions on NAP 500 but I found, for me, it was all down to warm-up and the extra bass power causing problems with existing system set-up. When run-in and warmed-up and installed right the NAP500 slaughters the NAP300 in every respect IMO.

DB.

And here is the dilemma. you start with a system giving a performance level of (lets say) an arbitrary 7 on a 10 point sale. You change the amps and the performance is now a 4. After some months, it improves -- now are you at 7 or 6.5 or 8? Its very hard to know after some months have passed. The room might be cooler because you have gone from winter time central heating to late spring no heating. All sorts of things can change. You might be delighted that it is no longer sound like a 4... :-)

Having done well warmed up/run in/blah blah 500 versus well warmed up/run in/blah blah 300 in the same system at the same time, I came to different conclusions. But who knows what happens elsewhere?

Having borrowed a very well run-in 300 for an extended home trial, I really loved it and ran with it for a fair while (perhaps taking advantage of the kindness of my ever-patient dealer). Then, out of curiosity, no intention of buying, etc. etc. I tried a (well run in) 500...One of those wonderful moments in hi-fi which completely overturn your perception of what can be achieved with a change to a black box or two. Listen for yourself and decide.

maybe I ment to say the 300 and 500 sounded fantastic and I think the 500 is a better amp but, if someone does not plan on vinyl or cd playback to me what I heard between a 552/NDS and N272/555PS was very little and I believe Naim done a fantastic job with engineering the N272 as I had higher expectations for the above and it allowed me to come to a conclusion for myself...

put the NAP 500 and get it DR'ed

keep the 300-DR I have

but I think the N272 was suffice on the end of the NAP 500 and S-800's as heard did not hear enough difference in the 552/NDS

Altough I haven't got the extensive experience of fellow Naimees, I have found that a "better" black box always brings better SQ right out of the bat, eventhough the musical presentation sometimes may require a certain period of time to adjust to, but its always better IMHO in most aspects while the rest of the package gets better with running in. So I dont really agree that the SQ goes down to a "4" then gradually increases, to a point which may or may not be up to the previous level.

jon honeyball posted:

.....
Having done well warmed up/run in/blah blah 500 versus well warmed up/run in/blah blah 300 in the same system at the same time, I came to different conclusions. But who knows what happens elsewhere?

We do know what happens elsewhere - in one instance anyway.

We disagree - you regularly state whenever opportunity arises that Naim sell a worse Amp in the 500 over 300 in your opinion and others either agree or have a different experience.

The OP has to form his own opinion.

No need for Blah, just have a listen.

DB.

Sold not sell. I assume both 300 and 500 are dr only now. In which case the 500dr is the clear winner. 

Ok - that is informative. So the DR redeems the NAP 500 to its correct position in the Naim hierarchy?

I did not think the old NAP 500 personally was worse, but have respect for those that herd it as too different to the old 300. Personally it was still a better amp but I do find that the DR 500 has boosted the rendering of what might be described as the warmth and colour in the music - superior rendering of harmonic structure and lower noise.

Useful discussion.

I'm interested in people saying that the 500DR has lower noise than the 500, because when there is no input signal there is no discernible noise coming from the speakers with the 500 until you get your ear almost right up to the speakers.  I imagine some of that noise that is there comes from the pre-amp (a rather old 52 in my case).  How much less noise can there be?

Beachcomber posted:

I'm interested in people saying that the 500DR has lower noise than the 500, because when there is no input signal there is no discernible noise coming from the speakers with the 500 until you get your ear almost right up to the speakers.  I imagine some of that noise that is there comes from the pre-amp (a rather old 52 in my case).  How much less noise can there be?

If you have sensitive speakers any reduction of noise is a clear benefit. I do hear limited, but noise with my 500....

intermod hash noise. Not hissing or humming. 

Greekspec2

Thanks for the informative post,even though others might have different opinions.I am happy to hear that the 272 with a 555 ps is (in your mind) all you will ever need for a pre amp.

I am currently using the 272 bare with the 250dr,and my dealer has an Xps dr sitting waiting for me,do you think I should cancel that until I can afford a 555?I was under the impression that the Xps dr will transform the 272 from what I have read,I have not heard one.My main source is streaming,can you describe what you heard in more detail comparing the Xps to the 555?I have tried an xp5 xs on the 272,and I did not find it to be much,if any improvement on the bare 272...but that is not dr tech.

No quarter posted:

Greekspec2

Thanks for the informative post,even though others might have different opinions.I am happy to hear that the 272 with a 555 ps is (in your mind) all you will ever need for a pre amp.

I am currently using the 272 bare with the 250dr,and my dealer has an Xps dr sitting waiting for me,do you think I should cancel that until I can afford a 555?I was under the impression that the Xps dr will transform the 272 from what I have read,I have not heard one.My main source is streaming,can you describe what you heard in more detail comparing the Xps to the 555?I have tried an xp5 xs on the 272,and I did not find it to be much,if any improvement on the bare 272...but that is not dr tech.

the systems I tried was a N272 with a XPS-DR and 555PS hooked on a 250DR back to back and back to a bare N272. What I heard with the XPS-DR was the same improvement I heard with my AQ Diamond Ethernet cable which was a lot for a cable but little to a disappointment for a PS but not till the 555PS was hooked up I heard the real improvements , for me the XPS gives little return for the price and the 555PS is expensive but actually does something where's I thought what I heard with the 555PS should of been the difference the XPS make and the 555PS I was expecting higher performance....after that we moved the N272 to another room and tried it bare and with 555PS hooked up to a NAP 500 and S-800' with full SL loom, also demoed with the 552 and NDS.....like I said if streaming,NAS or internet is what you do most I have no problem running a N272/555PS on a NAP 500 since I heard very little difference between that and the same songs playing on the 552/NDS .so you can  throw $90,000usd or more over a N272/555PS and gain not much difference of sound as I were going to place an order for a N252/NDS but after what I heard I will rather dump my money into other toys....

No quarter posted:

Greekspec2

Thanks for the informative post,even though others might have different opinions.I am happy to hear that the 272 with a 555 ps is (in your mind) all you will ever need for a pre amp.

I am currently using the 272 bare with the 250dr,and my dealer has an Xps dr sitting waiting for me,do you think I should cancel that until I can afford a 555?I was under the impression that the Xps dr will transform the 272 from what I have read,I have not heard one.My main source is streaming,can you describe what you heard in more detail comparing the Xps to the 555?I have tried an xp5 xs on the 272,and I did not find it to be much,if any improvement on the bare 272...but that is not dr tech.

So several 272 owners have said on here the XPSDR transforms the 272 and you quite sensibly arrange a demo. Then one individual says the XPSDR makes no difference to the performance of the 272 and you ask that person if you should cancel the demo! Or have you actually ordered a XPSDR without even listening to it first?

Only you can decide if the XPSDR on the 272 is worth it by you listening to a 272 with your own ears without and with an XPSDR attached. Have a demo, what have you got to lose? And then come back here and tell us of your experience. Because at the end of the day it is individuals' actual experience of kit on here that is most relevant and of most interest.

As someone once said, 'Here-say - personally I can take it or leave it'. 

Thanks Nigel,I will demo the Xps,it is here in my home town,but the Naim dealer here has just closed his store and retired.He ordered the xps for me a week before he closed,it is in his storage container until I come up with the funds,I don't think I can get a local demo of the 555,I would have to drive 4 hours...thus the question,and thanks for the reply Greekspec2.

No quarter posted:

Thanks Nigel,I will demo the Xps,it is here in my home town,but the Naim dealer here has just closed his store and retired.He ordered the xps for me a week before he closed,it is in his storage container until I come up with the funds,I don't think I can get a local demo of the 555,I would have to drive 4 hours...thus the question,and thanks for the reply Greekspec2.

Ah OK, so not so simple for you. I understand.

nigelb posted:

No quarter posted:

Greekspec2

Thanks for the informative post,even though others might have different opinions.I am happy to hear that the 272 with a 555 ps is (in your mind) all you will ever need for a pre amp.

I am currently using the 272 bare with the 250dr,and my dealer has an Xps dr sitting waiting for me,do you think I should cancel that until I can afford a 555?I was under the impression that the Xps dr will transform the 272 from what I have read,I have not heard one.My main source is streaming,can you describe what you heard in more detail comparing the Xps to the 555?I have tried an xp5 xs on the 272,and I did not find it to be much,if any improvement on the bare 272...but that is not dr tech.

So several 272 owners have said on here the XPSDR transforms the 272 and you quite sensibly arrange a demo. Then one individual says the XPSDR makes no difference to the performance of the 272 and you ask that person if you should cancel the demo! Or have you actually ordered a XPSDR without even listening to it first?

Only you can decide if the XPSDR on the 272 is worth it by you listening to a 272 with your own ears without and with an XPSDR attached. Have a demo, what have you got to lose? And then come back here and tell us of your experience. Because at the end of the day it is individuals' actual experience of kit on here that is most relevant and of most interest.

As someone once said, 'Here-say - personally I can take it or leave it'. 

I totally agree with you Nigelb, as I said the XPS made very little difference not no difference but yes to him he really needs to demo  both .....

No quarter posted:

Thanks Nigel,I will demo the Xps,it is here in my home town,but the Naim dealer here has just closed his store and retired.He ordered the xps for me a week before he closed,it is in his storage container until I come up with the funds,I don't think I can get a local demo of the 555,I would have to drive 4 hours...thus the question,and thanks for the reply Greekspec2.

I recommend finding a dealer with both PS to demo assuming your in the UK and for me being in California is impossible to demo most stuff, 4hr drive is nothing  since I commute 1hr just to work and 1.5hr home damn San Francisco traffic

I am in Canada,so I can handle a four hour drive no problem,I will have to talk to my dealer,see if there is any way he can get a 555 here to demo too.He is still able to order from Naim,he is working a little bit still from his house,so I don't know if he can still get demo products,then return them,without having an actual store.

NM I just saw your in Windsor I spent a few nights there at Caesar's, there's no dealers over the bridge in Detroit or little north in Michigan?...if not go to Chicago or a 4hr drive east into Toronto

I can probably find one in Michigan,but I know for sure they are in the Toronto area.

Also i always think that a  372 is natural next step for classical line....

that pairs with 300DR and 555PS..

so 555PS will be future proof....

I am now intrigued by the Audioquest Diamond Ethernet cable,one of those between a new Core and the 272 might be something special.