NAP 300DR trade for older NAP 500

Darke Bear posted:

Ok - that is informative. So the DR redeems the NAP 500 to its correct position in the Naim hierarchy?

 

Absolutely! As I said before, I think (based on extensive listening on multiple systems, but your mileage may vary...) that the order was 500 - 300 - 300DR - 500DR. A smallish but important gap between 500 and 300. A very big step from 300 to 300DR. And smallish but still very important gap from 300DR to 500DR

Yes, DR has clearly fixed whatever it was I didnt like in 500. And fixed it completely. It is now one of the finest power amps around. It is probably very close indeed to the S1Power - indeed, it might even be *better* unless you need the 1HP of the S1Power. 

jon honeyball posted:

just to be controversial... my ordering in increasing quality is:

500, 300, 300DR, 500DR

Going from a 300DR to a 500 seems to me to be a significant backstep. 

Now people will squeal that the 500 is better than the 300. Its bigger, more powerful, but it simply doesnt time as well. However, it doesnt matter what you think of 500 or 300, and the relative qualities of both -- a 300DR is streaks ahead of either.

Ahah, so adding SL speaker cables to my 300DR based system has probably got it to a 500 (non-DR) level. I have always hankered for a 500, pesky lack of money in retirement though, and I might just have got there after all.

(Irony)

For me the  XPSDR makes a very real difference to a 272. I was ho hum on a 272/300DR when i heard it. Ok, but nothing magical, then the psu went in, bingo, different animal altogether. I'm sure the 555PSDR is better still.

I'm sure I read a review somewhere that concluded that the difference between the bare 272 and one with a XPS was greater than that between one with an XPS and one with a 555PS. I have never heard the 272 with a 555PS, so all I can say is that I felt the difference the XPS makes is sufficient to get me to spend £3,000 of my own money on one. As Gary says above, the XPS transforms the 272 into something else entirely, and something that inhabits a higher plane. 

I'm surprised that Greekspec found that the difference was no bigger than that wrought by an Ethernet cable, but then I'm also surprised that he found the 272/555PS little different to an NDS/552. While I am a great fan of the 272, having owned a 552 and a CDS3/555PS (which is the equivalent, more or less, of the NDS/555PS) there is no way I'd suggest that there is a little different. But then I wouldn't use a 500 with a 272 either. Maybe I'm just old and out of touch. 

Hi have been reading the bits of threads here I own a 272 driven by a 555ps and this drives an older NAP500 - this combination works brilliantly ..... the 500 was a huge improvement on the 250DR. The 272 is very capable - the 555ps was a really big upgrade. I don't know how it compares to NDX/252 .......... I do not hesitate in recommending the 272 with the 555ps, however, I would imagine the likes of the NDS and 252/552 would blow it away..... 

No offence meant to Hungryhalibut here,but he did say that he has never heard the 555ps on the 272...and the 2 members that have either demoed or own it say it is a really big step up,has me thinking it might be worth pursuing at the very least,a demo with both,before committing to the xpsdr,which i will do.

All in all for what it's worth from hearing opinions about certain setups I had the chance to listen to a few different setups the other day that de-bunked a few curiositys for myself, the biggest one was how a N272/555PS non-DR held up pretty damn good to a 552 non-Dr/NDS 555PS non-DR on the front end of a NAP 500 with full SL loom and Carbon Fibre S-800's ' which I wouldn't mind a pair' and the little gain's to my ears for an extra $60,000usd should of made me fall over.

N272 is a very fine product indeed. Not sure I would put a 555PS on it, but an XPS would certainly be in the running, simple in terms of "what could I do with the other 3 grand instead of having the 555ps" factor

jon honeyball posted:

Darke Bear posted:

Ok - that is informative. So the DR redeems the NAP 500 to its correct position in the Naim hierarchy?

Absolutely! As I said before, I think (based on extensive listening on multiple systems, but your mileage may vary...) that the order was 500 - 300 - 300DR - 500DR. A smallish but important gap between 500 and 300. A very big step from 300 to 300DR. And smallish but still very important gap from 300DR to 500DR

Yes, DR has clearly fixed whatever it was I didn't like in 500. And fixed it completely. It is now one of the finest power amps around. It is probably very close indeed to the S1Power - indeed, it might even be *better* unless you need the 1HP of the S1Power. 

Very interesting perspective Jon - thanks.

Different views and personal priorities exist on all this by the different choices people make after demos, but this clarifies, in my mind anyway, all of this.

DB.

Welcome, DB -- my "money no limits but lets not be silly" system of today would be a NDS + 555PS + Townshend Allegri + 500DR + Magico S5 MK2. I have spent hours listening to this at MC's house. And it simply bends reality in the way it does everything but with 30dB less hash/grunge/noise/interference. Each component has its place there. NDS/555PS is best digital playback, but I would be playing back my own 192k/24bit recordings for highest quality and "known sound". S1Pre versus Allegri? A tough choice -- that S1Pre can even stand alongside the stark beautiful minimalist simplicity of a switched autotransformer is stunning. 500PS versus S1Power? I'd probably plump for 500PS -- I havent heard S1Power on Magico S5 Mk2, but spent a lot of time listening to S1Power with Magico S5 MK1. 500DR + Magico Mk2 is better. whether there is another inch to be gained from S1Power + Magico Mk2 is an intruiging question. And Magicos leave everything for dust in the way they have been engineered using 2016/7 thinking. 

That system is what I would replace my current olive/dbl system with, because it does *everything* that DBL does without compromise, and everything else too 

"no limits spend" would be NDS/555PS/S1Pre/S1Power/Magico S5Mk2 I think... with SL line level interconnects and NACA5 speaker cable. 

But then I like a little milk in Earl Grey tea....

No quarter posted:

No offence meant to Hungryhalibut here,but he did say that he has never heard the 555ps on the 272...and the 2 members that have either demoed or own it say it is a really big step up,has me thinking it might be worth pursuing at the very least,a demo with both,before committing to the xpsdr,which i will do.

Gosh, it takes a lot to offend me! All I was getting at is that, to me, the XPS makes a huge difference. I have no doubt that the 555PS is better still. 

Having owned a CDS3 and 552/300 in the past, I certainly don't feel that I'm slumming it with the 272, XPS and 250, but then I've not heard the two setups side by side at the same time. 

To me, the system I have is perfectly balanced and I certainly wouldn't think of a 500 without an NDS and 552, but the fact that the 500 is working so well for others only serves to show how capable the humble 272 really is. Who'd have imagined using a £3000 streaming preamp with a £20,000 power amp? But things change, clearly. 

Hungryhalibut posted:

No quarter posted:

No offence meant to Hungryhalibut here,but he did say that he has never heard the 555ps on the 272...and the 2 members that have either demoed or own it say it is a really big step up,has me thinking it might be worth pursuing at the very least,a demo with both,before committing to the xpsdr,which i will do.

Gosh, it takes a lot to offend me! All I was getting at is that, to me, the XPS makes a huge difference. I have no doubt that the 555PS is better still. 

Having owned a CDS3 and 552/300 in the past, I certainly don't feel that I'm slumming it with the 272, XPS and 250, but then I've not heard the two setups side by side at the same time. 

To me, the system I have is perfectly balanced and I certainly wouldn't think of a 500 without an NDS and 552, but the fact that the 500 is working so well for others only serves to show how capable the humble 272 really is. Who'd have imagined using a £3000 streaming preamp with a £20,000 power amp? But things change, clearly. 

Hungryhalibut  I know the thread is about trading a 300dr for a 500,but he also brought up the 272 comparison,which got me interested.My speakers are 8 ohm,92 DB ,so are quite an easy load for the 250 dr,i don't plan on changing the amp,but getting the most out of the front end would follow the logic of recommendations here on the forum,I would hate to get the xps,and always wonder what if...are you not curious?

Not really. It may be a bit better, but £3,000 spare is something I don't have and anyway, the XPS is the 272's natural partner. 

Nice to hear that my front end of NDS/555, Townshend Allegri has other fans!

Hi I think hh has a good point....I would never spend 6k on a psu.....however I purchased mine sh for 2k...... a fantastic upgrade at that price. When I connected 555ps it was jaw droppingly better......

I manage to buy a sh nap500 this was far far cheaper than a 300dr....so for me was a no brainer. Again I would never go out and pay 20k for an amp .....and put a 3.5k front end on it .... But again this was a massive improvement over the 250dr ..... an omg moment. The 272 is very capable....I have no doubt the 552 and NDS.....would be amazing.....I am waiting for my lottery numbers .....!!!

The thing is for me,i am getting the xps dr basically at dealer cost,kind of a favor to me before he closed the store,so if i were to change my mind,i am not sure i could get such a deal on the 555,but i would still like to hear both,then make a decision.

No quarter posted:

The thing is for me,i am getting the xps dr basically at dealer cost,kind of a favor to me before he closed the store,so if i were to change my mind,i am not sure i could get such a deal on the 555,but i would still like to hear both,then make a decision.

with the right friend you can get a 555PS-DR for cheaper than a full retail XPS-DR

Ok,does this mean I would need oven mits to install it...cause it might be a bit warm?,lol.

 

with the right friend you can get a 555PS-DR for cheaper than a full retail XPS-DR

A 555PS-DR at dealer's cost is still more expensive than a full retail XPS-DR. The former would have to be a 2012 S/H DR or a DR'd unit. 

Chag -

Chag... posted:

 

with the right friend you can get a 555PS-DR for cheaper than a full retail XPS-DR

A 555PS-DR at dealer's cost is still more expensive than a full retail XPS-DR. The former would have to be a 2012 S/H DR or a DR'd unit. 

Chag -

no sure your dealer discount is but it can be had for $275usd cheaper................

I am or can get an xpsdr (new) for 4,115 US dollars,are you saying I can get a 555 dr cheaper than that somewhere?if so,where?

no I said a discounted 555PS-DR $275 cheaper than a XPS-DR full msrp

jon honeyball posted:

Welcome, DB -- my "money no limits but lets not be silly" system of today would be a NDS + 555PS + Townshend Allegri + 500DR + Magico S5 MK2. I have spent hours listening to this at MC's house. And it simply bends reality in the way it does everything but with 30dB less hash/grunge/noise/interference. Each component has its place there. NDS/555PS is best digital playback, but I would be playing back my own 192k/24bit recordings for highest quality and "known sound". S1Pre versus Allegri? A tough choice -- that S1Pre can even stand alongside the stark beautiful minimalist simplicity of a switched autotransformer is stunning. 500PS versus S1Power? I'd probably plump for 500PS -- I havent heard S1Power on Magico S5 Mk2, but spent a lot of time listening to S1Power with Magico S5 MK1. 500DR + Magico Mk2 is better. whether there is another inch to be gained from S1Power + Magico Mk2 is an intruiging question. And Magicos leave everything for dust in the way they have been engineered using 2016/7 thinking. 

That system is what I would replace my current olive/dbl system with, because it does *everything* that DBL does without compromise, and everything else too 

"no limits spend" would be NDS/555PS/S1Pre/S1Power/Magico S5Mk2 I think... with SL line level interconnects and NACA5 speaker cable. 

But then I like a little milk in Earl Grey tea....

I live 20mins from the Magico factory but never been, guess my wife's enjoying them....