Mac Mini?

The OS has little to do with fule economy, My windows 7 pc uses 23/25 watts and without ever catching a virus. The office pc which is used by many others and when I check the history, is used to trawl the very depths of the murky ocean seems fine so far.

George - Are you seriously contemplating giving up broadband and going back to dial-up?  Whenever I read one of your posts I always think of the track "Eccentric Man" by the Groundhogs. :-)

The virus thing is real enough if you have bad luck! Necessarily the anti-virus protection is re-actionary. The virus has to get into the real world before something can be done with an update that stops it.

Talking to a PC salesman, he had to admit that there is no 100% effective protection even on such popular pages as Autotrader or eBay, and even innocent emails from known senders can carry something eviil in any fowarded attachment. My Aunt often sends these!

The other is BB versus dail-up. If I don't need to do more than check emails and send then there is no reason to retain BB. Mine elapses on 24th August, so plenty of time to put the Coda in place on the Carlton Thread!

A little USB modem should suffice.

Less important but true is that the operating system has next to no effect on electricity consumption. What does is running something that requires a good deal of heat dissipation, achieved with strong and noisy fans. The Mini does not have room for a big fan! And the only program that will runs for long periods is iTunes, so fairly well specced for such a simple task. But still a fraction of the cost of a thorough-bred CD player.I shall try to get an instal that only runs the Mac browser and iTunes, to keep it light for a quick boot up from off.

ATB from George

George,

I am no computer expert. I have owned a Dell Desktop PC of pretty good spec. when we had our business, and we now have a Samsung Netbook instead. I certainly wouldn't want a Desktop in the lounge (appearance/fan noise) if I could avoid it. The Netbook is really neat and compact, easy to use on one's lap while in the armchair (as now), and just so much less intrusive. I have not found any limitations compared to the desktop - we bought an external USB optical drive, and I have used quite a bit of downloaded Freeware (audio/video stuff mainly), all without incident. We use Microsoft Security Essentials for protection, available from their site as a free download. Only once had a minor problem with a bogus security suite which installed itself from one site - just did a system restore to get rid of it. Otherwise no issues at all - everything works well. I don't know about Macs, but are they any less prone to viruses than PC's running Windows? I've always thought of Macs as the equivalent of Betamax video recorders! Probably technically superior in some ways, but just out-of-step with the majority. But as I say, I'm no expert and others will probably guide you better than I. I do think you'll miss BB if you dispense with it though - and don't dismiss a Netbook as an alternative to a Mac mini.

Peter

Dear Peter,

I did a quick rekie in PC World on what can be had as a lappy, and indeed one such [Dell, HP, or Cmpac for example] could be had for half the price of a mini, and even less if you consider the need for an HDMI compatible screen. But I am examining all the options while I can. The cycle insurance claim should be finalised in the next fortnight or three weeks, and then this change will be made, but all advice is readily considered.

It will be my one spurge, before I put the cheque-book back in place for the moths!

ATB from George

George,

Certainly it makes sense to carefully evaluate your options before taking the plunge. Your computing needs are very basic, so you shouldn't need to spend a great deal to find something that easily fills your requirements. It might be worth looking at on-line deals from manufacturers such as Dell or Apple, where very often a machine can be configured to exactly match your specific needs. You may be able to negotiate a very favourable price if you insist on rejecting the bundle of software that is often included "free" with machines, most of which will be of little or no use to you. There is so much excellent downloadable stuff available genuinely for free that it really isn't worth paying for most things!  Most if not all the components of the Microsoft Office suite for example, which sells for around £70 I think, have free counterparts. They may not have quite the extended functionality of the Microsoft stuff, but unless your needs are very demanding you will never need anything better. It really is one of the biggest "cons" of our time.  It's analogous to all the functionality with TV's etc. After initial set-up, most people will only ever use on/off, volume and channel select!  And manufacturers will be desperate to have your custom, such is the competitiveness of the market. So don't fall for the "for only £20 extra we can include x, y and z" routine. Insist that they give you x, y and z for free or you'll take your custom elsewhere! As I said, I'm certainly no expert on computers, but this has been my experience and conclusions so far. Dealers can spot a computer "novice" a mile off, and they will relentlessly attempt to blind you with pseudo-science, insisting that you will be severely disadvantaged if you do not buy this that or the other. Good luck, hope you end up with something that pleases you - let us know.

Peter

I've had 2 friends over the last 2 years finally go to Mac because of all the shenanigans and viruses. of Windows.  Their main objection was always too expensive.  One had both PC and Mac going and after 2 months he just shut the PC off once he got emails and websites on Mac.

The other friend I gave a mini and my old flat screen but he had to buy a new cable because the old screen had a huge adapter, the mini a very small one.   Both these guys love being on Mac and not worrying about updates and viri, worms and ugly critters.  You'll adapt in no time.

Mac Mini for me?

Very good decision - you'll never regret upgrading away from Microsoft. 

That said although Windows 7 is pretty poor compared with OS X or Linux when it comes to security and stability - if you don't download things then even if should stay virus free. 

dial up becomes the order of the day, I can see no obstacles,

Poor performance, large phone bill when downloading attachments, lack of ISPs who will continue to support this obsolete technology ... I have nothing good to say about dial-up - you'll hate it George honestly especially when the phone bill arrives. 

Other options

Brennan JB7 may be exactly what you're after, it could store and play the 400 or so CDs  you love in uncompressed format and let you play back through your headphones. No Internet connection required as they supply the titles/composer on CD (2.4 million entries).

You could investigating turning your existing computer in to a Vortexbox - you'd need to convert your files to FLAC, but plenty of packages that could do this. You could play out of the USB port into your Aune DAC. Vortexbox comes at a reasonable price - absolutely free. You will not get viruses with it as it is Linux based. 

Caution

Unlike Windows, Mac and Linux computers don't catch viruses - it is impossible to write a virus for them. However, this does not mean you can't get other types of malicious program on a Mac or Linux computer. It is easy to build a website that can drop nasty code on to any of these devices and to send the unsuspecting user an e-mail that entices them to visit. e-mail saying please click here to hear newly discovered Bach cello work; we desperately need your help as expert in this matter to validate its authenticity - sure enough it does play something, but in the meantime is implanting its nasty stuff on your PC, Mac or Linux computer - can you stop this: yes, but not easily without using a third party service, which can be expensive. If only ISPs would filter this kind of skulduggery out to protect the consumer as many do from Spam on e-mail, but no luck so far. That said if your are lucky enough to work for a company that has such protection you may find you can install home use protection for free. 

All the best with your choice. I will, of course, say Apple products are better than Microsoft ones. It is not just prejudice that makes me say that, but years of experience. Though I'll openly declare I detest Microsoft because of personal experience, so my commentary is not unbiased. 

All the best, Guy

I'm a Mac and Windows 7 was my idea - SJ

@George

New Mac Mini is lovely but unfortunately is a real pain to install as a headless Vortexbox or Linux server due to firmware restrictions. That said I since I appear to be the only one who might want to do this I can see why Steve hasn't got me on speed-dial just yet.

Aside from this minor quirk the Mini has two things going for it: it is beautiful and it runs OSX.

Actually I can see you with a Macbook Air.....

Job done

Tog

I used to use dial-up, and never had a large phone bill, because I never bothered with the attachments! Even emails with large photo files were turned off, before a twenty minute session trying to downlaod them.

If email is used somewhat like a longer version of phone text mesaaging, then it can be useful even on dial-up. It is a way of divorcing myself from the internet, which is like TV in that 99 % is a complete waste of time!

The real thing is me considering spending the extra money for a Mac over a PC, but I have never been entirely happy with any PC, and if iTunes is preloaded onto a Mac then actually there is no reason for the machine to ever be connected to the net at all. The emails could be handled by my veteran PC for as long as it keeps going ... and when it dies, then a little notebook sized machine is now very cheap for the task, if the mood took me. Perhaps I would give up even on emails when the PC actually does throw in the towel.

I like the idea of a dedicated system for music, and for those who might say that a Mac is overspecced for the task, and as such rather an expensive piece to use for the job, all I would say is that as a digital music source with an off-board DAC it is capable of performing as well as an entry level Naim CD player in essential details, Given that simple consideration, it suddenly appears good value. I like the iTunes user interface, and as I have it arranged - viewed as a list of musical titles - it has become like a large electronic card index of my music [no art-work is saved as it is not something I have any interest in], and one that has a very sharp "search engine" so that I can track down any piece of music I have with sometimes just one word, and rarely more than two or three. A wonderful catalogue device that only addds to the ease and pleasure of using the system. I have no interest in running with an iTouch or iPad, for the extra costs, Something else to fall off the coffee table and get marked or broken, and to charge the battery on from time to time ...

I am coming to the conclusion that hand written letters are both a greater pleasure to compose and read than any email. The best ones stay will you for the rest of your life. The same cannot be said for emails, where however significant, they get deleted eventually. Perhaps I should have printed them all out and saved them in hard copy, but even the emails that came and went over the death of my mother nearly twelve months ago are now all gone. The letters - had they existed - would have gone into the bottom draw of my filing cabinet.

ATB from George

Dear Simon,

All it will do is run iTunes. It will never connected to the net, as the old PC can handle that while it still lives. As I say, if the old PC yields up the ghost, then I'll review staying connected in toto.

Well it will have to play DVDs as well. But I am loosing the will to be connected to the internet! The work of transferring all my music to iTunes is done, so any new CDs, transferred, can be hand titled rather than using "gracenote" over the net. 

ATB from George

Dear George

I think you have your mind set on what you would like to do and your post is tell us your plans rather than asking for advice. 

I suggested the Brennan JB7 because of its simplicity - all it will do is play your music from its internal hard disk - no frills such as artwork. It is not the last word in hi-fi, but that is not what I thought you sought. It will drive your headphones or a pair of loudspeakers if you wish. It does not require your external DAC so you could even recoup money on that.

As you have said you are considering not having Internet access at all and would use the Mac only to play music then the JB7 at half the price seemed a viable alternative.  Also you have no need of an external display or keyboard. 

Different folk will always have different preferences. I prefer electronic communications to hand written mail with the exception of birthday and Christmas cards. Some hand writing (mine) is hard to read. However, I can understand a different point of view - no Internet means no more forum.

I would prefer no Internet to dial-up. If going back to dial-up was the only option then I wouldn't bother with home Internet at all. I'd just visit the Library if I wanted to send or receive an e-mail. Of course switching from a land line to a good mobile phone package might enable to view text e-mails or text messages. 

However, whatever you choose to do I wish you best of luck with it. 

All the very best, Guy 

Dear Guy,

I definitely have not decided what to do. Really I was looking for someone to post a very good reason for not getting a Mini - one that had not occured to me. The cost has .. For sure, unless I get some such suggestion, then I'll ponder such a purchase long and hard, and after say a month or two, then I'll know if I could live with such a price, in terms of still enjoying the music, and films. Given that I know the quality that iTunes can give even with my modest little DAC, there is no way that I would want to decrees the quality of the source, though fancy speakers and amplification are not necessary for me, But one you loose quality at the source, nothing can ever recover the situation. I doubt a £100 DAc of two years of age would be worth as much as the postage to sell!

As for the internet, I have enjoyed some of it over the years. Rarely have I visited sites other than Naim, Hotmail, eBay, Amazon or other pages where I could buy music or cycle parts. Even Wiki is rather frustrating!. As for the Forum, there are so few of the old school left, that I feel like a dynosaur here these days!

Whatever I do then I shall still need a keyboard to use the iTunes search engine, and for watching DVDs then a screen is necessary, and it is hard to navigate a long list as my iTunes library without a quite large screen, even if it is often turned off once the music starts. Most laptop screens vary in colour so much when viewed from different hieghts that I find they soon become unwatchable, if that is a word. Also no good for watching if I am on my side on the settee, as the two eyes get a sufficiently different effect because of the vertical difference to be almost headache inducing within minutes, so any sort of laptop is not so useful in my view. Simple miniature DVD players are available, fitted with built in six or seven inch screens for little money these days. I have no idea how good the picture might be be - awful I expect!

Anyway it is at the thought stage at the moment. Not fixed at all, though my preference is clear enough!

ATB from George

George,

I think Guy's suggestion of the Brennan JB7 is a really excellent one. This would fit your requirements perfectly. It has built-in amplification and it's really small and compact. It does just what you want - plays music from its hard drive with no fuss, no extra bits and pieces, just a pair of speakers. Presumably it has an Aux input, so for DVD's all you'd need would be a basic player (around £25 from Tesco) and some kind of display. You may feel differently of course, but it seems to me that a Mac, or computer of any sort for that matter, is really not the most appropriate bit of kit for the job, especially as you won't be using 99% of its functionality. I know when I can afford it (long time off) the Brennan is probably what I'll get. I think the Denton 2XP's were well regarded in their time - I have vague memories - they are pretty much classic budget speakers. From what I can remember they have a bit of a pronounced "boxy" colouration, as did nearly all budget speakers then, but they were lovely and warm sounding - very forgiving and pleasant. If you have a good pair then hold on to them!

Peter

+1

But imagine the consequences for George, well for all of us, if the Brennan really was fuss free 

Chris

I must admit that the knock out punch may well be the Brennan! That is the sort of left-field suggestion I was looking for! It will be four weeks before I move on this, at the earliest, even so.

Thanks for the replies!

ATB from George

PS: The Dentons are sadly too ill to sort out. Both bass-drivers are ruined. They suddenly went quiet apparently at a party, and so it was a long shot! I took the bas driver units units out and tried powering them direct. Nothing, and instead of moving freely when pressed, they both make a crunchy sound, so I guess the coils melted after a time being over-driven. The cabinets are in nice condition, but that would not justify trying to source spare drivers as one of the treble drivers is also no use. It works after a fashion, but with a crackling halo of additional distortion, obviously as connected through the cross-over circuit inside the cabinet.

Re: the Dentons.

In the Brennan ad on p2+3 in the latest edition of a well known allegedly satirical magazine, a pair of "2x50W bookshelf speakers" are available for an extra £62. No reason why you shouldn't invert one atop the other. 

Chris

Reasons to like iTunes for. Easy to use without any seeming compromise on replay quality that seems obvious [in isolation] to me. Performance on a similar level to the junior Naim CD players as I have it arranged.

Then there is the access to the music. with between 500 and 600 CDs contained,Tthe indexing needs to be very precise for this to avoid some music being left out in the cold,-  as good as lost. Here - post below - is part of the list for Franz Schubert ...

20 plus hours of it. This page is but about an eighth of the track's off CDs I have from Schubert. The titling is highly detailed, and this degree of detail is crucial to getting to individual pieces of music. If I want the B Flat Piano Sonata [D 960], I put 960 into the search engine and up come the two performances I have by Curzon and Schnabel. To narrow it down I would put 960 and the name of the artist. The trouble is that most systems more or less require you to know the album title, and in the world of the classics this is frequently something as divorced from the music title as EMI Schubert Edition, Volume 27. Clearly that kind of searching will reveal nothing useful to me as I know the music titles by heart throughout all of 26 days' worth of recordings, but would not have the first clue of the album titles!

As I listen by the work, and no by album title, or even particularly by artist, what I do is dial in the work title or its publisher catalogue number, and when the search is refined down to that work, then I choose between say the conducting of Klemperer, Kubelic, or Beecham!

It is a method that leaves nothing lost or out in the cold for long.

But it requires a very strong tagging system to work. iTunes has this, and so having done the work of setting up such detailed titling - tagging - over the last two years now with nearly 25,000 adjustments to over 7000 track tags, I suspect that preserving this work may well be worth a few bob!

Dear Real Hifi,

I suspect you have made another very helpful suggestion with this. An iMac, which of course is blessed with a great screen I know, is something that I'll go and experiement in the shop shortly. My sister in law has one, though years old now.

In reality the device may be capable of much more, but what it must be priced against is a system for decent DVD replay, and something strong enough to handle my heavy demands with respect to tagging and search engine use in iTunes. I realise that I am probably unique, so far, on the Forum in having totally adopted iTunes for a complete collection of classical recordings. I find that iTunes has completely enhanced my ability to enjoy a very wide collection of music, bec ause I can find what I know is there in seconds, rather rooting about for CDs that someone else has put back in an unexpected place ....

ATB from George

Dear Gary,

What is stunning is the almost consistent nonsense talked by sales agents. If you do not know better they will almost all sell you the most exxpensive thing they can regardless of suitability or requirements as explained. It is why I hate buying things at all, and hum and hah for ages, and then still sometimes buy the wrong thing when I am out of my comfort zone. Sometimes I have been lucky and struck gold first time - as with the Aune USB DAC - but not always. It is why I like solid names like Volvo, Naim, amd Mac. Nowadays, I have nothing from this trio of respected manufactureres, because though they make spelndid things they at a big cost premium. Generally these companies - and many others like them - provide products that do what they supposed to well and with little fuss, and if things go wrong there is enough good after sales service to see it right. The other approach is to buy at the cheapest and from the most competitive sources, and suck it and see. Only to be done if a complete loss on the purchase can be accepted though.

Strangely cycle parts are unproblematic compared to computers and audio. Perhaps their very simplicity means that you can see exactly what you are getting so the bulls**t factor is much reduced!

It has made me think that one should investigate at least the cheapest options possible - hence the hesitation here - as at least small cost mistakes are less ruinous than expensive ones. But the contra argument runs that if you buy suitable reknown makers' products, and you get good advice, ultimately you get something better, that should be durable and suited to the task.

It is an impossible question to answer in general way.

ATB from George