NAC-N-272 vs ND5-XS + NAC 202/HICAP/NAPSC

Hey Y'all

I have decided to purchase the ND5-XS. It will be an upgrade from the Qute. There is more functionality, and likely an increase in SQ. It also gives easier access for the rest of the family to enjoy music.  I have only purchased the NAC202/HC/NAPSC about 2.5 years ago, and they dont sell for that much now. 

Then I will have the ND5-XS > NAC202/HC/NAPSC > NAP200 > HARBETH P3ESR. Nothing to complain about i would say.

Thanks for the reactions.

Cheers, Ronald

ps. I will post the my findings as soon it is all connected up!

Good decision.

nickpeacock posted:

prutser posted:

I had my doubts as well, if the ND5 would be a best match for the 202/200. After this upcoming purchase i do not intend to upgrade more (that is the intention though) The possibilities with naim are endless, and there is always a way to upgrade in some way. Not really sure if that is good, if you have the "intention" not to upgrade ;-)

So it starts looking more going towards the 272, which allows me to get rid of the 202, and feed my stageline with the hicap. 2 boxes less.

The headphone amp is also very nice benefit.

Cheers

Sorry Ronald - I posted without seeing your reply.

The 272 route is tried and tested - enjoy the journey and let us know what you end up doing!

I have decided to go for a ND5-XS. And should receive it coming week. SQ would perhaps been better with the 272, but I upgraded from the Qute. The ND5 will hopefully be better than that, and also gives me a few extra benefits, being spotify, volume control etc.

I would also throw money away selling the NAC 202 after 2 years. 

Cheers, Ronald

prutser posted:

nickpeacock posted:

prutser posted:

I had my doubts as well, if the ND5 would be a best match for the 202/200. After this upcoming purchase i do not intend to upgrade more (that is the intention though) The possibilities with naim are endless, and there is always a way to upgrade in some way. Not really sure if that is good, if you have the "intention" not to upgrade ;-)

So it starts looking more going towards the 272, which allows me to get rid of the 202, and feed my stageline with the hicap. 2 boxes less.

The headphone amp is also very nice benefit.

Cheers

Sorry Ronald - I posted without seeing your reply.

The 272 route is tried and tested - enjoy the journey and let us know what you end up doing!

I have decided to go for a ND5-XS. And should receive it coming week. SQ would perhaps been better with the 272, but I upgraded from the Qute. The ND5 will hopefully be better than that, and also gives me a few extra benefits, being spotify, volume control etc.

I would also throw money away selling the NAC 202 after 2 years. 

Cheers, Ronald

 

 

Congrats - I owned an ND5 XS once upon a time and it's a great product. You've got the option of a PSU upgrade later on if you decide to go down that path - I've read that the XP5 XS brings the ND5 above the level of an NDX but YMMV. In any event it would make a nice cosmetic match.

prutser posted:

nickpeacock posted:

prutser posted:

I had my doubts as well, if the ND5 would be a best match for the 202/200. After this upcoming purchase i do not intend to upgrade more (that is the intention though) The possibilities with naim are endless, and there is always a way to upgrade in some way. Not really sure if that is good, if you have the "intention" not to upgrade ;-)

So it starts looking more going towards the 272, which allows me to get rid of the 202, and feed my stageline with the hicap. 2 boxes less.

The headphone amp is also very nice benefit.

Cheers

Sorry Ronald - I posted without seeing your reply.

The 272 route is tried and tested - enjoy the journey and let us know what you end up doing!

I have decided to go for a ND5-XS. And should receive it coming week. SQ would perhaps been better with the 272, but I upgraded from the Qute. The ND5 will hopefully be better than that, and also gives me a few extra benefits, being spotify, volume control etc.

I would also throw money away selling the NAC 202 after 2 years. 

Cheers, Ronald

 

 

I ran something similar (including those speakers) for a while - great stuff. You'll be so enthralled with listening to great music you won't have time to tell us all!

My ND5-XS is now playing for about 2 weeks now, including my new harbeth P3esr's . The increased detail coming from the ND5 is a great improvement!  Much better separation between instruments and vocals.  The spotify function allows me to explore even more music, and it sounds fantastic.

The new P3esr where never part of this thread, but still worth mentioning. Love them!

Cheers!

prutser posted:

Hello,

The titel already reveals my question.  I am currently using my Qute into my NAC202 (with hicap&napsc) /NAP200 combination. I am selling my Qute, and looking for a replacement streamer. The NDX is too expensive, and my choice would be the ND5-XS.

But now we have also the 272, which then could replace all  these boxes. Would i make a step back?

I like reducing the amount of boxes, but that is not too much of an issue. 

Anybody an idea?

Regards, Ronald

 

 

 

Dont know that I would swap the nd5-xs pre section for the mighty 202 with napsc and hicap...Probably time to get a demo with a dealer before giving up the 202 .  Unless you are into a more minimal system  ? 

ndx202- posted:

prutser posted:

Hello,

The titel already reveals my question.  I am currently using my Qute into my NAC202 (with hicap&napsc) /NAP200 combination. I am selling my Qute, and looking for a replacement streamer. The NDX is too expensive, and my choice would be the ND5-XS.

But now we have also the 272, which then could replace all  these boxes. Would i make a step back?

I like reducing the amount of boxes, but that is not too much of an issue. 

Anybody an idea?

Regards, Ronald

 

 

 

Dont know that I would swap the nd5-xs pre section for the mighty 202 with napsc and hicap...Probably time to get a demo with a dealer before giving up the 202 .  Unless you are into a more minimal system  ? 

The ND5 XS doesn't have a pre section, did you mean the 272, which does?

ChrisSU posted:

ndx202- posted:

prutser posted:

Hello,

The titel already reveals my question.  I am currently using my Qute into my NAC202 (with hicap&napsc) /NAP200 combination. I am selling my Qute, and looking for a replacement streamer. The NDX is too expensive, and my choice would be the ND5-XS.

But now we have also the 272, which then could replace all  these boxes. Would i make a step back?

I like reducing the amount of boxes, but that is not too much of an issue. 

Anybody an idea?

Regards, Ronald

 

 

 

Dont know that I would swap the nd5-xs pre section for the mighty 202 with napsc and hicap...Probably time to get a demo with a dealer before giving up the 202 .  Unless you are into a more minimal system  ? 

The ND5 XS doesn't have a pre section, did you mean the 272, which does?

Sorry got confused with the models sorry Ronald

nickpeacock posted:

prutser posted:

Hello,

The titel already reveals my question.  I am currently using my Qute into my NAC202 (with hicap&napsc) /NAP200 combination. I am selling my Qute, and looking for a replacement streamer. The NDX is too expensive, and my choice would be the ND5-XS.

But now we have also the 272, which then could replace all  these boxes. Would i make a step back?

I like reducing the amount of boxes, but that is not too much of an issue. 

Anybody an idea?

Regards, Ronald

 

 

 

Always worth looking ahead a bit - there's nothing remotely wrong with either of your suggestions, but their "logical" end points are as follows:

1. The 272 is highly regarded by forum folk in combination with Nap 250DR and XPSDR. Three boxes and a big grin.

2. The ND5XS can be used with an outboard Dac (see a current thread on this very point) or an external PSU (the XP5 XS) and then may be upgraded to NDX. Your very fine 202/200/HC/Napsc combination allows almost endless upgrading piece by piece but you would only reduce the amp box count - from 4 to 3 - when you get to 252/SC/250 and wave farewell (in my case joyfully) to the Napsc. So, compared with option 1, more than three boxes and a (potentially bigger) big grin.

I went down the latter route, often buying used and selling my pieces off on the way to defray some of the cost.

I would take a hard listen or see if you can get a 272 on home demo. My suspician is that it will perform better than the ND5-XS/202/etc combo. I am blown away by mine and I did listen to many more expensive options. With the XPS I think the performance is much closer to NDX/282 than ND5-XS/202 - but let your own ears decide.

Huge has posted some comparisons of ND5XS and 272.

My own experience is only of ND5XS, which is that XP5XS isn't worth the money, a far better upgrade being to add Hugo as an external DAC - costs less, too. I also found that Audirvana on Mac Mini outperformed ND5XS as a renderer, with the added benefit of being able to store music in the MM and avoid streaming files across a network, however that may not be the most cost effective approach if you already have a good (silent) NAS - but is certainly something to consider if you haven't. Other similar options include the Melco N1A, and maybe the new Uniti Core, although there is conflicting assessment of the latter, one (Phil Harris) saying it is indistinguishable from NDX (to him in his system), and another suggesting it isn't as good (reportedly said by a Naim rep at an exhibition IIRC).

IB,

I believe the question of whether an external PSU is worthwhile on the ND5 XS will depend on the listener and where their listening priorities lie.  In my case I added a Cuddly Toy PSU, and for me it was a very worthwhile upgrade; however I can also see how some people it would consider it of little benefit.

The main changes that I found when adding the PSU were to do with detail and differentiation:

There was more detail in the sound, so I could hear things that, without the PSU, were masked in the general soundscape.

There was better differentiation of orchestral timbres - individual instruments were easier to distinguish within the general soundscape.

Finally, I found it quite a but easier to distinguish the words in lyrics.

However I didn't find any significant difference in overall presentation, overall musical involvement or 'PRaT'; but, importantly, it didn't diminish these aspects either.  If you're specifically looking for improvements in these areas then the PSU will be a disappointment.

Of course, the impact of adding a Naim power supply, rather than a third party one that will have unpredictable effects, may be entirely different. 

Innocent Bystander posted:

...

Other similar options include the Melco N1A, and maybe the new Uniti Core, although there is conflicting assessment of the latter, one (Phil Harris) saying it is indistinguishable from NDX (to him in his system), and another suggesting it isn't as good (reportedly said by a Naim rep at an exhibition IIRC).

 

I'm not sure that comparing a UnitiCore to an NDX is comparing like for like; the NDX has analogue outputs as well as S/Pdif, where as the Uniti Core only has Ethernet and S/Pdif, hence the NDX has it's own DAC, where as the Uniti Core needs to be coupled to an external DAC.

Furthermore, the effect of coupling particular renderers (e.g. using the NDX as just a renderer) to particular DACs via S/Pdif is going to vary dependant on the particular combination of both renderer and DAC that are paired up.

Huge posted:

Innocent Bystander posted:

...

Other similar options include the Melco N1A, and maybe the new Uniti Core, although there is conflicting assessment of the latter, one (Phil Harris) saying it is indistinguishable from NDX (to him in his system), and another suggesting it isn't as good (reportedly said by a Naim rep at an exhibition IIRC).

 

I'm not sure that comparing a UnitiCore to an NDX is comparing like for like; the NDX has analogue outputs as well as S/Pdif, where as the Uniti Core only has Ethernet and S/Pdif, hence the NDX has it's own DAC, where as the Uniti Core needs to be coupled to an external DAC.

Furthermore, the effect of coupling particular renderers (e.g. using the NDX as just a renderer) to particular DACs via S/Pdif is going to vary dependant on the particular combination of both renderer and DAC that are paired up.

For clarification if my original post was less than clear, I was referring to Uniti Core as a store and renderer, with digital out into a DAC, compared to NDX as renderer linked by network to a NAS, with digital output to the same external DAC (also compared to Melco N1A with rendered output into a DAC, and MacMini/Audirvana rendered output into a DAC via isolator if necessary). And it was in respect of that comparison that IIRC Phil Harris said he couldn't distinguish between the Uniti Core and NDX into whatever DAC it was he used, and that I understood a reap at an exhibition had said the Core wasnn't as good as NDX - but so far I am unaware of any wholly independent assessments.

Hungryhalibut posted:

Of course, the impact of adding a Naim power supply, rather than a third party one that will have unpredictable effects, may be entirely different. 

I don't know what "unpredictable effects" you contemplate, HH.  For my first year with the 272 I powered it with the non-Naim XPS, but upgraded to a new Naim XPS DR a few months ago. To my ears the Naim product is clearly superior in every metric but price.  But that's a big but if you haven't got the scratch.