Brexit is off ?
Posted by: engjoo on 03 November 2016
So from the look of it, the parliament has to vote and now that there has been so many regrets (loss of jobs, weakening pounds..), brexit looks set to be off ?
Huge posted:Huge posted:Simon-in-Suffolk posted:Chris, thanks, yes I had seen that before... I couldn't help thinking what a load of rubbish
... I had to lookup to see what the Health Lottery was...
Isn't that the fact that the quality of healthcare depends on the postcode in which you live?
Oh, no, that's the postcode lottery isn't it? ...
Err, I think I might be getting a little confused here!
Ah, finally worked it out...
It's about Brexit isn't it: Since no-one who voted for it knew what it actually was, then that must be the National Lottery!
"No-one who voted for it knew what it actually was." The ever quoted whinge of the Remoaners.
We, the majority, voted to invoke Article 50, to take back control of our borders, repatriate sovereignty as well as our legal system and the right to formulate our own agreements with whomever we want. All of which was implied by the Referendum and expected after Article 50 is invoked. Clear enough?
andarkian posted:Huge posted:Huge posted:Simon-in-Suffolk posted:Chris, thanks, yes I had seen that before... I couldn't help thinking what a load of rubbish
Isn't that the fact that the quality of healthcare depends on the postcode in which you live?
Oh, no, that's the postcode lottery isn't it? ...
Err, I think I might be getting a little confused here!
Ah, finally worked it out...
It's about Brexit isn't it: Since no-one who voted for it knew what it actually was, then that must be the National Lottery!
"No-one who voted for it knew what it actually was." The ever quoted whinge of the Remoaners.
We, the majority, voted to invoke Article 50, to take back control of our borders, repatriate sovereignty as well as our legal system and the right to formulate our own agreements with whomever we want. All of which was implied by the Referendum and expected after Article 50 is invoked. Clear enough?
Did the 'majority' also vote for an extra £350m a week for the NHS (a false promise)? A 20% fall in the value of the pound with a consequent inflation effect on petrol/diesel/gas/electricity/food prices? And to come, a likely withdraw from the EU Customs Union with the likely imposition of tariffs on many UK goods exported to the EU? The possible resurrection of immigration and customs controls at the Irish land boundary?
MDS posted:andarkian posted:Huge posted:Huge posted:Simon-in-Suffolk posted:Chris, thanks, yes I had seen that before... I couldn't help thinking what a load of rubbish
Isn't that the fact that the quality of healthcare depends on the postcode in which you live?
Oh, no, that's the postcode lottery isn't it? ...
Err, I think I might be getting a little confused here!
Ah, finally worked it out...
It's about Brexit isn't it: Since no-one who voted for it knew what it actually was, then that must be the National Lottery!
"No-one who voted for it knew what it actually was." The ever quoted whinge of the Remoaners.
We, the majority, voted to invoke Article 50, to take back control of our borders, repatriate sovereignty as well as our legal system and the right to formulate our own agreements with whomever we want. All of which was implied by the Referendum and expected after Article 50 is invoked. Clear enough?
Did the 'majority' also vote for an extra £350m a week for the NHS (a false promise)? A 20% fall in the value of the pound with a consequent inflation effect on petrol/diesel/gas/electricity/food prices? And to come, a likely withdraw from the EU Customs Union with the likely imposition of tariffs on many UK goods exported to the EU? The possible resurrection of immigration and customs controls at the Irish land boundary?
Another misstatement by a Remoaner. The £350 million was a headline number to highlight the monies that could be repatriated, rather more realistic than the doom and gloom perpetuated by the Establishment. You had your chance, you blew it with your scare stories and, as you would have expected and got acceptance from the Brexiteers had we lost, then why do you not have the good grace to accept your own defeat, but I guess the Establishment never will accept that they can be wrong?
andarkian posted:MDS posted:andarkian posted:Huge posted:Huge posted:Simon-in-Suffolk posted:Chris, thanks, yes I had seen that before... I couldn't help thinking what a load of rubbish
Isn't that the fact that the quality of healthcare depends on the postcode in which you live?
Oh, no, that's the postcode lottery isn't it? ...
Err, I think I might be getting a little confused here!
Ah, finally worked it out...
It's about Brexit isn't it: Since no-one who voted for it knew what it actually was, then that must be the National Lottery!
"No-one who voted for it knew what it actually was." The ever quoted whinge of the Remoaners.
We, the majority, voted to invoke Article 50, to take back control of our borders, repatriate sovereignty as well as our legal system and the right to formulate our own agreements with whomever we want. All of which was implied by the Referendum and expected after Article 50 is invoked. Clear enough?
Did the 'majority' also vote for an extra £350m a week for the NHS (a false promise)? A 20% fall in the value of the pound with a consequent inflation effect on petrol/diesel/gas/electricity/food prices? And to come, a likely withdraw from the EU Customs Union with the likely imposition of tariffs on many UK goods exported to the EU? The possible resurrection of immigration and customs controls at the Irish land boundary?
Another misstatement by a Remoaner. The £350 million was a headline number to highlight the monies that could be repatriated, rather more realistic than the doom and gloom perpetuated by the Establishment. You had your chance, you blew it with your scare stories and, as you would have expected and got acceptance from the Brexiteers had we lost, then why do you not have the good grace to accept your own defeat, but I guess the Establishment never will accept that they can be wrong?
Sorry but "We send the EU £350million a week, lets fund the NHS instead Vote Leave"...
...was not just a headline number. It was an out and out lie to appeal to certain voters.
As for acceptance from the Brexiteers if Remain has won, that's another big lie. Farage for starters would NOT have let the matter rest. The anti-EU brigade in the Conservative party would not have let the matter rest.
As for the people, well I sincerely believe that the majority can't care less about the EU one way or another. They care about the funding of the NHS, they care about their jobs, they care about looking after their family. They were lead to vote leave on the back of many big lies and many misdirection of the causes of their problems. They are going to be just as frustrated when leaving the EU solves none of their problems (IMO). Most things could have been solved if it had been the will of the government while remaining part of the EU.
Brexit was not about giving the people a say, it was about a power play between different factions of the ruling elite. But it will be "the people" who pay the price.
andarkian posted:MDS posted:andarkian posted:Huge posted:Huge posted:Simon-in-Suffolk posted:Chris, thanks, yes I had seen that before... I couldn't help thinking what a load of rubbish
Isn't that the fact that the quality of healthcare depends on the postcode in which you live?
Oh, no, that's the postcode lottery isn't it? ...
Err, I think I might be getting a little confused here!
Ah, finally worked it out...
It's about Brexit isn't it: Since no-one who voted for it knew what it actually was, then that must be the National Lottery!
"No-one who voted for it knew what it actually was." The ever quoted whinge of the Remoaners.
We, the majority, voted to invoke Article 50, to take back control of our borders, repatriate sovereignty as well as our legal system and the right to formulate our own agreements with whomever we want. All of which was implied by the Referendum and expected after Article 50 is invoked. Clear enough?
Did the 'majority' also vote for an extra £350m a week for the NHS (a false promise)? A 20% fall in the value of the pound with a consequent inflation effect on petrol/diesel/gas/electricity/food prices? And to come, a likely withdraw from the EU Customs Union with the likely imposition of tariffs on many UK goods exported to the EU? The possible resurrection of immigration and customs controls at the Irish land boundary?
Another misstatement by a Remoaner. The £350 million was a headline number to highlight the monies that could be repatriated, rather more realistic than the doom and gloom perpetuated by the Establishment. You had your chance, you blew it with your scare stories and, as you would have expected and got acceptance from the Brexiteers had we lost, then why do you not have the good grace to accept your own defeat, but I guess the Establishment never will accept that they can be wrong?
I don't think your response to my attempt to broaden the consequences for brexit you described is warranted, andarkian. Reverting to factionalisin all those who comment into two antagonistic groups is not constructive or likely to shed more light on what is a complicated and important topic to the future of the UK. That said, your response is I regret to say consistent with some of the behaviour of the right-wing Press and some politicians in the brexit camp.
Eloise posted:andarkian posted:MDS posted:andarkian posted:Huge posted:Huge posted:Simon-in-Suffolk posted:Chris, thanks, yes I had seen that before... I couldn't help thinking what a load of rubbish
Isn't that the fact that the quality of healthcare depends on the postcode in which you live?
Oh, no, that's the postcode lottery isn't it? ...
Err, I think I might be getting a little confused here!
Ah, finally worked it out...
It's about Brexit isn't it: Since no-one who voted for it knew what it actually was, then that must be the National Lottery!
"No-one who voted for it knew what it actually was." The ever quoted whinge of the Remoaners.
We, the majority, voted to invoke Article 50, to take back control of our borders, repatriate sovereignty as well as our legal system and the right to formulate our own agreements with whomever we want. All of which was implied by the Referendum and expected after Article 50 is invoked. Clear enough?
Did the 'majority' also vote for an extra £350m a week for the NHS (a false promise)? A 20% fall in the value of the pound with a consequent inflation effect on petrol/diesel/gas/electricity/food prices? And to come, a likely withdraw from the EU Customs Union with the likely imposition of tariffs on many UK goods exported to the EU? The possible resurrection of immigration and customs controls at the Irish land boundary?
Another misstatement by a Remoaner. The £350 million was a headline number to highlight the monies that could be repatriated, rather more realistic than the doom and gloom perpetuated by the Establishment. You had your chance, you blew it with your scare stories and, as you would have expected and got acceptance from the Brexiteers had we lost, then why do you not have the good grace to accept your own defeat, but I guess the Establishment never will accept that they can be wrong?
"As for the people, well I sincerely believe that the majority can't care less about the EU one way or another. They care about the funding of the NHS, they care about their jobs, they care about looking after their family. They were lead to vote leave on the back of many big lies and many misdirection of the causes of their problems. They are going to be just as frustrated when leaving the EU solves none of their problems (IMO). Most things could have been solved if it had been the will of the government while remaining part of the EU.
Brexit was not about giving the people a say, it was about a power play between different factions of the ruling elite. But it will be "the people" who pay the price."
I think that about sums it up perfectly.
I'm also sceptical that we've done anything other than put ourselves in a worse bargaining position with the rest of the World but only time will tell. Right now everything is about the world continuing to believe we're worth trading with and the EU Member States will be looking to take as much advantage of the uncertainty that exists as possible. The quality of our negotiations now will determine the quality of the next 25 - 50 years of all our lives i.e. to the end of mine.
While waiting to see what these negotiations will bring, I fail to see any way in which we can take advantage of our 'lone state' position as we have less to offer compared to a deal with our larger neighbour, the EU. I hope to be proved wrong but the whole basis of BREXIT for me was simply about far right ideologies rather than any firm basis in fact that we'd be better off outside the EU.
Anyway, lots of one-eyed views being stated on here so not going to get involved in any slanging matches but will try and find any facts in favour of BREXIT that may be posted to give me some hope.
I see you lot are still going over and over and over this again and again and again. 
Drewy posted:I see you lot are still going over and over and over this again and again and again.
Because it's very very very very important...
Eloise posted:Drewy posted:I see you lot are still going over and over and over this again and again and again.
Because it's very very very very important...
And that bears repeating. 
Huge posted:Eloise posted:Drewy posted:I see you lot are still going over and over and over this again and again and again.
Because it's very very very very important...
And that bears repeating.
Because it's very very very very important...
fatcat posted:andarkian posted:The polarisation of opinion on this thread reflects the self same thing that happened during the Referendum campaign. When Dodgy Dave gave an unequivocal guarantee to the British people that should the people vote to Leave then Article 50 would be invoked forthwith, clearly given in the naive assumption that the rest of us were Europhiles like him, he did hang himself out to be dried. As it happens, he cut and ran as soon as the result came in. Dodgy Dave's promise was one made with the backing of Parliament by a majority of 6/1 when they were asked if there should be a Referendum. No ifs, no buts, we're OUT!
Now, the Remoaners argument lies as to what form of Brexit we should have, who should have authority over the terms and conditions, all before Article 50 is invoked. Personally, being one who is now called a Hard Brexiteer, my opinion is that our exit is based on a Tabula Rasa and with that clean slate a new relationship with Europe will organically emerge. If our Referendum result is allowed to be 'overturned' or completely distorted by Guyanan models, Brazilian Crimpers, Pimlico Plumbers, Liberal Lords and very much activist judges there will be a bigger anti-establishment backlash than was given by the Referendum itself.
Jeremy Hunt, a person I am never usually in agreement with, was clear today on Andrew Marr in the Government's intention to invoke Article 50 by the end of March. Of course this will probably be scuppered by the Supreme Court next month. May will then go to Parliament for the 'necessary' approval and invite suicidal northern Labour MPs and Liberal nonentities in the House of Lords to thwart her plans. A General Election will be called, Labour will be decimated, Nicola Sturgeon will continue to howl for Independence and her non-existent place in Europe and Article 50 will be invoked, followed by a clearing of the Augean stables known as The House of Lords.
Why will all this happen? Because my local MP, a complete sycophant who had to extricate himself from Dodgy Dave's nether regions when he scarpered from Parliament, and also a staunch Rremainer until May took power, to my utter surprise is now four square behind a hard Brexit. That man has prescience and is now strategically seated in the Justice Department. May does not want to call a General Election before the boundaries are reorganised, but if she has to due to the anti-democratic shenanigans of the Establishment Remoaners, then she will have a very healthy working majority and those not shown retribution by the electorate will feel it when they seek any form of Office.
Simples!
If only life was so simple.
Don’t forget the Tories promised a referendum as a tactical measure to encourage the Ultra Quitter Tory voter not to vote for UKIP. If an election is called without article 50 passing through the commons, so many UQT’s will vote UKIP, the Tories would consider decimation a good result.
Plus, don’t forget, a lot of the quitters have apparently changed their mind. The majority of the country, IE. the voters in a general election are in favour of remaining.
Your first point, in part, is correct, that is how Cameron got us in this mess and he never expected to have to deliver on that promise. However, bear in mind that UKIP is now imploding.
Your second point is pure conjecture without any evidence.
Eloise posted:andarkian posted:MDS posted:andarkian posted:Huge posted:Huge posted:Simon-in-Suffolk posted:Chris, thanks, yes I had seen that before... I couldn't help thinking what a load of rubbish
Isn't that the fact that the quality of healthcare depends on the postcode in which you live?
Oh, no, that's the postcode lottery isn't it? ...
Err, I think I might be getting a little confused here!
Ah, finally worked it out...
It's about Brexit isn't it: Since no-one who voted for it knew what it actually was, then that must be the National Lottery!
"No-one who voted for it knew what it actually was." The ever quoted whinge of the Remoaners.
We, the majority, voted to invoke Article 50, to take back control of our borders, repatriate sovereignty as well as our legal system and the right to formulate our own agreements with whomever we want. All of which was implied by the Referendum and expected after Article 50 is invoked. Clear enough?
Did the 'majority' also vote for an extra £350m a week for the NHS (a false promise)? A 20% fall in the value of the pound with a consequent inflation effect on petrol/diesel/gas/electricity/food prices? And to come, a likely withdraw from the EU Customs Union with the likely imposition of tariffs on many UK goods exported to the EU? The possible resurrection of immigration and customs controls at the Irish land boundary?
Another misstatement by a Remoaner. The £350 million was a headline number to highlight the monies that could be repatriated, rather more realistic than the doom and gloom perpetuated by the Establishment. You had your chance, you blew it with your scare stories and, as you would have expected and got acceptance from the Brexiteers had we lost, then why do you not have the good grace to accept your own defeat, but I guess the Establishment never will accept that they can be wrong?
Sorry but "We send the EU £350million a week, lets fund the NHS instead Vote Leave"...
...was not just a headline number. It was an out and out lie to appeal to certain voters.
As for acceptance from the Brexiteers if Remain has won, that's another big lie. Farage for starters would NOT have let the matter rest. The anti-EU brigade in the Conservative party would not have let the matter rest.
As for the people, well I sincerely believe that the majority can't care less about the EU one way or another. They care about the funding of the NHS, they care about their jobs, they care about looking after their family. They were lead to vote leave on the back of many big lies and many misdirection of the causes of their problems. They are going to be just as frustrated when leaving the EU solves none of their problems (IMO). Most things could have been solved if it had been the will of the government while remaining part of the EU.
Brexit was not about giving the people a say, it was about a power play between different factions of the ruling elite. But it will be "the people" who pay the price.
But, but we did send £350 million a week to the EU. The fact is that they returned a discretionary £8 billion a year or so. They could have cut off the rebate any time they felt like it and the rules of the game would have prevented us, the U.K., doing anything about it.
As for most things being solvable while remaining part of the EU, we would have got exactly the same as Dodgy Dave did earlier this year i.e. nichts, rien, nada, niente, nothing. Only true beneficiaries of EU largesse or those with a stipenduary need for its existence could get so emotional about such a corrupt, sclerotic, controlling, unaccountable institution which is already on its way out.
There s no Nirvana about to emerge from the corrupting body of the EU, lift your eyes from your keyboards and look at what is happening throughout the great Schengen area. We have a lifeboat and I am very happy to jump in it.
And as for all you Farage haters, take a good look at your Liberal, Socialist leaders, the Corbyn's, the Camerons, the Cleggs, the MErkels, the Hollandes, the Sturgeons, all so happy to lead you to societal extinction in order to maintain their unworkable Socialist pipe dreams
MDS posted:andarkian posted:Huge posted:Huge posted:Simon-in-Suffolk posted:Chris, thanks, yes I had seen that before... I couldn't help thinking what a load of rubbish
Isn't that the fact that the quality of healthcare depends on the postcode in which you live?
Oh, no, that's the postcode lottery isn't it? ...
Err, I think I might be getting a little confused here!
Ah, finally worked it out...
It's about Brexit isn't it: Since no-one who voted for it knew what it actually was, then that must be the National Lottery!
"No-one who voted for it knew what it actually was." The ever quoted whinge of the Remoaners.
We, the majority, voted to invoke Article 50, to take back control of our borders, repatriate sovereignty as well as our legal system and the right to formulate our own agreements with whomever we want. All of which was implied by the Referendum and expected after Article 50 is invoked. Clear enough?
Did the 'majority' also vote for an extra £350m a week for the NHS (a false promise)? A 20% fall in the value of the pound with a consequent inflation effect on petrol/diesel/gas/electricity/food prices? And to come, a likely withdraw from the EU Customs Union with the likely imposition of tariffs on many UK goods exported to the EU? The possible resurrection of immigration and customs controls at the Irish land boundary?
I hope, like me, the majority ignored the £350 a week extra for NHS as a total falsehood (so unlike politicians to lie). The pound was overvalued anyway because of our trade deficit. Withdrawal from the customs union was forecast by both Leave and Remain campaigners. For tariffs, bear in mind that we have a trade deficit with the rest of EU and will gain from a tariff war. For the RoI boundary, this was open before we both joined EU.
andarkian posted:MDS posted:andarkian posted:Huge posted:Huge posted:Simon-in-Suffolk posted:Chris, thanks, yes I had seen that before... I couldn't help thinking what a load of rubbish
Isn't that the fact that the quality of healthcare depends on the postcode in which you live?
Oh, no, that's the postcode lottery isn't it? ...
Err, I think I might be getting a little confused here!
Ah, finally worked it out...
It's about Brexit isn't it: Since no-one who voted for it knew what it actually was, then that must be the National Lottery!
"No-one who voted for it knew what it actually was." The ever quoted whinge of the Remoaners.
We, the majority, voted to invoke Article 50, to take back control of our borders, repatriate sovereignty as well as our legal system and the right to formulate our own agreements with whomever we want. All of which was implied by the Referendum and expected after Article 50 is invoked. Clear enough?
Did the 'majority' also vote for an extra £350m a week for the NHS (a false promise)? A 20% fall in the value of the pound with a consequent inflation effect on petrol/diesel/gas/electricity/food prices? And to come, a likely withdraw from the EU Customs Union with the likely imposition of tariffs on many UK goods exported to the EU? The possible resurrection of immigration and customs controls at the Irish land boundary?
Another misstatement by a Remoaner. The £350 million was a headline number to highlight the monies that could be repatriated, rather more realistic than the doom and gloom perpetuated by the Establishment. You had your chance, you blew it with your scare stories and, as you would have expected and got acceptance from the Brexiteers had we lost, then why do you not have the good grace to accept your own defeat, but I guess the Establishment never will accept that they can be wrong?
Sorry, I'm a Brexit supporter but can we please try and keep it classy?