Speakers for 272/300DR

sopra sure isn't a wrong step.

Emre posted:

What about naim s400? they have one in stock and nobody will buy it except me so I can get a bargain for it

Wow! Go for it Emre.

I absolutely love my S400s - running them with NDS / 252 /250DR and an LP12.

They take around 3 month to break it but after that they are just stunning.

Adam Zielinski posted:

Emre posted:

What about naim s400? they have one in stock and nobody will buy it except me so I can get a bargain for it

Wow! Go for it Emre.

I absolutely love my S400s - running them with NDS / 252 /250DR and an LP12.

They take around 3 month to break it but after that they are just stunning.

I have S400s with my 300dr. I haven't compared them with anything else so not much help I'm afraid but I'm so happy with them I have no intention of trying any other speakers. They are superb with the grip the 300 provides.

Hi Adam / Drewy

I have also interest in Ovators. They seem to be very solid which helps in my house - have kids running around all day.

Besides that, it seems that the Ovator s400 is appreciated more than the Ovator s600. Technically they are not that much different. Would a bigger amp - say the nap 300 - also 'make the s600 sing'? - equally satisfactory as the s400?

Also, I think I have a difficult living room - loads of things around, like Duplo trains, instruments etc .... Are the Ovators picky on this, or are they more on the insensitive side of the spectrum?

I love my S600s which are driven by a NAP300. They must be in the right room and I listen solely to classical so perhaps I've found their sweet spot

Ovators have a wide dispertion so in a way they are quite insensitive as to where and how they are positioned. As long as the reflections of sound waves from both speakers are similar and consistent you will be ok.

I have not heard NAP 300 so cannot comment. I have first powered my S400s with my SN2/HiCapDR and recently with 252/scdr/250DR. Clear improvement although nominal power is the same. Most likely a better pre-amp is a decisive factor here.

Another Sopra2 vote here having had S400 before those. 

İ have spendor d7 , smc 40, s-400 and sm40 at a similar price 

and sopra 2 at a 3 times more priced but i csn afford it and it is a good deal

no home demo

so should i change the sonus cremona m s or not? 

For a Little more rocking with a bass?

That is a terribly difficult question, and it's really impossible to advise on which. It's like me asking you which I should have for dinner (we don't eat meat, but do eat fish)

• lentil curry
• Spanish omlette
• pasta with tomato and aubergine sauce, with mozzarella

or, at three times the price

• monkfish on a bed of puy lentils 

How would you advise me? 

Now, as to the speakers, and assuming that you cannot even take your amps to the dealer to try them there, what would I do? Based on my slight knowledge and personal prejudice, and saying sorry in advance to anyone who owns these speakers:

• don't get the Sopras - they are huge behemoths that look hideous
• don't get the Spendors - they are nice but dull and look really boring
• don't get the Ovators - they are not like proper Naim speakers and have funny round grilles on the front
• get the ATCs. I've never heard them but they have always appealed.

so, you'll say, that's a crap response and totally based on ignorance and prejudice. But it got Trump into the White House.

Note that I don't own any of these speakers, so have no personal axe to grind. 

Now, if you could get some SL2s....

It is hard to advise, not least as I don't know your speakers - but I would look at it this way your speakers are well renowned as very good at their pricepoint. You want more bass than they do in your room (and Presumably you don't want the remainder of the spectrum to drop in sound quality. So if you really have no chance of hearing, then next best thing would be comparative reviews including the Cremona M and whatever others you're considering. And if there aren't any then you need to glean as much as you can from as many different revies and other sources, and weigh it all up.

this forum can be useful, but bear in mind that different people have very different ideas as to what constitutes bass, especially deep/low bass (some people have praised how good their speakers are in the bass, when it is clear that anything below around 60-80Hz is not capable of being reproduced at a level that even room resonances can boost to a comparable level to the higher frequencies and similarly some people claim too much bass from speakers where that is highly unlikely. So to pick a way through recommendations you need to try to understand whether the person has a similar idea of what sounds good to you, and in this case a similar understanding of the sound of bass to yours, especially when it comes to depth.

if you're paying as much as the Sopras cost, can you really not persuade your dealer to let you hear in comparison with yours, if not in your home that at his shop (but preferably using your amp). Even at half that price!

I don't know where you live, but given the cost involved, it almost sounds worth travelling to somewhere where you can audition, even if that is without being able to take your speakers, though if that is to somewhere where you have no intention of buying it would be polite to advise the said dealer, explaining why, and offer to pay for his time - i think in many cases they would help without taking you up on the offer  if you choose a quiet time.

Hungryhalibut posted:

... even take your amps to the dealer to try them there, ...

Thanks HH, I'll try to remember this one.

I've always liked the PMC Fact 12s. Heard them on dem at my dealer's a few times sounding really good on the end of 552, 300DR and driven by an NDS/555DR. I may just graduate to these when I've had enough of my awful Ovator S600s. It might be a while thought. Can't see those orange Focal Darleks  working in my cottage - not if I wanted to stay married!

I've got PMC 20.26's sounding rather excellent on the end of my 300DR. I've not heard the new 25.26's but they are supposed to be an upgrade on the 20 series.

Either of these may be worth a punt.

I would have made some PMC suggestions but they aren't in the range Emre's dealer can supply.  I would choose the Fact 12 above the lower ones any day - I've heard in two different rooms, in one case sounding a bit compressed in the width of soundstage, but the other time not. Amazingly good for their diminutive size, and do bass very well (and have switchable bass response which allows a degree of tuning). They're around £12k new, so overvthe too price wise, but I've seen ex demo occasionally at about £8k, and the change would allow transpot to wherever you live - and your trip to audition. Otherwise if you want good bass I'd suggest an older and bigger one, the EB1i, which is what I chose (But I'd have happily take Fact 12 if I didn't have the EB, or their pro range MB2, but at a cost.

Ravenswood10 posted:

... Can't see those orange Focal Darleks  working in my cottage - not if I wanted to stay married!

Unless you're dutch, they love orange speakers ...

I quite fancy one of the earlier suggestions,  yes the Spanish omelette,  sounds delicious.... 

wenger2015 posted:

I quite fancy one of the earlier suggestions,  yes the Spanish omelette,  sounds delicious.... 

But does it sound any good.....?

nigelb posted:

wenger2015 posted:

I quite fancy one of the earlier suggestions,  yes the Spanish omelette,  sounds delicious.... 

But does it sound any good.....?

Just popping in the TQ Ultra blacks now, will obviously post my findings.... 

Emre posted:

İ have spendor d7 , smc 40, s-400 and sm40 at a similar price 

and sopra 2 at a 3 times more priced but i csn afford it and it is a good deal

no home demo

so should i change the sonus cremona m s or not? 

For a Little more rocking with a bass?

I would go for Naim S-400s. Hugely capable speakers, blindigly fast and great with any type of music. Have a look at a fantastic review at What HiFi - they summarised the essence of the speakers very well.

One note from my personal observations, having lived with the Ovators for almost 1 year now. Initial reaction is: what happened to bass??? Untill you realise there is plenty of it, but midrange is so transparent that vocals suddenly pop into focus. 

I play bass in a rock band - with the Ovators I have a feeling I'm sitting at a mixing console in a recording studio

wenger2015 posted:

I quite fancy one of the earlier suggestions,  yes the Spanish omelette,  sounds delicious.... 

That's what we had tonight, with a nice mixed salad and home made whole meal bread. It was the first outing for our new Green Pan 24cm frying pan, which does a perfect nine egg tortilla, just right for three. A couple of bottles of San Miguel and all's well with the world. Fish must wait till Friday, when it's 20% off at Waitrose. 

As for speakers..... meh. 

You might want to check Steve Huff's web site.  He mostly reviews photo equipment but also has a smaller "hifi corner" and recently reviewed the Focals in great detail.  To say it's a rave is an understatement.

Hungryhalibut posted:

That is a terribly difficult question, and it's really impossible to advise on which. It's like me asking you which I should have for dinner (we don't eat meat, but do eat fish)

• lentil curry
• Spanish omlette
• pasta with tomato and aubergine sauce, with mozzarella

or, at three times the price

• monkfish on a bed of puy lentils 

 

How would you advise me? 

Now, as to the speakers, and assuming that you cannot even take your amps to the dealer to try them there, what would I do? Based on my slight knowledge and personal prejudice, and saying sorry in advance to anyone who owns these speakers:

• don't get the Sopras - they are huge behemoths that look hideous
• don't get the Spendors - they are nice but dull and look really boring
• don't get the Ovators - they are not like proper Naim speakers and have funny round grilles on the front
• get the ATCs. I've never heard them but they have always appealed.

 

so, you'll say, that's a crap response and totally based on ignorance and prejudice. But it got Trump into the White House.

Note that I don't own any of these speakers, so have no personal axe to grind. 

Now, if you could get some SL2s....

Dear Hungryhalibut, thank you for your advice, i value your " crap response based on ignorance and prejudice ", thats what i am after in this forum...

I believe you can advise on anything by clearly stating why you prefer monkfish vs omelette, stating the conditions of your choice ( which meal of the day, was a hot day or not? where were you?  Spain or near ocean? ) , what you crave  at that time, what are you usually preference for food and compare the monkfish vs other monkfish that you have in other restaurants in YOUR OPINION,  EXPERIENCE and TASTE on the subject.

I can advice you on best 3 restaurant on Istanbul without knowing anything about your preferences, and if i dig more about what you want and i can advice you on best monkfish restaurants...

it can be done, there is the whole commercial sector reviewing everything from Milkshakes to running shoes and surprise surprise speakers.... So if you can not do it does not mean that it can not be done.... 

Also there are many people with experience trying 272/300 with different who can share their opinions.....

So asking opinion to those who have the change the listen many speakers with Naim setup ( also with exactly my setup ) does not require a sarcastic answer.

What is the whole point of the Forum other than exchange of opinions and experience....? 

Or just a tool to be smart ass to someone without knowing his/her conditions.  i would prefer to test 5 speakers with my  setup and make a decision but as i mentioned before it can not be done. 

Can you home demo a Lamborghini Diablo for 3 months in UK? someone can but can you? it is the same here for expensive speakers or many hifi gadget, you can not unless you are spending 100,000£ from the same dealer every year and i can not

So i understand the motto of " trust your ears " but i trust this forum's collective experience as well which got a huge combined hours of experience and many contradicting views to base your decision. 

Does not mean i based my decision on a public voting but it helps to make my decision and i like to information coming from healthy debates. 

 No one it the world will ask for culinary advice from UK forum... so don't worry  

pete T15 posted:

jon honeyball posted:

My ATC SCM11's are exceptional -- see the review of them in HifiCritic. I would certainly look further up their range

 

Thats a great review on the 11s and there's also a good one by Jason Kennedy for Hifi Wigwam , he describes them as being  alarmingly close to his PMC Fact 8s which are the best speakers I've tried at home . I've heard both the ATC 19s and 40s recently and both were fantastic , I'll be trying some 19s at home very very soon , if I had no neighbours and a bigger room it would be the 40s .

The review pair in HFCritic are actually my own set that I bought, then Martin borrowed because he was so impressed with them in my IEC listening room. 

Quite worthy of being driven by 300DR or 500DR - I use a 250DR. In fact, if your room is medium sized, I would put them up in the top few speakers. They are vastly better than their pricetag suggests. 

I considered a lot of speakers including alternatives at twice the price before deciding on ATC SCM19. I wanted to like the SCM40 and to some extent still emotionally hanker after pair but after two trips to a not very local dealer we still preferred the SCM19. A home audition clinched it. The OP's room is about 30% bigger than ours which may be a factor in favour of the SCM40.

We really, really liked the SCM40 until the volume was turned down when, to our ears, it all got a bit 'thin'. The dealer suggested a 300 DR in place of our new 250 DR but with a new 272 DR too, we'd already spent significantly over our budget. 

The stands that we chose for the SCM19 were expensive but that was our personal aesthetic choice.

Maybe we should have checked out active ATC speakers but it was too late as we had already purchased our new 250 DR. 

Based on a dealer demo the Spender D7 was on our 'like' list but we didn't home audition it. I'm very interested in the comment from Hungryhalibut that "... they are dull ..." - not because I have a different opinion but I'd like to know more. They sounded pretty good in the dealer demo but by that time the SCM19 was in play which is why we never did a detailed home audition. I do agree that the D7 looks a tad boring.

Nice but dull is what I said. Perhaps good but nothing special would be better. This was from a quick listen and might be completely wrong. I am totally unqualified to advise the OP, which was the point of my post. The only reliable way to choose speakers is to try them at home, and if you can't there is always an element of pot luck.