Speakers for 272/300DR

wenger2015 posted:

Adam Zielinski posted

 

I play bass in a rock band - with the Ovators I have a feeling I'm sitting at a mixing console in a recording studio

Adam, Anymore info on your rock band? ...

Rock band we play post-grunge-hard-rock-with-a-twist type of music.
Having recorded our debut album, right during the post-production our singer decided to leave. Perhaps not a bad idea after all...
Nevertheless we've spent the last two years searching for a suitable lead singer - I think we've now found a right guy. He's about to enter a studio next week to lay down some vocals to existing tracks. We'll keep only 4 of the recorded tracks and are writing more music now. So I hope to be back in a studio sometime in spring 2017.
The band is called JAMUN. Just look it up by adding .pl after jamun.

Hungryhalibut posted:

Innocent Bystander posted:

Age is of  little relevance with speakers, some 40 years old let alone 14 sound better than many modern ones. Of course the converse is also true.

That's reassuring.  I was worried, having read Badlands' earlier post that if mine were 14 years old I'd need to put them in the bin. But as they are only eight years old I can therefore keep them a further six years before chucking them out. And now I read that they can last 40 years! Wow!! So they have another 32 years to go. As I'm now 55 I won't need to worry until I'm 87. This is great news. The idea that they might already be fit only for landfill was slightly discombobulating as when I was listening to music this morning I thought they were sounding quite good. 

Can we have some consistency,    it's rather good not quite good

I will now throw a curve ball Emre...

Quad ESL-63s.

Adam Zielinski posted:

wenger2015 posted:

Adam Zielinski posted

 

I play bass in a rock band - with the Ovators I have a feeling I'm sitting at a mixing console in a recording studio

Adam, Anymore info on your rock band? ...

Rock band we play post-grunge-hard-rock-with-a-twist type of music.
Having recorded our debut album, right during the post-production our singer decided to leave. Perhaps not a bad idea after all...
Nevertheless we've spent the last two years searching for a suitable lead singer - I think we've now found a right guy. He's about to enter a studio next week to lay down some vocals to existing tracks. We'll keep only 4 of the recorded tracks and are writing more music now. So I hope to be back in a studio sometime in spring 2017.
The band is called JAMUN. Just look it up by adding .pl after jamun.

Thanks Adam,  I will pre-order a cd...when it's completed 

As to speakers and age:

Many things can and do change or go wrong with dynamic speakers as they grow older: cone material stiffens or becomes brittle, surrounds dry out and "rot" (but it's a dry rot!), even the fiberglas insulation used inside many cabinets will compact with age and cease to do a proper job.  Fluids used to damp or cool tweeters dries out, caps in crossovers start to leak, etc.  And those are just some of the more obvious effects of age.  I had a pair of Allison Ones for 20 years and every few years the leads to the tweeters, designed by Roy to be as thin as possible, would burn out like a fuse and I had to break out the soldering iron and piece in some thin copper wire unwound from an old extension cord.

If your speaker cones are held by a surround of rubber, foam, or doped material the chances of your speakers sounding the same at ten or fifteen years of age as new is not good - possible, but not good.  It's just physics and chemistry. 

Tallan posted:

As to speakers and age:

Many things can and do change or go wrong with dynamic speakers as they grow older: cone material stiffens or becomes brittle, surrounds dry out and "rot" (but it's a dry rot!), even the fiberglas insulation used inside many cabinets will compact with age and cease to do a proper job.  Fluids used to damp or cool tweeters dries out, caps in crossovers start to leak, etc.  And those are just some of the more obvious effects of age.  I had a pair of Allison Ones for 20 years and every few years the leads to the tweeters, designed by Roy to be as thin as possible, would burn out like a fuse and I had to break out the soldering iron and piece in some thin copper wire unwound from an old extension cord.

If your speaker cones are held by a surround of rubber, foam, or doped material the chances of your speakers sounding the same at ten or fifteen years of age as new is not good - possible, but not good.  It's just physics and chemistry. 

Some surrounds deteriorate, others don't. Some that deteriorate can be replaced easily (surrounds or entire drivers, some can't. I seem to recall I think it was Gilbert Briggs reporting that speakers were still improving after a couple of decades - how's that for burn-in?

Halloween Man posted:

wenger2015 posted:

Ardbeg10y posted:

Halloween Man posted:

Emre, it really is a shame you cannot audition as my guess would be that the SCM40 would have the sopra 2 for breakfast, and at less than half the price

This would be the

• lentil curry

From HH's list.

 

The only problem with the SCM40's is the distinct lack of soundstage,  some say the build quality isn't great either, but obviously they are a much cheaper speaker then some of the other contenders that have been mentioned... 

That could not be further from the truth in my experience. Have u heard or inspected SCM40 MK2? The sound staging is superb, even better on the actives. Build quality is exemplary, beautifully finished, and brilliantly engineered. Reassuringly heavy.

Don't believe me? Read the reviews, ask other owners, and check out their pro-audio pedigree.

Ah, you didn't say mk2, now that's somewhat different,  a much better speaker ...very good for their price bracket 

Adam Zielinski posted:

I will now throw a curve ball Emre...

Quad ESL-63s.

 

Well, if its secondhand not from his dealer, how about stacked ESL57s, and a sub - Wilson BEnesch Torus appeals... 

Innocent Bystander posted:

Adam Zielinski posted:

I will now throw a curve ball Emre...

Quad ESL-63s.

 

Well, if its secondhand not from his dealer, how about stacked ESL57s, and a sub - Wilson BEnesch Torus appeals... 

Both would have to be second hand.... and would sound stunning on a back of NAP300.

I have a single sub which is a coffee table at the moment

Today I will go and try to listen at least focal sopra 2 and scm40, d7

But I know that sopra are connected to 202/200 setup

Which is not fair to them

Halloween Man posted:

wenger2015 posted:

Ardbeg10y posted:

Halloween Man posted:

Emre, it really is a shame you cannot audition as my guess would be that the SCM40 would have the sopra 2 for breakfast, and at less than half the price

This would be the

• lentil curry

From HH's list.

 

The only problem with the SCM40's is the distinct lack of soundstage,  some say the build quality isn't great either, but obviously they are a much cheaper speaker then some of the other contenders that have been mentioned... 

That could not be further from the truth in my experience. Have u heard or inspected SCM40 MK2? The sound staging is superb, even better on the actives. Build quality is exemplary, beautifully finished, and brilliantly engineered. Reassuringly heavy.

Don't believe me? Read the reviews, ask other owners, and check out their pro-audio pedigree.

I strongly second Halloween Mans comment and can only assume Wenger2015 has never heard the SCM40's or seen them in the flesh.

Good luck with the demos....

I think if I was taking a leap of faith, I would need a very good ex-dem offer or look at the used market.  That way if you have made a wrong step the financial impact is lessened, if you can sell them on.
But  i suppose how would you know that was true, if you can't listen to any alternatives.

In my swap from 250DR with my 15 year old Living Voice OBXRs to ATC SCM40a (so the mk2 shape).
I sold my old kit on the 'bay of evil' and got almost what was needed to buy new active speakers with 6 years warranty.    I had budgeted £3k...so can now get a nice stand, but I only need two shelves not 4 if I had gone down the 300DR & SCM40(mk2) route.   

Paulebarrow posted:

Halloween Man posted:

wenger2015 posted:

Ardbeg10y posted:

Halloween Man posted:

Emre, it really is a shame you cannot audition as my guess would be that the SCM40 would have the sopra 2 for breakfast, and at less than half the price

This would be the

• lentil curry

From HH's list.

 

The only problem with the SCM40's is the distinct lack of soundstage,  some say the build quality isn't great either, but obviously they are a much cheaper speaker then some of the other contenders that have been mentioned... 

That could not be further from the truth in my experience. Have u heard or inspected SCM40 MK2? The sound staging is superb, even better on the actives. Build quality is exemplary, beautifully finished, and brilliantly engineered. Reassuringly heavy.

Don't believe me? Read the reviews, ask other owners, and check out their pro-audio pedigree.

I strongly second Halloween Mans comment and can only assume Wenger2015 has never heard the SCM40's or seen them in the flesh.

What a shame, in that case, they come with such cheap, nasty and ugly grilles. I know, I know, just leave them off I hear you all say. Unfortunately my wife insists upon 'grilles on', and won't give the ATCs house room! 

Emre posted:

I have a single sub which is a coffee table at the moment

Today I will go and try to listen at least focal sopra 2 and scm40, d7

But I know that sopra are connected to 202/200 setup

Which is not fair to them

Emre, 272/250 or 272/300 with sopra it's factory matching, nothing can't be wrong and it's easy, you can like it or not, also in my opinion it's better to listen to few more speakers and don't trust us.

I actually love the grilles, they look great and offer real protection. They do seem to have a Marmite effect, love them or hate them.

Halloween Man posted:

I actually love the grills, they look great and offer real protection. They do seem to have a Marmite effect, love them or hate them.

I'm with you there and yes Marmite is fair comment.

I tend to take them off when listening although difficult to discern much difference. However those beautiful drivers look vulnerable so they generally go back on. As for "cheap and nasty", they are actually very well made!

Like PARLEE-KING I'm shortly going for a dem of the active versions which I'm looking forward to. With the sale of the SCM 40's, 250DR, Chord Signature Ref speaker cables and Chord Signature DIN/XLR, its a change I'm hoping will be kind to the wallet and acceptable to the management. 

PARLEE-KING, would you mind if I asked what you got for your 250DR on the Bay?

After fees I realised just over 2400. I'd bought it ex dem,  with a trade on my old SU.  Very happy to have hardly lost anything in three years. 

Ordered my 40a in satin black so the magnetic grills are less obvious 

You did well there!

My 40's are in black ash but the matt black looks fabulous. My worry is they will show every finger mark so did you see the matt in the flesh?

I would add that if I had had an extra amount budget circa 10k+ I may well have gone 300DR Sopra 2 

But two active reasonably sized speakers with n272 + ps555  has a very good WAF 

372/572 would ice that cake when ever it comes along as an option.   Or maybe other non naim one box options with xlr outputs may need to be considered 

My dealer has suggested a Chord TT in place or my 272 & Chord 2Qute as an option? It will be interesting to make the comparison.

He also mentioned the DAVA but I think i'd end up single again!! 

Sorry missed that reply no not seen satin black in the flesh,  but I hope they won't be touched very often.    No offspring to worry about.  

Yes, cheap and nasty ATC grilles they are not. A lot more expensive to manufacture than the fabric grilles and certainly a lot higher quality.

Paulebarrow posted:

My dealer has suggested a Chord TT in place or my 272 & Chord 2Qute as an option? It will be interesting to make the comparison.

He also mentioned the DAVA but I think i'd end up single again!! 

I use Hugo TT into active SCM40A and it's a truely magical combination. Make sure TT is from a recent batch and does not suffer noise when front LED is lit (check my earlier posts of this). It's also best going RCA out on TT for best sq, again see my earlier posts on this.

Thanks for that, your advice is much appreciated!

I'm surprised by your suggestion of using RCA rather than XLR as I've always assumed that was superior? What cables are you using?

Paulebarrow posted:

My dealer has suggested a Chord TT in place or my 272 & Chord 2Qute as an option? It will be interesting to make the comparison.

He also mentioned the DAVA but I think i'd end up single again!! 

I found TT to be a step up from the Hugo, though not a major one, while Hugo seems to be quite widely considered to be better sounding than 2Qute (I haven't heard latter myself).  TT has a rather nice volume control, and that option of balanced outputs, of particular benefit if it is a long cable run to active speakers.

Dave is in a different league entirely, a real wow factor on first hearing (literally in the case of my companion when I initially auditioned it). It also has a choice of balanced outputs, but it is expensive, and I would not recommend auditioning it if there  is no way it could be considered. Whilst not sold on it myself, there are some people who say that being single is great because they can do what they want without having to consider others, including what music to play, when and how loud (latter of course depending on neighbours)...