Speakers for 272/300DR

Halloween Man posted:

Thanks ib, great post but not what I wanted to read! You've got me itching to phone my local dealer now.

How r u connecting Dave to your MM and power amp? What cables do u use?

Usb cable supplied with Dave, and at the moment I'm using phono, the interconnect is the cable says Audio Acoustic' on it plugs fitted by me), and  I'm planning on making up, pair of balanced cables to compare some time soon, and some time I may make up another pair of phono using some silver wire I have, which I'll do following Rob Watts' 'formual', to see if I can hear a difference. 

Hi ib. I hadn't listened to my hi-fi for a couple of days and plugged the Dave straight in. At first I thought, yes, this sounds really nice, very listenable, but didn't think it was all that different to my tt. That was until I put my tt back in place. Not good news. I need to do more listening but my early impression is that Dave just has this magical quality to it that draws you in. Even to look at it looks like something out of harry potter. It's ugly but it's wonderful. The sound is beguiling. I need to do more listening.

Oh dear , I didn't want to read that. 

Me neither...

G

Did some more listening. It's easy to hear the differences with Dave and TT. Dave has more bottom end, sounds warmer, has wider and deeper soundstage with better instrument separation. It's very easy on the ear, no fatigue whatsoever. Complex music is effortless. The TT is perhaps a tad more focused, perhaps due to the smaller soundstage.

I'm still undecided which I will keep. The increased bottom end of the Dave slightly exacerbates my room acoustics problem. I also find the TT to be more focused, particularly its ability to bring vocals to the front of the soundstage.

More listening required.

So it's not a day and night despite the price difference? check them with a decent headphone as well

They do sound very different, no careful listening tests required here. They are both hugely enjoyable to listen to. I have not yet decided which one gives me the greatest pleasure in my room.

Speakers for me are far more enjoyable than headphones, I never use headphones on my hi-fi so will not be testing this.

Halloween Man posted:

Did some more listening. It's easy to hear the differences with Dave and TT. Dave has more bottom end, sounds warmer, has wider and deeper soundstage with better instrument separation. It's very easy on the ear, no fatigue whatsoever. Complex music is effortless. The TT is perhaps a tad more focused, perhaps due to the smaller soundstage.

I'm still undecided which I will keep. The increased bottom end of the Dave slightly exacerbates my room acoustics problem. I also find the TT to be more focused, particularly its ability to bring vocals to the front of the soundstage.

More listening required.

Interesting. I didn't particularly think Dave widened the soundstage, rather it became more three dimensional, but then my PMCs give a  wide soundstage without any effort. And I hadn't registered either an increase in bass or any difference in focus. But then I tend to struggle analysing, just listen holistically, just finding Dave was the one I wanted to leave playing - and can't stop!.

Do I recall correctly that you use active ATC SMC40s? I can't remember if that's a ported speaker or if that's only in their bigger ones - just pondering  a difference in perceived bass, though I don't know why different DAC/preamps would stir anything different in different speakers. And those have got their wonderful mid unit, which focusses vocals like no other - maybe that's teasing out a difference. Who knows? I will await your further analysis with interest.

Hi ib yes more three dimensional but also bigger soundstage.

My room is very sensitive between 40-50hz and the uplift in low bass was obvious the very first time I played Dave.

I agree it is best to just sit back and enjoy the music and decide which u prefer. Both are very addictive,

Yes scm40a sealed design actives. There is for sure more bass with dave, no doubt about it. Not massive, just a tad but it's there.

Vocals do seem more at the front of the soundstage with TT but need to listen more.

I feel as though I have done enough listening now to make a decision. I've decided to keep my TT. My view is entirely subjective and others may have a completely different experience.

I remember when we I got our new 3D TV. I was sitting there with my wife with our Roy Orbison glasses on waiting for the Strictly special 3D transmission. It started. I looked at my wife and said, the ballroom looks like a miniature version, like a dolls house. It wasn't what we were used to, it was strange and didn't look right. It looked like a scene from the borrowers.

Dave for me is the musical equivalent. Not how I am used to listening to music and as a result it doesn't sound or feel right. It's too three dimensional, too much separation, the donut shaped soundstage doesn't focus the vocal enough at the front in the centre of the stage. It was beguiling to hear but I was finding it difficult to connect, to accept it as real. Maybe it's my room, maybe it's my aging brain, or a combination of both but I find it difficult to adjust to this new dimension of sound.

Thanks Halloween Man...I feel much better again!

G

You're welcome! What also swung it was the additional bottom end on Dave - my room didn't agree with it.

Food for thought if I feel the need for a deeper bottom

Halloween Man posted:

I feel as though I have done enough listening now to make a decision. I've decided to keep my TT. My view is entirely subjective and others may have a completely different experience.

I remember when we I got our new 3D TV. I was sitting there with my wife with our Roy Orbison glasses on waiting for the Strictly special 3D transmission. It started. I looked at my wife and said, the ballroom looks like a miniature version, like a dolls house. It wasn't what we were used to, it was strange and didn't look right. It looked like a scene from the borrowers.

Dave for me is the musical equivalent. Not how I am used to listening to music and as a result it doesn't sound or feel right. It's too three dimensional, too much separation, the donut shaped soundstage doesn't focus the vocal enough at the front in the centre of the stage. It was beguiling to hear but I was finding it difficult to connect, to accept it as real. Maybe it's my room, maybe it's my aging brain, or a combination of both but I find it difficult to adjust to this new dimension of sound.

Great to hear your view, and financially I am pleased for you! Curious the bass aspect because if there was a difference it wasn't obvious to me (and I have a room resonance at about 45Hz), despite my speakers going way lower than that. But then for me the bass is important so perhaps that's why I didn't think it was too much. I just find I can't be without Dave, its clarity and insight, immersing me in the music. It is strange, I find myself sneaking a quick play any time I have 20 minutes to spare, any time of day, almost as if I'm sneaking out to have a quickie with a mistress secreted nearby! Now that is something I don't remember ever doing before, and is quite intoxicating!

As with everything, each to his/her own, no doubt depending on personal listening preferences and system synergies - I would be happy with the TT, and indeed I was with Hugo, and would still be if I couldn't have afforded Dave. But the warning stands to others: it may be best not listen to Dave if it is out of the question, lest it has the same effect on you as me, and might become an all-pervading desire to be fulfilled.

Halloween Man posted:

You're welcome! What also swung it was the additional bottom end on Dave - my room didn't agree with it.

Bit like the effects of a dodgy curry on one's digestive system then - resulting an overblown bottom end!

I'll get me coat.

No such thing!

IB, apologies for my naff attempt at humour. I was in no way comparing Dave to a dodgy curry, I assure you.

I suspect Dave is a bit of a game changer in the world of DACs. My hope is that it will spur Naim on to at least keep abreast with the industry leaders. My fear is they will, and it will cost me a lot of money.

Enjoy your Dave, I bet it is a stunning bit of kit.

i know you weren't - and my response was simply saying there's no such thing as too much bass! (As long as it is tuneful, controlled, and part of the music, that is...)

The extra bass with Dave was small, to put this in perspective I would guess 1db or less in my room at somewhere around 45hz. It was definitely there.

The Dave is certainly different and holographic and I can completely understand how this can be mesmerising. For me though the imaging wasn't quite right\what I am used to. The TT adds a touch of this magic without over egging the pudding for me. Just personal taste. Could be my room.

Enjoy your new mistress! I'm remaining faithful for the time being.

Just listened to Julian Lloyd Webber, Elgar Cello Concerto and have to say I preferred Dave... more felt like I was there (and I have been there listening to him and this music at Newcastle City Hall).

btw IB you do realise your new mistress is called Dave?! Best keep that one to yourself.

Ah, the name is good cover, if I tell my wife I'm just going to see Dave she won't get suspicious, whereas a feminine name might get her wondering...!

I wanted to be sure before returning Dave. Amongst other tracks I played 'Miss You' 'This Feeling' and most appropriately 'Sound and Color' by Alabama Shakes. Anyone wanting to listen to great alternative\rock\blues music, superbly produced and engineered should give this album a listen.

Dave has been frustrating for me. I never expected anything other than to love it. The soundstage is deeper, wider, and more three dimensional than anything else I have ever listened to. It has a lovely warmth to it. Instruments sound remarkably realistic and separate. All the inner details, such as reverb decay, starting and stopping of notes, are clearly rendered.

For me though, it's the gift of the deep, three dimentional soundstage that comes at a price. The price is the vocal\lead is reduced, less forward, smaller, the overall mix becomes less coherent. Listening again today reinforced my feelings on Dave, I stand by my analogy with watching 3D TV in my home.

Does it show this in All albums? could it the mastering ? how is classical ,  Jazz? 

Halloween Man posted:

I wanted to be sure before returning Dave. Amongst other tracks I played 'Miss You' 'This Feeling' and most appropriately 'Sound and Color' by Alabama Shakes. Anyone wanting to listen to great alternative\rock\blues music, superbly produced and engineered should give this album a listen.

Dave has been frustrating for me. I never expected anything other than to love it. The soundstage is deeper, wider, and more three dimensional than anything else I have ever listened to. It has a lovely warmth to it. Instruments sound remarkably realistic and separate. All the inner details, such as reverb decay, starting and stopping of notes, are clearly rendered.

For me though, it's the gift of the deep, three dimentional soundstage that comes at a price. The price is the vocal\lead is reduced, less forward, smaller, the overall mix becomes less coherent. Listening again today reinforced my feelings on Dave, I stand by my analogy with watching 3D TV in my home.

 

I heard a pair of speakers that did this once - a massive soundstage where everything was etched in space and you could hear where every drum and cymbal was. All very impressive, and I can see why some people love that, but to me it was distracting rather than engaging. Sometimes, there can be too much detail and clarity. Real life isn't like that. It can be nicer if things are a bit fuzzy round the edges. 

I did prefer Dave for the classical I lstened to. I listen mostly to singer songwriter acoustic material and alternative rock music where I felt the vocal got a little lost in the three dimensional mix. Frank Sinatra was the closest I got to jazz and I preferred the TT for said reasons.

Dave has left the building. It certainly made an impression is is unlike anything else I have heard.