Good Morning America
Posted by: Bruce Woodhouse on 08 November 2016
...and goodnight?
Hate to be smug but I seem to recall mentioning after the Brexit vote that US contributors should be careful as one day in November they may wake up to a bad feeling too.
So many thoughts. How wonderful that anyone can become President. Liars, racists, serial philanderers, bullies, people with no experience of politics or government. You just need a shed load of money, a high media profile and an electorate that is so p~~~d off with the political class they they will respond to a simple message and vote for you in their droves. it helps if your opponent is so unappealing of course, albeit somewhat more qualified.
With Republican control of both Houses is he now going to actually do some of the things he said he would do? Can he be stopped?
Or maybe the election was rigged after all, Donald certainly felt this was the case. I wonder if he will change his mind now?
Bruce
Another bunch of losers and professional protesters march to announce they didn't vote for the winner and protest against democracy. If it makes them feel better.
Friends
Interesting comments as always.
If your interested in how the US politics got to where they are there was a superb article in the July-August issue of "The Atlantic" by Jonathan Rauch titled "How American Politics Went Insane". It really is excellent and insghtful and may have relevance for other democracies.
For this past Tuesday's election, today's issue (Wednesday) of the New York Times contains some excellent post-mortem analysis including a special section "Election 2016". The warning signs were there and additionally, perhaps like Brexit, we rushed to embrace a global economy without enough consideration to it's impact on all of our citizens. It will be interesting to see how we go about correcting that oversight.
It looks like a climate change denier is to head up the EPA. Elimination of subsidies for renewable energy. Repealing legislation that seeks to control emissions from coal-fired power plants. Withdrawing from the international efforts in combating this threat. Why? Basically so we can all buy more stuff. Makes me sick to my stomach.
But nothing worry about really. The orange buffoon told me so...
"The concept of global warming was created by and for the Chinese in order to make U.S. manufacturing non-competitive."
Which ones are Hugh, Hugh etc (or was that Camberwick Green?)
winkyincanada posted:It looks like a climate change denier is to head up the EPA. Elimination of subsidies for renewable energy. Repealing legislation that seeks to control emissions from coal-fired power plants. Withdrawing from the international efforts in combating this threat. Why? Basically so we can all buy more stuff. Makes me sick to my stomach.
But nothing worry about really. The orange buffoon told me so...
"The concept of global warming was created by and for the Chinese in order to make U.S. manufacturing non-competitive."
But at least he isn't in bed with Wall Street. Oh wait.....
http://www.politico.com/story/...-donald-trump-230716
Dang.
I was told the other week that Camberwick Green had its origins in Wivlesfield Green in Sussex. Trumpton is Plumton - strange or what?
Skip posted:This is fatigue with the Obama agenda. Plain and simple. Fatigue with his lawless regulating and over reaching agreements on climate and trade and Iran. Remember Obama ignored the rebuke of last national election. And it is fear of what an avenging army of Democrats would do to press their advantage in a third Obama term.
Obama gave you Trump in much the same way as Bush gave you Obama. I don't think it is that much about Hillary
It will be fine. Just go with the flow.
Rubbish .. Trump escaped from the Republican island of Dr. Moreau .. they created the environment for him to flourish through their years of negativity and Chicken Little impersonations .. and then they lost control of him.
But, as you say, it will be fine.
"I'd agree on there being no best choice. Just the least worst. Doesn't make my point invalid. It was an election decided on feelings not facts. Positions not policies. It was all so dire so as to be a farce."
Exactly. Except "least worst" is not as obvious as you make it out to be. Anyone who didn't suck (where IS that guy/gal anyway?) could have easily beaten either one of these chumps.
My opinion is that the only reason anyone would vote for either of these people is because they don't know what they are asking for in casting such a vote.
A fairly simple barometer on whether Trump has been co-opted in the months to come (and it is a dead on certainty that the neocons and their agenda are not going to go away.)
If Victoria Nuland keeps her State Dept job or gets promoted, then all you Clinton lovers can rest assured, the agenda is still in place...at least with regards to foreign policy. Since Trump is ignorant, he is also open to persuasion.
Not to mention possible blackmail. These are very unethical people, in my opinion among the most dangerous on the planet.
And when the Greater Recession/Depression gets rolling in the next couple of years (I personally think 2017, but no one can be certain), Trump will be blamed for it (even though it is already inevitable, and lord knows he has no clue or program.) Whoever won this election was destined to be a one term flame-out because lots of people are going to be mad and unemployed in 2020.
But the bankers will get their SDRs from the IMF and be bailed out again, while we are all left to struggle at one level or another.
Knock knock
Who's there?
Hilary
Hilary who..?
Hillary ass.
DrMark posted:"I'd agree on there being no best choice. Just the least worst. Doesn't make my point invalid. It was an election decided on feelings not facts. Positions not policies. It was all so dire so as to be a farce."
Exactly. Except "least worst" is not as obvious as you make it out to be. Anyone who didn't suck (where IS that guy/gal anyway?) could have easily beaten either one of these chumps.
My opinion is that the only reason anyone would vote for either of these people is because they don't know what they are asking for in casting such a vote.
A fairly simple barometer on whether Trump has been co-opted in the months to come (and it is a dead on certainty that the neocons and their agenda are not going to go away.)
If Victoria Nuland keeps her State Dept job or gets promoted, then all you Clinton lovers can rest assured, the agenda is still in place...at least with regards to foreign policy. Since Trump is ignorant, he is also open to persuasion.
Not to mention possible blackmail. These are very unethical people, in my opinion among the most dangerous on the planet.
And when the Greater Recession/Depression gets rolling in the next couple of years (I personally think 2017, but no one can be certain), Trump will be blamed for it (even though it is already inevitable, and lord knows he has no clue or program.) Whoever won this election was destined to be a one term flame-out because lots of people are going to be mad and unemployed in 2020.
But the bankers will get their SDRs from the IMF and be bailed out again, while we are all left to struggle at one level or another.
http://www.snopes.com/2016/11/...rump-victory-parade/
I don't want to be on the same side as these people.
Neither do I...and I am not; cut with the "red/blue" duality bullshit and recognize there are other colors, metaphorically speaking. That nonsense has been so ingrained these days by the politicians and the MSM...I get the same crap from the other side from Trump people.
So you'd rather be on the same side as these people?
Just as vile and FAR more dangerous to the world.
For those forum members in the USA, given Trump's posturing on ceasing imports and getting you to buy American, it may be best to consider future desires as far as possible and buy your Naim and other Britich hifi now, before he increases import duty, sets quotas or even bans trade...
DrMark posted:Neither do I...and I am not; cut with the "red/blue" duality bullshit and recognize there are other colors, metaphorically speaking. That nonsense has been so ingrained these days by the politicians and the MSM...I get the same crap from the other side from Trump people.
So you'd rather be on the same side as these people?
Just as vile and FAR more dangerous to the world.
I google tracked that to the catbird page. We're done. Bye.
I think this post by Bob Lefsetz on his blog, the day after Trump was elected, nails it. Hillary Clinton was a disastrous choice by the DNC. Well worth a read:
You can’t say we weren’t warned.
He defeated all his Republican challengers. Brexit told us that the elites were out of touch with the rank and file. The disconnect is not only about economics, but attitudes, education, identity…
That’s right, you went to a good college and pulled yourself up by your bootstraps and…
Everybody else was left behind, and they don’t like it.
The left wing said it was about racism. Pure and simple. That Trump had awakened all the bigoted nutjobs…
But you can’t win with the bigots only. He defeated Hillary fair and square. How did the intelligentsia get it so WRONG?
First, the mainstream press thought people were listening to it. To these holier-than-thou talking heads who are paid millions to bloviate in a world where we get our news from the internet, not television… If you’re still watching TV for the answers, you ain’t got a clue. How did I know Trump was gonna win? Because early in the evening Nate Silver had him ahead. Said his odds were better than fifty percent. The same Nate Silver the “New York Times” let go, because the sports reporters didn’t want to cede turf. If you watched the “Times” odds for the last six months the Donald had no chance, Hillary had it locked up.
But she didn’t.
Not that Nate Silver is infallible. He missed the Trump phenomenon completely. He thought when the other Republican candidates started dropping out there’d be a rally around Rubio or another RNC-approved candidate. But that never happened. Nate said Trump’s appeal had a ceiling. That turned out to be untrue.
But at least Silver had the balls to admit he was wrong, to stand up to the “Huffington Post,” which said Hillary had a lock on the election, when it questioned Nate’s methods.
There are two lessons for you right there. Be willing to change and also be willing to stand up for what you believe in. And in this groupthink world we live in that’s very rare.
That was part of Trump’s appeal. He refused to play by the rules. He said racist stuff, sexist stuff, he committed faux pas after faux pas, he broke taboos. But what the inside the Beltway people and the mainstream media didn’t realize was that you hear this stuff all the time online, hatred rules, it’s a free-for-all with no decorum. So, people were not offended, they brushed these misdemeanors right off.
But Hillary was a bad candidate! And there was the Comey letter!
If you’re depending on those excuses to explain the Democratic loss you’re missing the point. This was not the usual race, everything the pols said counted did not. Trump had little infrastructure, almost no get out the vote effort, yet he won anyway.
Could Bernie have defeated Donald?
Maybe. But the same press that made fun of Occupy Wall Street refused to take Sanders seriously. The same cabal that let the Wall Street rapists not only escape scot-free, but triumph once again. That’s right, in the financial world it’s morning in America.
Maybe not tomorrow, when the markets tank, but…
The conundrum is that Trump’s victory will only make things better for the wealthy. Kind of like the old days, when Republicans ran against gay marriage so they could lower their taxes. But the Republicans own the narrative. And the narrative is that government is a controlling wastrel which bleeds money and that Hillary Clinton is a crook.
And the Democratic response?
Crickets.
Bill O’Reilly is accused of sexual harassment and he fights back, Fox News rallies the troops.
Democrats are accused of misdeeds and they become crybabies.
But it’s not so much that Clinton was a victim of misdeeds, rather she was out of touch with the public. People need hope. Without platitudes. “Stronger Together”? If that resonates with you, you must be part of Hill’s inner circle.
And Hill’s inner circle ran a traditional campaign, by the book. Like a record industry banking on resuscitating the CD, never mind the nitwits invested in vinyl. Times change, and you must too. The public embraced streaming, listens on YouTube and Spotify and Apple Music dwarf those on disc or file. But you can’t convince the old guard, no way.
So how do we get out of this mess?
First and foremost we’re headed for bad times. Trump is inexperienced and expertise is necessary to run any enterprise, just ask Jesse Ventura or Arnold Schwarzenegger, whose reigns were ineffective.
But they were both media stars.
Trump is a media star, anointed by television. In a world where celebrity is everything. Kim Kardashian is a talentless doofus, but she’s got more influence than anybody in Congress, she’s laughing all the way to the bank, it’s not like this wasn’t obvious.
And what’s obvious is we have to go back to sixties values.
I know, I know, that sounds insane on this day, but the truth is we have to help our brother, we’re all in it together. We’ve got to give the poor and disadvantaged a better education and a leg up, a helping hand.
Doubt me?
Then explain the phenomenon of Purdue Pharma. Which single-handedly created the heroin epidemic by stating that its product OxyContin was not addictive. That’s right, you start on Oxy and when you can’t afford it you move on to cheaper heroin. Meanwhile, Purdue got rich.
That’s the problem. The liberals got rich. They became fat cats. They used to care about the working man, now they want nothing to do with him. Sure, Dems may dominate Silicon Valley, creating the products that those in the red states utilize, but they want nothing to do with their users. Not only is there no tech support, these guys, and it is mostly guys, fly private and live in an alternative universe, and you think the underclass doesn’t know?
The underclass knows you can’t afford rent even if you do graduate from college, you’re living with your parents.
The underclass knows that the fortunate have contempt for them.
So the underclass decided to give the fortunate the middle finger.
First they came for your union, then they came for your welfare, are you really gonna believe in the spineless Democrats who refused to stand up for you?
I don’t think so.
Don’t get wrapped up in the cognitive dissonance. How these same people will be worse under a Republican regime, left to forage on their own. Citizens in burgs benefiting from European Union expenditures voted for Brexit, because they didn’t like being told what to do, they’d lost their identity, they wanted to reclaim it.
You’ve lost your job, you can’t find another one that feeds your family and you’re gonna believe the most inauthentic person alive is gonna help you out? That’s right, the Clintons triangulate, they do what’s expedient in a world that runs on instinct. You go with your gut, not the rulebook.
Donald Trump went with his gut, he burned the rulebook, and he’s having the last laugh.
The joke may be on us, but he’s now our President, and with a Republican Congress he’s gonna dismantle Obamacare and Dodd-Frank and people will be worse off. But they wanted change. They’re hurting. They’re open to anything new. Even a charlatan preaching false hope.
But if you want to be angry tonight, be angry at yourself. For drinking the media kool-aid. These are the newspapers we’ve got to save? Not only did they get it wrong, they’re operating in an echo chamber, they’re out of touch, maybe a new model is necessary. Be angry at yourself for not taking a stand against narcissism, for taking your piece of the pie and not giving back, for living on the fruits of the system.
Like musicians, whose goal is to sell out. One song of truth can have more power than any corporation. But no, these soulless “artists” would rather get paid. Everybody’s looking to get paid.
Don’t try to explain this by traditional metrics.
And even though I’m giving Nate Silver some credit, the truth is data did not foresee this. We thought everything could be mechanized, that 0’s and 1’s would save the world, when the truth is it comes down to people, and emotions, and no machine can compete.
Facebook was biased, Google is controlling what we know and see…
Well, if that’s true, how come these left-leaning organizations couldn’t elect Hillary?
No, the truth is we can never know what’s inside another human being, what they feel.
But we can see that most of America was disgruntled with the status quo, it wanted a reset, and it got it.
I can’t even contemplate tomorrow.
But I can see the seeds of discontent. The yuppie movement. The BMWification of the upper middle class. The flaunting of wealth. The separation of them from us.
We’re all just people folks.
One person, one vote.
And the people have spoken.
They want Trump.
winkyincanada posted:DrMark posted:Neither do I...and I am not; cut with the "red/blue" duality bullshit and recognize there are other colors, metaphorically speaking. That nonsense has been so ingrained these days by the politicians and the MSM...I get the same crap from the other side from Trump people.
So you'd rather be on the same side as these people?
Just as vile and FAR more dangerous to the world.
I google tracked that to the catbird page. We're done. Bye.
All I did was google image search for a photo of these people - did not care where it came from. (I don't even know what you mean by "the catbird page.") They are a real and present danger. Read their academic articles in Foreign Affairs. Read the Wolfowitz Doctrine. Read their think tank articles - it's all right out there.
The text below is by Graham E. Fuller (a former senior CIA official, author of numerous books on geopolitics and the Muslim World) and is taken from his article The Establishment’s Massive ‘Intelligence Failure’
" Who Is Trump?
In the absence of information so far on who President Trump’s actual appointees will be, it is hard to speculate about future foreign policy. Initial rumors of potential nominees are disquieting. But I tend to think that Trump, by himself, may not be any more likely to stumble into war than Hillary Clinton would have been. Worryingly, the foreign policy “deep state” may override him.
Domestically, non-white Americans, and all women, have much reason to fear his language — even more, to fear the views and voices of many of Trump’s supporters. But Trump may have enough ego to now try to be president of “all of America.”
His FDR, New Deal instincts — occasionally uttered — could be significant. A bold, dramatic new domestic agenda could have great impact and be entirely affordable, but only if corporations pay their taxes and if half the U.S. military budget — bigger than the next ten nations in the world combined — was dedicated to fixing America’s crying infrastructural and economic needs for the bottom 90 percent of the population.
Shockingly, we have a military budget six times greater than the monies allocated to American education — and this in a techno-competitive world.
In the end, this election represents the total collapse of the Republican Party (which is not a true conservative party but a corporate and socially reactionary party). And the election has now gutted the Democratic establishment as well. It had it coming.
But the forces that have kept this country on the wrong path for so long are so intractable, so institutionalized, so resistant to change that it may just require just such a massive shake-up of the system to allow new and creative forces to arise.
Strikingly, America is the only democracy in the world that has no Left. The U.S. political spectrum begins just right of center with Obama (except on social issues) and marches on across to a Crazy Right. Indeed, it is slanderous to be called a liberal today, much less a “leftist.” (Being a “rightist” is fine.)
Above all, we should hope that a true genuine Left will now arise in the country, of which Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren are important components. Youth will be its vital second base. Its ranks will grow rapidly if Trump fails to deliver.
The need for big-time change has never been more apparent. Will this cataclysm within the Establishment now give birth to new creative forces, bigger than Trump himself? "
Complete article here :
Simon-in-Suffolk posted:Another rebalancing from the liberal metropolitans?... like him or loath him he seems to connect with a lot of working and middle class Americans who felt they had no voice... to me this resonates with what happened in the UK in the summer... let's see if it's all puff and bluster .. I suspect he is smart enough to appoint very capable advisors to support him, he will no doubt need and rely on them.
Probably the most intelligent and correct post I have read anywhere concerning the American election. Give him a year or two and see what he can achieve. I feel sorry for the Americans, Washington, Grant, Lincoln, Trueman, JFK. Then all at once they are stuck with Clinton and Trump.
staffy posted:Simon-in-Suffolk posted:Another rebalancing from the liberal metropolitans?... like him or loath him he seems to connect with a lot of working and middle class Americans who felt they had no voice... to me this resonates with what happened in the UK in the summer... let's see if it's all puff and bluster .. I suspect he is smart enough to appoint very capable advisors to support him, he will no doubt need and rely on them.
Probably the most intelligent and correct post I have read anywhere concerning the American election. Give him a year or two and see what he can achieve. I feel sorry for the Americans, Washington, Grant, Lincoln, Trueman, JFK. Then all at once they are stuck with Clinton and Trump.
Can't say they were whiter than white. What did Grant do for the native American. Even Lincoln wasn't totally anti-slavery. If JFK followed by RFK's assassination hadn't happened would there have been a reaction against political clans much as there is re: Bush, Clinton.
It's a gamble, but Trump's election may be just what the political establishment of the U.S.A. needs. Let's hope he can inject some positive change. Brexit happened here, but we are still stuck with the same old same old politicians.
Interesting times ahead.
I may have read on of the most intelligent "celebrity" comment regarding the election...
“It was a surprise,” said the world champion, who added: “I watched the live feed from the plane. To be honest, I don’t think either candidate was particularly mega but maybe he will prove us all wrong. I hope he does. I hope he proves the world wrong and we get to see a different side to him.”
Yes, from Lewis Hamilton.
New Broadway show about the two battling presidential candidates has been announced. Provisionally titled The Lady & The Trump...
Its only been 4 days and it looks like Mr Trump, has kept his diplomatic head on........Mrs C will be spared jail....in fact she's a lovely person, he may even seek advice from good old Bill, hope he's not asking about relationships......... Obama Care will not be totally abolished .....all protesters have been praised for their passion.... whatever next...???....
Give him two years, to improve the economy , strengthen the dollar and reduce unemployment and he will get a second term. If not he will be out and someone better than him and Clinton will hold the reins of power. Could be Rep or Dem.
Lets just hope that all those practising Nazi's will not take to the streets again destroying property .
Eloise posted:Mike-B posted:wenger2015 posted:Trump, love him or hate him, has actually made politics interesting again.....
It might be interesting to see how he gets coached on his "speech" hand gestures, most of which are just plain meaningless as well as annoying, but one in particular he needs to be told about before goes meeting people around the world, in some countries it's used to call someone a homosexual, a*hole, *anker and FU.
I just hope that when May meets him she's grown up and doesn't start giggling about his name ... Mr President ... a trump ... giggles ... snickers ... giggles!
Lets just hope she does not fart around.
winkyincanada posted:We truly live in a post-fact society. It is not what we know that drives our behaviour. It is not even what we think. It is simply what we feel that is important......
"I feel angry so I'll vote for the most idiotic option that has been offered. That will make me feel better. Facts and logic be damned. And if I can hurt people that aren't like me, then that will make me feel best of all".
Correct... I felt like a new Supernait 2 and it happened.