I left Naim... and I can't work out whether I'm happy.

sjw98 posted:

So... chaps...

I spent quite a few hours in my favourite hifi shop today demoing the devialet 120 (the cause of my consternation) against the Nac-n 272 + 250. 

The naim combo blew the devialet out of the water. I'm back with Naim

 

272 + 250 is double the cost of a devialet 120 then it should be so. For a honest  comparison a 120 should be compared to a SuperUniti. 

more convincing the test  between 220 and the 272/250 but considering the low volume listening, where the Devialet loses detail and warmth while Naim maintains a full and organic sound

I never listened Devialet so i can not comment about the sound ( no wait i listened Phantom just a single one - it is a glorified boombox that really rocks ) but i don't like the design, it looks like a fancy lifestyle product that will be so ugly in 10 years time, where the classics are always classic with their timeless industrial design my very, but very subjective opinion.... but i might consider a second hand 130 Devialet to my living room with my old speakers as a second system.... just to fancy the guests, or new uniti line... 

also looking at the list prices the Devialet 120 is about 6k€ vs 7k£,  is more like 5k£ vs 7k£... and you got a nice green screen as well. 

Appearance of boxes is a trivial consideration if they deliver the desired SQ, and to some, racks of industrial-looking black boes do not look attractive in a lounge.

The Devialets have the advantage of small occupied volume and sleekness, with a great remote. When next in the market for an amp (which might not be for decades!) I might be tempted to hear the 250 or 440 if secondhand prices are reasonable.

Innocent Bystander posted:

When next in the market for an amp (which might not be for decades!) I might be tempted to hear the 250 or 440 if secondhand prices are reasonable.

Looking at how Devialet have increased performance yet slashing prices - in decades " if still productive and successful" - you would be better off buying a new one.

Innocent Bystander posted:

The Devialets have the advantage of small occupied volume and sleekness, with a great remote. 

They also sound great, don't hum or hiss and are consistent in performance which makes ownership a pleasure. I can't see me moving mine on yet, maybe an upgrade to the next model up if i get bored but 3 years on it's still doing the business for me. 

Hmm - this thread got me wondering about the new 220 and after looking at the upgrade price for mine to take it to 220 Pro level (effectively i get a brand new unit with the capability to go dual mono later or active) it's rather attractive. Just to be 100% sure  i'm going to see if i can get a quick audition of a 272/250 just to see if Naim has moved the game on at this level. 

james n posted:

Hmm - this thread got me wondering about the new 220 and after looking at the upgrade price for mine to take it to 220 Pro level (effectively i get a brand new unit with the capability to go dual mono later or active) it's rather attractive. Just to be 100% sure  i'm going to see if i can get a quick audition of a 272/250 just to see if Naim has moved the game on at this level. 

James - please post your findings. It will be very interesting to read such a direct comparison.

I listened to the 272/250 vs the 220 pro during an extended day demo the other day. I would say the 220 is quite a bit clearer, and more articulate with a better soundstage. SAM also allows a deeper and fuller bass. 

If i had the money I would have walked away with the 220, no question, but I don't and I had an existing NAP, so I walked away with the 272. 

That said I'd be hugely interested to know what the 272 would sound like with an XP5 or XPS as I've previously heard huge increases in clarity with separate power supplies. 

Who is your dealer SJW ?

I've recently started using Oxford Audio in Oxford, surprisingly. I have been very impressed. 

A guy who works with me has an expression "if it looks good it is good" which he normally uses in connection with cars but I think also says something about his philosophy towards the fairer sex.  If it holds true Devialet must sound awesome!!  I haven't put to the test!!

Regards,

Lindsay

sjw98 posted:

I've recently started using Oxford Audio in Oxford, surprisingly. I have been very impressed. 

Cheers - just checked if my local dealer (PJ -Guildford) was stocking Devialet  so thanks for the pointer to OA 

When I first saw a bevel head Ducati (they were still a current model at the time) it looked like one weird motorcycle but after riding one it starting looking pretty damn good, unfortuneately it was also distinctly high maintenance. If it goes right it will look right but won't necessarily be easy to live with. Come to think of it I've made the same mistake more than once.

Do Devialets hold their value second hand? That's often a good sign.

Never heard Devialet but I struggle to believe their marketing hype. From what I can understand of their technology the end product (sound quality) must be extremely processed, far from the transparent and pure signal path they claim.

Halloween Man posted:

From what I can understand of their technology the end product (sound quality) must be extremely processed, far from the transparent and pure signal path they claim.

What 'processing' are they doing ?

Devialet sounds very impressive but if you listen long enough (f.ex. min. 1 week) you'll find the music exact, transparent but without any emotion and without a soul....I sold my Devialet after 2months (running it with B&W). Check the use-market to see what I'm talking about! (But I'm fully ok with people who like the sound!).

Again my tip: listen for it LONG enough!

james n posted:

Halloween Man posted:

From what I can understand of their technology the end product (sound quality) must be extremely processed, far from the transparent and pure signal path they claim.

What 'processing' are they doing ?

Don't they convert all analog inputs to digital and then from digital back to analog? They claim to have the best DAC (they don't) and the shortest path, 5cm, from DAC to speaker terminal (they don't).

Halloween Man posted:

james n posted:

Halloween Man posted:

From what I can understand of their technology the end product (sound quality) must be extremely processed, far from the transparent and pure signal path they claim.

What 'processing' are they doing ?

Don't they convert all analog inputs to digital and then from digital back to analog? They claim to have the best DAC (they don't) and the shortest path, 5cm, from DAC to speaker terminal (they don't).

 

Yes they convert analogue inputs to digital (handy as you can do RIAA correction in the digital domain). Not a lot of use to me as i only use digital sources so it's a nice straight path. Marketing can contain a lot of rubbish but it's the end result that counts and that works for me. 

Guys - stop being so aggressively partisan (it's like listening to a bunch of Trump supporters). 

Naim is fantastic. Devialet are fantastic. 

I had my D120 for quite a long time and I didn't bond with it. I exchanged it for a 272 which I'm running with a 150x and I'd heard with a 250.2. It's a stunning combo and the 272 is a very impressive bit of Naim kit. 

IMHO, the new Devialet expert pro range are quite a significant jump from their old expert range, and I've spent a lot of time listening to the new d220 pro alongside the 272. It's better. Hands down. Pace, rhythm, timing, emotion. But that's fine - it's more expensive. It's a wonderful bit of kit and devialet have done an awesome job. 

But im sticking with my 272/150x as I think, for me, it's better VFM. 

Just because naim are great, doesn't mean all competitors are lying, marketing-hype driven charlatans!

Relax, have a drink, listen to some music!   

Fair point 

Heard the D120 (hooked to an Intel NUC) and directly compared it against my SU. Better everything. Hands down.

I can easily see a D130Pro in my future. Then again, I can see a 272&250DR with even more ease.

How much is the Devialet D220 Pro. Is it equivalent to the 272/250DR in price. Personally after hearing the NAP 250 DR next to the NAP 200, I feel the 250 DR is the minimum entry to the high level Naim sound.

Both around 7k (3400+3600 Naim), 6990 Devialet

sjw98 posted:

Guys - stop being so aggressively partisan (it's like listening to a bunch of Trump supporters).

Its evident that the Russians are supporting Devialet using their secret service. Naim - contrary to Devialet - has customer service, a recap now and then and Naim would win hands down against the Devialet in the long run.

Why would you build a quality phono stage into a product and then promptly covert the signal to digital and back again?