New TQ Black diamond streaming cable

I'd have said it is like speaker and power cables. It's a cable and they all work the same way whatever it's being used for. Mains power, analogue or digital signal, all we hope is that whatever we put in one end we get at the other 

Chaps - it's a value thing but i do wonder whether some of the effects noticed are due to the introduction of screened cables introducing a grounding variable rather than some fancy engineering in the cable / connectors. Mike B has extensively explored and has written up some very good info on this forum regarding Ethernet cable grounding which is well worth reading. 

I have to confess, i do have a 'fancy' USB cable as i have found my (Not Naim therefore lacking involvement, can't sound any good as it's all in one box and has a switch mode PSU) amp is sensitive to what comes into its USB input. I bought it used to try out as it could be easily sold on and it ended up staying...

I'll get my coat...

Hungryhalibut posted:

They look like Telegartners to me, with a bit of fancy plastic around the connection. At £780 per metre they make my Vodkas seem a veritable bargain.

I wonder how long it will be till Naim introduce SL streaming cables.... There is clearly a market.

And I bet peeps still plug them into a twenty quid Netgear 

certainly the 'in thing' to cash in on right now... until of course fibre comes along for home audio in the next year or so , and then we will see grossly expensive 'audiophile' fibre cables and SFPs.

working in the network industry  my view is anyone is paying more than a few pounds a metre un terminated, no matter what cable then you are being taken advantage of. If you have the cash, by a proper certified cable and give the rest to charity...

 

working in the network industry  my view is anyone is paying more than a few pounds a metre un terminated, no matter what cable then you are being taken advantage of. If you have the cash, by a proper certified cable and give the rest to charity...

I don't work any longer in the industry, but happen to agree with Simon on this. I know a 'streaming HiFi expert' who used to be in Leicester City centre (AKA Phil) who agrees with me on this.......

People need a true 'blind listening' test. The only issue I have ever had with home networking, and my Naim system, is a Virgin media hub, that was solved by using an alternative wireless hub. 

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

And I bet peeps still plug them into a twenty quid Netgear 

.............  point taken Simon,  however unless we stray into the likes of the Cisco Catalyst switches that are (forget the cost) are very sizable lumps of metal & with more ports than the average Naim'ite needs,  we are limited to switches - & I mean across all makes, Netgear, TP-Link, Linksys & Cisco (etc) - to switches with OEM chipsets that seem to carry very common/similar spec's & outside the rarefied ears of the audio/hifi enthusiasts,  all perform & sound the same.   It would be interesting - & I might be tempted to reach for my moth infested wallet - to find a smallish 5 or 8 port switch that does match these - cough - super sound ethernet cables.  Meanwhile I'm sticking with my 20 quid Netgear & MeiCord Cat6.  

Mike, if you are interested to buy and try, Fleabay has at least one  used 2960 8 port Catalyst switch going for just under fifty pounds. I would go for the 8 port versions as they are fanless and silent.

if you do get one drop me a line and  I can give you some configs that may make your UPnP / Naim app experience work better as well.

İ bought 120m cat7 shielded cable from belden for my new house and paid 150£, i still have to buy connectors/wall sockets etc when time comes

i dont mind paying to pay extra, i paid a lot already, but i do mind to pay 1000 times more for just fancy cover work/box/branding 

we need an independent blind test

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

Mike, if you are interested to buy and try, Fleabay has at least one  used 2960 8 port Catalyst switch going for just under fifty pounds. I would go for the 8 port versions as they are fanless and silent. 

I'm obliged Simon,  however my post was more hypothetic in nature, not so much a plea for help.   Some months back I tested a few switches with some friends on a Linn system, one of which owns an IT business & bought along the switches.   Most were small OEM chip set varieties but he also bought a big programmable HP & what I believe was a Cisco Catalyst.   Testing aside the problem I have is the physical size,  as I said in my post "Cisco Catalyst switches that are (forget the cost) are very sizable lumps of metal" the 8 port Cisco is not just 8 ports & is a sizable lump of floor area at 269 x 213,  plus the 230v rear entry power socket.  That's bigger than my NAS 108 x 233 & to fit such a box (for me [& not forgetting 'erself] ) would be a major operation.

Ok, yes I use  small 2960 8 port Catalyst Compact series switches,  2960G-8TC-L with inbuilt PSU  and a 2960PD-8TT-L  which  requires an external DC power supply.  Both have dimensions 1.73 x 10.6 x 8.1 in. (4.4 x 27 x 20.5 cm.)  But either way yes they are definitely larger  than a little Netgear 4 port device.

BTW the devices I have are now end of sale and have been replaced by the 2960-X series - so they are cheaper used at the usual places

Hi Simon. I've taken the plunge and bought a 2960 for £49. It's been factory defaulted apparently, but somehow I feel I'm going to get into a pickle!! I did have your email address but cannot find it now, so if you still have mine, would you mind getting in touch? Just in case of course, though the config tips sound interesting, so long as they can be done by someone who is basically inept when it comes to IT.....

Nigel, you should have mail. Initially if set to factory defaults the best way to setup it up is to use  a terminal emulator on your PC or Mac and most likely a serial lead converter or if you are lucky USB. The serial lead, usually light blue, should be packed with your switch. The idea is that you connect your terminal emulator to the switch. Once in there are many guides what to do and I can advise privately.. this is not consumer equipment so a little thought is required, but in my view the results are worth it.

However don't worry, the switch should/will just work fine with no edits or config straightout of the box .. you just won't be able to take adavatage of some of the special features.

Hmm. Terminal emulator. I'm lost already! I'll give you a shout when it arrives. Presumably it will be OK living on floor - I could put it under the sideboard. 

HH, I hope you keep us updated as to how it goes using the posh switch, as I am another Nigel who is not too hot when it comes to digital gizmos, but I am curious about what impact the switch can have on SQ.

Good luck, but you are in good hands with Simon.

It will be funny if a fifty quid secondhand switch makes more difference than a £295 1.5m AQ cable!! I'm about to find out. My occupational therapist wants me to exercise my brain and I have a feeling this is going to do precisely that...

It's got an IEC mains connector.... Now who's going to try plugging a Powerline into it ....

Hungryhalibut posted:

Hmm. Terminal emulator. I'm lost already! I'll give you a shout when it arrives. Presumably it will be OK living on floor - I could put it under the sideboard. 

Chuckle.. it might be we just leave it as default... but let's see what we can do when it arrives. Living on the floor is fine, I keep one of mine there.

BTW it's unlikely to be equivalent to a cable in terms of SQ, as it addressing different things, but should build on it if your experience is anything like mine.. 

Mike-B posted:

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

And I bet peeps still plug them into a twenty quid Netgear 

.............  point taken Simon,  however unless we stray into the likes of the Cisco Catalyst switches that are (forget the cost) are very sizable lumps of metal & with more ports than the average Naim'ite needs....

Stay away from Cisco Catalyst for anything really using Multicast etc. We attempted to run pro-level Multicast audio (Dante and Blu) as well as AirPlay and various consumer formats over a Cisco 3850 Network. It was an absolute debacle. 

My recommendation for switches that are more "upmarket" than off-the-shelf Netgear is Ubiquiti Networks. They have some new models coming including a managed 8 port 10/100/1000 for $99 USD. 

By the way, I'm a network architect - I'd never buy a network cable over $50. The points raised as to grounding, shielding etc are spot on. Chances are, you'll be plugging a very nice cable into a wall jack that was terminated by an apprentice badly.

I regularly re-terminate network jacks for my friends, after running a series of qualification tests with a Fluke DSX analyser worth $20k. These testers run full frequency, crosstalk, near and far end noise injection and a heap of other tests  

My experience has been that you can get a very stable fully qualified link, even over cat5 cable, as long as the terminations are *very* well done. If you know your cabling is to this standard, then the most I would pay for the final patchcords would be for Panduit Cat6a STP.

People seem to like spending money on cables. If anyone wants me to test a cable vs a standard high quality panduit patch cord and post a PDF of all the graphs, I am happy to do so, you can PM me to arrange shipping and return if your network cable (to Australia)

Cheers!

nigelb posted:

HH, I hope you keep us updated as to how it goes using the posh switch, as I am another Nigel who is not too hot when it comes to digital gizmos, but I am curious about what impact the switch can have on SQ.

Good luck, but you are in good hands with Simon.

Can I join the "not sure what I'm doing, regarding networking", club?

Having blindly followed the "let's see if upgraded ethernet cables can make a difference" experiment, and having been convinced, I might as well see whether this latest route offers further improvement.

I have on order a Cisco switch, which I've been assured has been reset to factory defaults, so am hoping that it will be a simple case of plug and play..............though I've heard that many times before. 

So, as Nigel has requested, can you keep us in the loop, in anticipation of any problems which may arise?

Many thanks.

I think I am going to go into business manufacturing "audiophile" grade network switches with low jitter clocks, a low noise linear power supply, and heat pipe cooling for the RAM and fabric silicon to eliminate the need for fans. I'll also be using huge caps to eliminate PSU ripple. 

I'll build a custom OS that understands uPnP, multicast etc, and re-times the packets to eliminate jitter using custom packet queueing firmware. 

I'm going to be retailing them at about $5995 for an 8 port version, and $2495 for a 5 port version. They'll be fully managed with cable diagnostics built in, and an iphone app to control them. All network connections will be gold-plated. 

Who would be interested ?

We may have to form a a new society Dave

Adam Zielinski posted:

We may have to form a a new society Dave

Logically, those of us with the least knowledge, should rank highest, so I'll propose myself for President, .......................unless, of course, anyone else can display an even sketchier understanding of the subject. 

dave marshall posted:

Adam Zielinski posted:

We may have to form a a new society Dave

Logically, those of us with the least knowledge, should rank highest, so I'll propose myself for President, .......................unless, of course, anyone else can display an even sketchier understanding of the subject. 

I can offer myself for a post of a Secretary then, as I understand what a router is

Router?

A router is a tool used to rout out (hollow out) an area in the face of a relatively hard workpiece, typically of wood or plastic. The main application of routers is in woodworking, especially cabinetry.

Adam Zielinski posted:

A router is a tool used to rout out (hollow out) an area in the face of a relatively hard workpiece, typically of wood or plastic. The main application of routers is in woodworking, especially cabinetry.

So THAT'S where I've been going wrong..........................might explain the "inky blackness" I've been experiencing here, or, to put it differently ............total silence.