New TQ Black diamond streaming cable

Adam Zielinski posted:

We may have to form a a new society Dave

Is that a society for owners of DAVE, or those depressed having heard and unable to afford Dave?

oh, I see,  you were responding to Dave M.  EAsy mistake!

bencrosby posted:

I think I am going to go into business manufacturing "audiophile" grade network switches with low jitter clocks, a low noise linear power supply, and heat pipe cooling for the RAM and fabric silicon to eliminate the need for fans. I'll also be using huge caps to eliminate PSU ripple. 

I'll build a custom OS that understands uPnP, multicast etc, and re-times the packets to eliminate jitter using custom packet queueing firmware. 

I'm going to be retailing them at about $5995 for an 8 port version, and $2495 for a 5 port version. They'll be fully managed with cable diagnostics built in, and an iphone app to control them. All network connections will be gold-plated. 

Who would be interested ?

Two 5-port switches for less than the cost of a single 8-port one? A veritable bargain, cheap at 1/100th of the price!

Yep, the custom firmware will stop you being able to cascade them. Packet timing gets screwed up doing that. So most people will buy the 5 port, then realise they need more ports and buy the 8 port to upgrade. 

1 - Internet Gateway; 2 - Streamer; 3 - NAS; 4 - TV; 5 - Game Console 

Thinking about it, the 5 port will only be 100mbit too. It's safer that way, given you can't really come close to pushing 4 x 25mbit streams from the NAS. 

Then we need the 8 port to be gigabit. Maybe i'll do a 12 port version with DSD optimisations and a single optical 10G port for future proofing. 

Keep an eye on kickstarter. 

bencrosby posted:

I think I am going to go into business manufacturing "audiophile" grade network switches with low jitter clocks, a low noise linear power supply, and heat pipe cooling for the RAM and fabric silicon to eliminate the need for fans. I'll also be using huge caps to eliminate PSU ripple. 

I'll build a custom OS that understands uPnP, multicast etc, and re-times the packets to eliminate jitter using custom packet queueing firmware. 

I'm going to be retailing them at about $5995 for an 8 port version, and $2495 for a 5 port version. They'll be fully managed with cable diagnostics built in, and an iphone app to control them. All network connections will be gold-plated. 

Who would be interested ?

There is at least one already there for the 'audiophile' market - and it has an optimised PHY clock with a precision low jitter source one and improved  PSU - as well as seemingly implementing 802.1p which is the correct way to dealing with frame prioritisation and therefore timing. I am afraid its quite a bit cheaper than your offering - so it will be interesting to see what you are offering in addition   and of course most 8 porters don't need fans these days...

All switches should understand multicast - if they don't I wouldn't touch them with a barge pole - as you will run into big network problems - as essentially layer 2 devices - occasionally peeping into layer 3  they don't need to worry about UPnP etc - KiS. But yes a cheap switch with good backplane - good interfacing - good low noise PSU, support of 802.1p and low jitter/noise PHY clock supporting snooping of DHCP and IGMP as well as interfaces for SFP connectors (for either fibre or twisted pair)  is probably all you need - at around £300/400 I suspect it would sell rather well

S

BTW don't now what your issues have been using Catalyst switches - I suspect even this message is getting to you using them. Absolutely recommend the 2960 series for general managed layer 2 devices and the larger 3750 series for more heavy lifting .. they work incredibly well - and handle advanced functionality really well - which is why they are of course so incredibly popular and you are rarely far away from one in many environments  - and importantly multicast snooping works well on them - perhaps you were using  old firmware versions? or using v3 IGMP?

S

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

BTW don't now what your issues have been using Catalyst switches - I suspect even this message is getting to you using them. Absolutely recommend the 2960 series for general managed layer 2 devices and the larger 3750 series for more heavy lifting .. they work incredibly well - and handle advanced functionality really well - which is why they are of course so incredibly popular and you are rarely far away from one in many environments  - and importantly multicast snooping works well on them - perhaps you were using  old firmware versions? or using v3 IGMP?

S

Long story and probably not appropriate for this forum. Short version: We logged many sev1 issues with catalyst code base 3850s in stacks misbehaving very badly in broadcast AV environment. Dante Audio didn't work properly, multicast failed regularly, AVB support was flaky, PIM didn't work as advertised. LACP misbehaved, and many other issues. Most people never use the advanced stuff in IOS XE. We needed a lot of it, and it was awful. I'll never personally authorise deployment of Cisco again.

Btw I was joking about the switches above - based on the fact people are willing to pay $1000 for a LAN cable. 

I know you were joking - but on a serious note  there is I suspect an opportunity here without being silly money - i think future proofing with fibre SFPs would be neat - as we start to replace our twisted pair ethernet cables for higher end fibre over the next few years..

Chuckle - I am not sure how many are using switch stacks in their home networks.... 

bencrosby posted:

I think I am going to go into business manufacturing "audiophile" grade network switches with low jitter clocks, a low noise linear power supply, and heat pipe cooling for the RAM and fabric silicon to eliminate the need for fans. I'll also be using huge caps to eliminate PSU ripple. 

I'll build a custom OS that understands uPnP, multicast etc, and re-times the packets to eliminate jitter using custom packet queueing firmware. 

I'm going to be retailing them at about $5995 for an 8 port version, and $2495 for a 5 port version. They'll be fully managed with cable diagnostics built in, and an iphone app to control them. All network connections will be gold-plated. 

Who would be interested ?

Not at those prices, particularly if a £50 Cisco switch does the same trick. 

nigelb posted:

bencrosby posted:

I think I am going to go into business manufacturing "audiophile" grade network switches with low jitter clocks, a low noise linear power supply, and heat pipe cooling for the RAM and fabric silicon to eliminate the need for fans. I'll also be using huge caps to eliminate PSU ripple. 

I'll build a custom OS that understands uPnP, multicast etc, and re-times the packets to eliminate jitter using custom packet queueing firmware. 

I'm going to be retailing them at about $5995 for an 8 port version, and $2495 for a 5 port version. They'll be fully managed with cable diagnostics built in, and an iphone app to control them. All network connections will be gold-plated. 

Who would be interested ?

Not at those prices, particularly if a £50 Cisco switch does the same trick. 

Nigel, 

No doubt you understand my sentiment towards a $1000 ethernet cable, when a piece of Cat6A sold at $0.35/M does the same trick.

By the way, all network contacts are gold plated already, and have been for some time. We've just never needed oxygen-free copper, or pure silver conductors or anything like that, and bear in mind that Networking has some quantative datapoints;

10mbits > 100mbits > 1000mbits (gigabit) > 10G. So we can push 1000x the data today that we did "yesterday" - and I can still bring up a solid, error-free 10G link on Cat5e cable at 50M. 

Simon's right though, we'll see optical fiber networks inside our homes within our lifetimes.

You can only be sure a cheap ethernet cable performs the same (in a sonic sense) as a more expensive example if you take the time to actually listen to each side by side.

That is not to say that some manufacturers aren't jumping on the bandwagon and attempting to rip us all off. That also doesn't mean that all ethernet cables perform the same regardless of price. 

This ethernet game is getting rather convoluted. Bring on optical I say!

nigelb posted: 

............ Bring on optical I say!

Is that glass, silica or plastic you have in mind Nigel.  Then wot about fiber or solid core & multi or single mode & what index of refraction stnd ???.   Bet'cha as soon as fiber (fibre) gets into common use we get someone selling super cooled micro polished rare earth sand sourced glass & endless forum debates about which glass gives the best SQ - & all via a £20 opto-switch 

I'll get me coat - nite nite

Mike-B posted:

nigelb posted: 

............ Bring on optical I say!

Is that glass, silica or plastic you have in mind Nigel.  Then wot about fiber or solid core & multi or single mode & what index of refraction stnd ???.   Bet'cha as soon as fiber (fibre) gets into common use we get someone selling super cooled micro polished rare earth sand sourced glass & endless forum debates about which glass gives the best SQ - & all via a £20 opto-switch 

I'll get me coat - nite nite

Bu**er, and there was me thinking that optical would sort all this nonsense.

Mike don't you dare go to bed leaving this preying on my mind!

Nope, as I posted here a few months back, right now fibre is common sense and straightforward, when it becomes mainstream for the audio/hifi consumer there will be a whole load of audiophile variants.. with grotesque price points, you mark my words.

There will also be audiophile SFPs, these are the pluggable fibre and copper transceivers that plug into devices like switches... here it might make sense to have differentiation, and companies like Naim might make/select/specify their own ... that plug into their equipment and at the switch end. The fibre cable(s) then plug into these SFPs. The beauty of SFPs is you can choose different fibre transmission variants as well as twisted copper for legacy twisted pair Ethernet leads to suit without changing the main network or audio equipment.

At least with direct connected fibre into SFPs, RFI, shielding and earth loops with Ethernet leads will all be a thing of the past at that point

PS, if you want to see what a SFP socket looks like (IE what you plug an SFP transceiver into) , look at the rightmost socket on the 2960 image earlier on this thread

Sorry if I caused you a troubled night Nigel.  I did not want to alarm you so did not get into the serious subjects of the opto-permeability of the fiber cladding material & the dielectric properties & static issues with the outer jacket & the optimum anti-static ground bonding.

However back to the real world,  Lindy 90 degree adaptors are still required for optical cables.  I have a new TV & being a tidy cable obsessive,  I bought a 90 degree angle (360 degree swivel) connector for my optical audio feed to the NDX.  

& its a Lindy  !!! 

It's not the latest Ventolin then?

Mike, thanks for sparing the detail about the opto-permeability of the fiber cladding material & the dielectric properties & static issues with the outer jacket & the optimum anti-static ground bonding. I was wondering about that but started to become rather anxious.

Time for some soothing music me thinks.

nigelb posted:

 I was wondering about that but started to become rather anxious.

 

To paraphrase Master Yoda:

'Anxiety leads to stress. Stress leads to anger. Anger leads to the Dark Side.'

And all that just because of some optical cable.... amazing 

Just to keep it grounded (hm...) here is a picture of a duplex fibre SFP - these typically would be inserted into  the audio equipment such as streamer and the switch

and the LCP Duplex fibre would typically look like this

But expect to see audiophile cables appear with iron lead wrapping over them to give that 'expensive' look.

All for a few pounds and i bet it blows away the most expensive ethernet BaseT cable in the world on SQ

Hungryhalibut posted:

It's not the latest Ventolin then?

It came in rather handy after rewiring the new TV aerial cable(s) as I ran out of puff.  

dave marshall posted:

nigelb posted:

HH, I hope you keep us updated as to how it goes using the posh switch, as I am another Nigel who is not too hot when it comes to digital gizmos, but I am curious about what impact the switch can have on SQ.

Good luck, but you are in good hands with Simon.

Can I join the "not sure what I'm doing, regarding networking", club?

Having blindly followed the "let's see if upgraded ethernet cables can make a difference" experiment, and having been convinced, I might as well see whether this latest route offers further improvement.

I have on order a Cisco switch, which I've been assured has been reset to factory defaults, so am hoping that it will be a simple case of plug and play..............though I've heard that many times before. 

So, as Nigel has requested, can you keep us in the loop, in anticipation of any problems which may arise?

Many thanks.

 

Well, my Cisco switch arrived this morning and, as promised, had been reset to factory defaults.

On switching on, it booted up fine, and a comforting row of leds were happily blinking away................so far, so good.

Whether there's any effect on SQ, it's too early to say, but I'll follow my usual routine with new bits of kit, which is to leave it in situ for a week or so, then replace it with the original cheap NetGear switch.

Just to reinforce my lack of knowledge of all things networking, to help with cable routing, does it make the slightest difference which group of the 24 available ethernet ports I plug into?

Nope - as I understand each port has the same priority.

if factory default, then no difference

S