Posh switch - another cause of Audiophilia nervosa?
Posted by: hungryhalibut on 17 November 2016
There have been various threads recently about posh Ethernet cables and mention has been made a few times that plugging them into an el cheapo consumer switch like my little Netgear might not be getting the best from them.
The idea of a pro switch was a bit scary as I'm something of a numpty and want plug and play. Then I discovered that pro switches could be used very simply if required.
SiS has mentioned the Cisco catalyst 2960 as being very good indeed, but at a price of course, like over £300. However you can pick up used ones for much less and my eBay purchase arrived today. It has a proper mains lead rather than wall wart, and amazingly after a minute or two it just worked. I was rather astonished by that, as computer stuff rarely runs smoothly in my house....
It's been warming up for a few hours and it will be interesting to see how it does and whether there is a difference. It's certainly built like a brick outhouse and the post leads go in with a reassuring thunk.
Let's see.
Does anyone know if there is a configuration option on the 2960 24 port version to reduce/ turn-off the fan?
it's a little irritating...
dave.
No - the fan is essential on the higher port units and those units are designed to go in comms rooms/cupboards because of the sound from the fans. The 8 port versions don't use fans and are silent in use and can be used in open office / living space, which is why I recommended them, and not the larger switches unless you can squirrel them away in a sound proof space.
S
MMcCulloch posted:I was having the issue prior to installing the 2960 (which I won't remove on account of SQ). I'm curious what may be causing the delay with the US appearing....
If a device goes to sleep and powers down its ethernet interface - it will by default take longer to reinitialise upon power up on the 2960 as the switch does some checks on the port to detect for loops which otherwise would bring a network down before activating the port. This can be disabled - but one will need to log into the switch and start to configure it. Not difficult - but if not practiced in ICT and network devices it could be a bit bewildering to start to customise the switch - although Cisco publish the guides on line.
As far as the UQ 'appearing' - appearing where? if you are talking about UPnP that is more about application control - not the network switch. Is the streamer taking a time to appear as well? If so it could be down to default UPnP discovery advertisements - again not directly related to the switch in default mode .. but there is a config I use to act as a UPnP discovery helper - but again one needs to know how to log into to configure the switches. Happy to share the IOS config code - but if that means nothing to do I suggest leave alone.
S
> On Dec 19, 2016, at 2:12 AM, Naim Audio Forums <alerts@hoop.la> wrote:
>
Thanks S-I-S and Dupree. I'd describe the problem as the US-SSD taking longer than normal to appear in the NAIM app's UPNP list. Once the US is discovered, it stays connected in the app and I have no issues with it disappearing so long as I stay in the app -- if I switch to another app and then go back the NAIM app, the app takes a few seconds to re-discover the US (I'm using an NDX).
I'm not in any way versed in configuring switches and would likely find it bewildering, although I'm not afraid of trying if you think it's worthwhile
A Cisco Catalyst 2960-8TC (WS-C2960-8TC-L) 8-Port 100Mbits Ethernet Switch arrived today from an eBay seller for £50. It’s been running all day and I’ll give it until Saturday afternoon to level off. But no longer because in my system it sounds awful at the moment.
It’s turned my music system into a HiFi system. Pulling everything apart and adding an unacceptable degree of treble emphasis. I think there is more derail. But this may be an illusion. It could be that the frequency range is full of artificial humps and dips. It certainly does sound artificial compared to the previous easy, life like, organic poise of the presentation.
That the switch has made a significant audible difference is beyond doubt. I will keep listening and try to keep an open mind. But if it doesn’t pull its socks up in the next two days it’s out the door.
what sort of power supply does this cisco switch come with? as i recall, the NetGear 8 port switch that a lot of folk here use apparently benefits from an iFi power supply alternative?
enjoy
ken
Some Cisco's have internal PS others use an outboard unit. I would tread very carefully with iFi iPower unit & be 101% sure of the Cisco's power requirements, it might be too high for the iPower.
Mike-B posted:Some Cisco's have internal PS others use an outboard unit. I would tread very carefully with iFi iPower unit & be 101% sure of the Cisco's power requirements, it might be too high for the iPower.
sorry, i wasnt suggesting to use the iFi --- i was merely asking whether similar power supply upgrade option also exists for the cisco -- if it needs it at all
enjoy
ken
The one I have has an internal supply.
The performance has opened up a new line of cogitation for me. When moving up the range what is the ratio of actual resolution gain versus a different emphasis in different parts of the frequency range to give an impression of better resolution? Same for perceived extension. It's probably why I don't like the 250 - it sounds overly contrived, rather like my Cisco switch.
The system was sounding almost magical. More fool me trying to fix something that wasn't broken. Still, a day or two might make all the difference.
ken c posted:sorry, i wasnt suggesting to use the iFi --- i was merely asking whether similar power supply upgrade option also exists for the cisco -- if it needs it at all
........ understand Ken, I will leave it to the Cisco Catalyst experts & users to determine that one. Meanwhile my new little Cisco baby & its iPower 'wart' are sounding just magical ........ Katie Melua 'In Winter' 48khz .wav
There is only one 8 port Catalyst 2960 that can be externally powered and it uses uses a 48 volt PSU. You can provide what ever powersupply you want for that, including powering it over Ethernet.
i use a SMPS designed for the purpose to power my externally powered switch.
interesting reading Harry's posts, what he finds was the complete opposite to what I find... i.e. Using these switches reduces the artificial / Hi-Fi sound/slight treble glare that sometimes was otherwise presented. I doubt this will change over time, I suspect any benefit will be immediately apparent or not... of course there is the possibility of switch / cable interaction here... but if I were Harry I would revert to what you prefer.
Simon
Harry posted:The system was sounding almost magical. More fool me trying to fix something that wasn't broken. Still, a day or two might make all the difference.
Don't beat yourself up too much, right? When I make a change that makes me appreciate the status quo all the more, it's rather reassuring when I revert. And in this case, not too costly!
Right on Bart. Nothing ventured nothing gained. Trust me to get the result at the fringe of the normal distribution!
I'll give it a chance.
The effect of adding the switch was subtle but easy to notice. I thought the bass went a bit tighter and a little leaner, both of which sounded good to me. Unfortunately, this was accompanied by a ringing, biting edge to the treble which put me somewhat in mind of the DAC/555PS.
You can’t argue with the detail, resolution and sheer crystal clarity of the presentation but it goes all HiFi-like and you start thinking of system parameters rather than the music it is playing. The NDS put paid to all the HiFi and just left the music behind some years ago. The last two days have been a trip down memory lane and a reminder of why I settled where I did.
Putting back the original bog Netgear with its wall wart restored the balance without, it turned out, losing detail so much as shifting the sound balance - and most important of all, put the treble back in the soundstage rather than surging forward and trying to bite my face. One cannot and should not discount the role of the room. I wouldn’t be surprised if that was the most significant contributor.
Having spent some time critically listening today and doing a back to back, I am left wondering if what might seem like more detail might just be a spike of emphasis at that frequency. Not so much more detail as simply a different balance?
£50 wasn’t a huge risk and I’ll keep it as a spare for data. The feedback on this thread had me thinking it was a foregone conclusion. Just goes to show how easily you can be swept along. No harm done though.
Harry...
One thing,how old are your Cisco,I think HungryHalibuts Cisco are from 2011.
They start produce the Cisco 2960 2007 if I'm right,have you an older one......thinking of recap 
.
When my cisco came it was a 2007 years model ,I send it back and the new who came was a 2011 years model.
It feels better to have a later model,and it sounds good.
Any idea how you would read this manufacture date? 20110519
20.11.05 or 19.05.11?
19.05.11
Paulebarrow posted:Any idea how you would read this manufacture date? 20110519
20.11.05 or 19.05.11?
Year: 2011
Month: 05 = May
Day = 19
That's interesting Peder.Thanks for that. Mine was manufactured on November 17th 2008.
Could be it's getting on a bit. Although an eight year old switch isn't exactly ancient.
My system sounded so well balanced and tuneful before the switch and now sounds so good again post the switch that I will leave well alone.
This is obviously a mod worth trying. It did make a difference. It's a positive difference for the vast majority. Buyer beware but no need to be frightened.
Mine's 2008 but was sold as "refurbished" whatever that means, and had a 45 day warranty.
Anyway it sounds fine and has if anything made the treble sound smoother and more spacious and certainly not more forward, presumably it has removed some of the "noise" from the system. It's used with a QNAP NAS and NDS.
The only time it sounded a bit harsh was for a few hours after I replaced the stock mains cable with a Chord C cable, but after 24 hours this had settled down and again there was a bit more clarity and spaciousness.
My Cisco switch (same model as Harry's) dates from 2011. It was bought used but was described as surplus stock and is in good condition so not sure how much service it has actually seen.
Anyway substituting the Netgear with the Cisco only brought good things. Yes the higher frequencies are airier and cleaner, and I particularly notice that lyrics are more intelligible, but there is no harshness or edginess and musicality has improved. The fact that my findings are at odds with Harry's (having made the same switch switch - sorry) would indicate that the rest of the system and indeed the listening room do indeed appear to play a part here.
Thank goodness this was an inexpensive experiment for Harry and the rest of us.
What firmware versions are people running?