Posh switch - another cause of Audiophilia nervosa?

Nigel - indeed - for casual use I wouldn't go there - but if you ever get curious that is the path for unlocking the power of the switch, and they are  bl**dy powerful devices...and fortunately Cisco have a wonderful set of guides that they publish on the public domain WWW  

And I am pleased you, HH and many others on the forum are getting some increased enjoyment from your Naim streamers using these switches.... its what it is all about...

My switch has just arrived (£60 on the bay) and I can say that based on first impressions - via my Qute2 - there is a definite audio improvement. I did a quick check to confirm my observation by reverting back to my Netgear switch, then back to the Cisco 2960 L. Improvement confirmed.

I now can't wait to try against my main NDS rig!

Awesome, many thanks for the recommendation 

David.

adm95 posted:

My switch has just arrived (£60 on the bay) and I can say that based on first impressions - via my Qute2 - there is a definite audio improvement. I did a quick check to confirm my observation by reverting back to my Netgear switch, then back to the Cisco 2960 L. Improvement confirmed.

I now can't wait to try against my main NDS rig!

Awesome, many thanks for the recommendation 

David.

That's good then. Are you able to explain what improvement you found? I'd be interested to know if it's similar to what I found - that the sound is somehow 'nicer', more engaging and real.  Nobody so far has, as far as I recall, mentioned separation, soundstage or other technical things - the difference seems to be all about enjoyment of the music. 

DUPREE posted:

While we may never know the answer it would be interesting to know whether the difference is actually from better Physical layer ethernet performance or just due to the fact they have better and less noisy power supplies and not a 2 dollar wall wart.
> On Dec 14, 2016, at 12:29 PM, Naim Audio Forums <alerts@hoop.la> wrote:
>

I replaced my wall wart with an iFi iPower low noise SMPS on my Netgear 5 port switch and noticed a definite improvement in SQ. But going from that to the Cisco 2960 8 port switch is a bigger improvement. I am not sure if the internal power supply of the Cisco is an improvement over the the iFi iPower SMPS on the Netgear, impossible to judge. I suspect the explanation for the most of the improvement from the switch from Netgear to Cisco (see what I did there) lies in other areas, but I am guessing. Simon might be more suited to answer this one.

Anyway who cares why there is an improvement. There is, it is well worth having and only costs a few quid.

Result!

I think Simon has already answered the question above. As you say, if it sounds better that's good enough for me. It may be the marshmallow effect for all I know. 

I assume that many responding here have the nice Naim streamers with good EMI rejection. If there are any using the Sonore microRendu like I am, and have access to the Cisco Catalyst with the external supply like the 2960CPD  and a low noise linear supply, please give some feedback when you can. I tried but was unable to find one, and they are a little steep for me on the web at the moment.

I've been following this topic with interest and feel it's time to give the said Cisco switch a try.

One question before I do.

The switches in question come in 2 versions, internal and external PSU. Is there any benefit either way as my assumption would be external would be best? 

Any thoughts would be appreciated

^

I am of this opinion too, just for the simple fact that one could use a  power supply of choice for specific audio setups. Today I tried the Catalyst 2960-8TC-L  (built in supply) with a microRendu into the DAC-V1. My take (while comparing to my 8 port TP-Link with iFi Power) was that the  bottom end of the frequency spectrum was more bold with the Cisco, but lost some tonal nuance, detail ~> less 'Joie de vivre'. I can only guess that is due to its power supply. I would like to hear it with a different power source as I think that could be fantastic with the mR.

I have heard no noticeable r memorable  difference between internal or external PSU types...

I believe the improvements from a connected switch can be gained because of lower common mode electrical noise, and as I suspect is the dominant case with the 2960 models , reduced clock jitter on the physical interface.

Brilliant's observation that the Cisco gave less tonal nuance and joie de vivre is interesting - I found the complete opposite into my 272. I cannot detect any negatives at all, and as time goes on I'm liking the impact more and more,  with the switch building on the advantages of the Ethernet wires I changed a few months ago. 

Over the past month or so i've been experimenting with a Cisco 2960, Cisco SG355 and a HP HPE1920 in place of my trusty Netgear GS108.

Every time i sat down to listen to one of the new switches i thought wow that sounds so much better. It was only after about a week or so when i went back to my Netgear switch that i realized my system still sounded just as great. I believe its my state of mind every time i change something and sit down for a critical listen that i find improvements.

I have had the same experience with network cables, USB cables,HDMI cables and speaker jumper cables in replacement for NACA5 F connectors.
I have conducted blind tests with friends and family when they've popped over and they've been unable to identify any item as sounding better. Maybe its just my system as i know there are lots of people who swear by these products as making a noticeable improvement.

Maybe i need to try one of these:-

Music247 posted:

Maybe i need to try one of these:-

Shhhhhh!

Not many people have seen those...

Phil

Phil, my Uniti CoreSwitch has GBIC fibre ports too? Is mine the 555 version?

jon honeyball posted:

Phil, my Uniti CoreSwitch has GBIC fibre ports too? Is mine the 555 version?

That'll be the dev one that needs dual XPSs...

Phil Harris posted:

jon honeyball posted:

Phil, my Uniti CoreSwitch has GBIC fibre ports too? Is mine the 555 version?

That'll be the dev one that needs dual XPSs...

It's been reported that a significant uplift in performance can be had with quadruple 555PS...

Adam Zielinski posted:

Phil Harris posted:

jon honeyball posted:

Phil, my Uniti CoreSwitch has GBIC fibre ports too? Is mine the 555 version?

That'll be the dev one that needs dual XPSs...

It's been reported that a significant uplift in performance can be had with quadruple 555PS...

We eventually dropped that one though as we couldn't get all the Burndy sockets on the back of it...

Phil Harris posted:

We eventually dropped that one though as we couldn't get all the Burndy sockets on the back of it...

I hope it missed your foot Phil, they're bloody heavy those 555PS's.

tonym posted:

Phil Harris posted:

We eventually dropped that one though as we couldn't get all the Burndy sockets on the back of it...

I hope it missed your foot Phil, they're bloody heavy those 555PS's.

Bumching! Thank you very much ladies and gentlemen - we're here every night with a mantinee on Wednesdays...

Music247 posted:

..........    Every time i sat down to listen to one of the new switches i thought wow that sounds so much better. It was only after about a week or so when i went back to my Netgear switch that i realized my system still sounded just as great. I believe its my state of mind every time i change something and sit down for a critical listen that i find improvements.

Interesting;   I've been playing with switches & their power supplies over the last year with both my system & with a friend & his Linn KDS.    My normal set up is a Netgear GS105 ProSafe (powered by iFi iPower PS) between NAS & NDX,  when I swap that switch with my office Netgear FS105 (with its 7.5v Netgear SMPS)  there is a definite negative effect on SQ.  Not sure if its the switch or PS,  but thats not the point,  we do hear a definite SQ change/difference between them.

We've tried numbers of other switches of the 5 & 8 port 'consumer' types, all Gigabit rated & we have both concluded there is no difference or at least nothing other than psychosomatic - maybe - hard to tell.   My buddy has even swapped his business switch, a pukka fully managed HP unit,  again he said no difference.  

I intend to replace my tired old office switch & to swap it with the GS105 & get a new Cisco SG110 on the hifi which is supposed to be a step up from base level consumer units,  managed port power, QoS, cable diagnostics & more than the average (128KB [1Mbit]) memory with 128MB RAM & 128MB flash.  It promises of something different,  but I'm not expecting much if any with SQ ....  

I need the Burndy/CS though for the XPSDR. Can you poke R&D? And the super luminance fibre? Has Roy signed off on that yet?

Music247 posted:

Over the past month or so i've been experimenting with a Cisco 2960, Cisco SG355 and a HP HPE1920 in place of my trusty Netgear GS108.

Every time i sat down to listen to one of the new switches i thought wow that sounds so much better. It was only after about a week or so when i went back to my Netgear switch that i realized my system still sounded just as great. I believe its my state of mind every time i change something and sit down for a critical listen that i find improvements.

I have had the same experience with network cables, USB cables,HDMI cables and speaker jumper cables in replacement for NACA5 F connectors.
I have conducted blind tests with friends and family when they've popped over and they've been unable to identify any item as sounding better. Maybe its just my system as i know there are lots of people who swear by these products as making a noticeable improvement.

if you can't hear a difference - then there is no difference for you. I got somebody to change the leads over with me knowing - I heard it clearly each time, a more natural open sound with grater apparent tonal accuracy and no apparent glare  - and that was before I decided to share on the forum as I always know there are nay sayers - and I wanted to be sure it was not in my imagination - it was the same in the early days of the Hugo. However if you enjoy your Netgear as is than absolutely use it... there is nothing wrong with it - just please don't assume everyone hears the effects of jitter and noise in the same way as you. 

I have also found repeatably differences in NASs acting as media servers. At least here I have the reliable tools to measure this - and there is a distinct pattern of inter frame timing that sounds better than others. Now I suspect this is more software processing oriented - and I think could vary with later Naim firmware - so I have kept that one a little quiet.

The switches I suggest you want to look for are the ones with more accurate clocks - i.e. can act as a PTP sever and/or support synchronous ethernet - those devices have typically better regulated crystal controlled clocks. 

S

What tools are you using?