Feeling under powered

Cardas Cables might be an issue. Cardas use Litz style of wire construction that can have an effect.  Certainly when I demo'd a set my amplifier ran considerably hotter than usual.

Yeah those cables might not be working perfectly with the naim amp. I'd stick with parallel wires. The 803s are bigger and can handle more power. Whatever you find with your wires the 300dr is an awesome amp and I'm sure those speakers would enjoy the extra oomph 

In summary, you had 803 which you found underpowered with the 250, so swapped for 804, which is a good fit for the 250 and are now considering 300, which will initially be paired against the 804 before these loudspeakers are, in turn, replaced with the 803 (D3)s ... have I understood?

The 804s are very good and I run them with a 272/300 and am very happy with the result.  Certainly no problem with power, but the combination is ill-matched (although still happy) and I have started looking for an upgraded speaker.  Auditions confirmed that the 300DR is powerful enough for 803 and 802 and a huge step up from the 804.   

I am slightly surprised that the 250 couldn't drive the 803 speakers, as had understood that the D3s was an easier load that the 80x Diamonds.  However, 300DR will drive them properly and is also a good match with the 272.

As others have pointed out, those Cardas cables may well be holding back the amp in a serious way.  Do you know the spec?  Naim amps like the 250 and 300 need low capacitance and moderate inductance.  Litz or woven type cables should be avoided at all costs.

Ah, I read it as 804s are out, 803s are now in ? 

Blue Bottle posted:

In summary, you had 803 which you found underpowered with the 250, so swapped for 804, which is a good fit for the 250 and are now considering 300, which will initially be paired against the 804 before these loudspeakers are, in turn, replaced with the 803 (D3)s ... have I understood?

The 804s are very good and I run them with a 272/300 and am very happy with the result.  Certainly no problem with power, but the combination is ill-matched (although still happy) and I have started looking for an upgraded speaker.  Auditions confirmed that the 300DR is powerful enough for 803 and 802 and a huge step up from the 804.   

I am slightly surprised that the 250 couldn't drive the 803 speakers, as had understood that the D3s was an easier load that the 80x Diamonds.  However, 300DR will drive them properly and is also a good match with the 272.

Actually I had 804d3's and traded up to 803d3's. I was happy with he 804 and naim set up but ultimately fell in love with the 803's once my dealer brought them in. Unfortunately I find the 803's feel under powered at times. I would trade up to the 300, but the 250/272 combo is the best match. I also cannot go back to the 804's because these 803's are just unrealistically amazing....... at least to my ears. 

Feeding 'cardas golden reference cables', this was my first result;

The Low Capacitance of these cables is listed as a key feature. So, these cables exactly what a NAP250 does not want to see. 

'Not An issue...?' - I think they are. YMMV.

I just looked up those cables on the Cardas website and they are a litz construction. And as for 'power leads that are magic' heaven knows. Perhaps they come from Diagon Alley?

The other thing I'm curious about is whether there is an XPS DR or 555PS DR on the 272. In order to get everything balanced and compatible, I'd be looking at a power supply and new speaker leads, and maybe power leads too. Super Lumina and PowerLines would be my choice, though Tellurium and Chord equivalents are popular too. Doing this will at least demonstrate whether the 250 is up to the task. If not, a 300 will then have a good environment in which to work. But adding a 300 to dubious wires and an underendowed source is not the best way to go. 

I had a friend who used a set of Golden Reference speaker cables between his 500 and DBLs...the 500 ran much hotter to a point it was impossible to touch for more than a couple seconds. High capacitance coupled with low inductance caused the 500 to go into oscillation. Stay away from Cardas speaker cable if you are using a Naim power amp. They do however work a treat with my tube power amps. 

Hungryhalibut posted:

I just looked up those cables on the Cardas website and they are a litz construction. And as for 'power leads that are magic' heaven knows. Perhaps they come from Diagon Alley?

 

That'll be Hagrids Hifi 

ianrobertm posted:

The Low Capacitance of these cables is listed as a key feature. So, these cables exactly what a NAP250 does not want to see. 

These are not low capacitance, "This produces a speaker cable whose capacitance is 36.9pF per foot."   36.9pF per foot is 121pF per meter  - NACA5 is 16pF/m.    That is probably whats causing the 500 with DBL's to run hot.

I run 803D3 from a 250DR and there is no sense of being underpowered at all, in fact the 803D3 were quite happy being fed with a 200 before my upgrade. Speaker cables are NACA5.

So I don't think it is anything to do with your amp ... other posts identifying the speaker cables seem logical.

Seems a simple thing to check out,

Allan

I did go down this road before in the past and prefered the sound of the cardas cable. I was not made aware of the issues associated with cardas/naim pairings. I will revisit the naim speaker wire/power line cables at my local dealers this weekend and see if that makes a difference. 

As an aside to Hi-Fi specifics Cardas wires have a lot going for them . I found them to play out the music in a more cinematic viewerama wide screen fashion. Less forward and more taking the whole as a separate thing outside out of cranium clamp.

.....though I can not resist. Nordost cables are so much better than Cardas.    Cardas manipulates to get character..Nordost just gets out of the way, doesnt stress anything that'll need a service before it's time. 

Nordost flatline cables deform easily throughout the years with unsightly creases. Have owned the Blue Heavens and SPM Reference. On the other hand, the Naca5 cannot be bent and will stay in a nice shape for years to come.

ryder. posted:

Nordost flatline cables deform easily throughout the years with unsightly creases. Have owned the Blue Heavens and SPM Reference. On the other hand, the Naca5 cannot be bent and will stay in a nice shape for years to come.

Depends on how well they are looked after. My Red Dawn cables were as good looking (and crease-free) after more than 10 years use when I swapped them out for SL earlier this year. Clear instructions to our cleaning lady and a complete lack of children and animals in the house might have helped.