Olive to Black (Box Count) Advise

My suggestion is that you stick with your Olive series. Just make sure it's been serviced. NAC 72 is particularly good for vinyl playback and RP10 is a fantastic deck.

That's a very interesting dilemma. The 72, 135s and SBLs are a real classic setup, and as you say it sounds great. Have you thought about what direction you really want to go in? You mention still playing CDs with your 3.5, yet the 272's raison d'être is as a streaming preamp, where you stream your digital music from a hard drive, rather than using a CD player. 

I chose a 272/250DR over a NDX/SN2 because it can be upgraded with only one box rather than two, only uses two mains leads, has a really nice volume knob and has no buttons you don't need. I never bothered to listen to the two options. 

Having owned the 135s I'd guide you to the 250DR rather than the 200 or SN2. I'd also wonder whether you need to change the speakers - of the SBL and D7 I know which I'd rather have. 

Don't forget also that with the 272 or NDX you can include a very good FM module and get built in internet radio. In comparing the two options, I suggest looking at the NDX rather than the ND5. 

As to whether you should change the amps at all, well, that's something else entirely. 

I have exchanged 72/140 against 102/180 only because remote Control. 

Fuego, I'm intrigued as to what's driving this. I mean is it really the box count? Or has the performance of the olives gone off a cliff because they need servicing? If the latter, you might be thinking 'just get something new and let someone else deal with the servicing costs'...

Either way, from what I read here of the reputation of your olive amps, I fear that either of the two black box solutions could be a disappointment. You'd need some dems.

Chris

Adam Zielinski posted:

My suggestion is that you stick with your Olive series. Just make sure it's been serviced. NAC 72 is particularly good for vinyl playback and RP10 is a fantastic deck.

Agreed. Stick and service. You'd miss those 135s. Why the sudden urge to downsize?

Adam Zielinski posted:

My suggestion is that you stick with your Olive series. Just make sure it's been serviced. NAC 72 is particularly good for vinyl playback and RP10 is a fantastic deck.

Maybe - Although My aim really is to limit the box count hence thinking the black series with the benefit of including a top notch streamer.

Hungryhalibut posted:

That's a very interesting dilemma. The 72, 135s and SBLs are a real classic setup, and as you say it sounds great. Have you thought about what direction you really want to go in? You mention still playing CDs with your 3.5, yet the 272's raison d'être is as a streaming preamp, where you stream your digital music from a hard drive, rather than using a CD player. 

I chose a 272/250DR over a NDX/SN2 because it can be upgraded with only one box rather than two, only uses two mains leads, has a really nice volume knob and has no buttons you don't need. I never bothered to listen to the two options. 

Having owned the 135s I'd guide you to the 250DR rather than the 200 or SN2. I'd also wonder whether you need to change the speakers - of the SBL and D7 I know which I'd rather have. 

Don't forget also that with the 272 or NDX you can include a very good FM module and get built in internet radio. In comparing the two options, I suggest looking at the NDX rather than the ND5. 

As to whether you should change the amps at all, well, that's something else entirely. 

Hi Hungryhalibut

My aim is to go for a turntable/streamer driven system, the CD player would only be for existing cd's so as long as it had a line in for the cd player that would be fine - from my research the n272 has three one of which would accommodate the Aria for the turntable.

I gave the two options simply because they are similarly priced but appreciate that mot people will still steer me to the 250DR, Yes the FM module would be ordered and would probably steer towards the 272 set up rather than the NDX with SN2.

The reason for the speaker change is simply that the SBL's are an old speaker and feel the D7's are a great modern speaker with modern materials - they also sound great with Naim - Don't get me wrong I've gone from SBL's to pmc's and back to SBL's so you're talking to a fan.

As far as whether I should change the amps at all - that's  still very much up for debate.

Christopher_M posted:

Fuego, I'm intrigued as to what's driving this. I mean is it really the box count? Or has the performance of the olives gone off a cliff because they need servicing? If the latter, you might be thinking 'just get something new and let someone else deal with the servicing costs'...

Either way, from what I read here of the reputation of your olive amps, I fear that either of the two black box solutions could be a disappointment. You'd need some dems.

Chris

Hi

The motivation I assure you is very much box count and if there was a suitable option that would still give me the required quality against a more attractive hifi rack. The current sound is great but simply takes up a lot of room, I might well have to think outside the box and possibly look at alternative storage solutions but thought first to explore a reduced box count - If indeed that is the best solution.

Loki posted:

Adam Zielinski posted:

My suggestion is that you stick with your Olive series. Just make sure it's been serviced. NAC 72 is particularly good for vinyl playback and RP10 is a fantastic deck.

Agreed. Stick and service. You'd miss those 135s. Why the sudden urge to downsize?

Hi Loki

I think this maybe a common reply, I just like the idea of the convenience of the 272/200or250 and thought I'd get the view of people who may have not only changed olive to black but may have also reduced their box count.

thanks for your thoughts

fuego posted:

Adam Zielinski posted:

My suggestion is that you stick with your Olive series. Just make sure it's been serviced. NAC 72 is particularly good for vinyl playback and RP10 is a fantastic deck.

Maybe - Although My aim really is to limit the box count hence thinking the black series with the benefit of including a top notch streamer.

Reading your other replies I'm afraid you will end up with 3 boxes. N272 + XPS + 250.

If I was doing it now, that's what I would go for, instead of my NDX + SuperNait2 each with its own power supply and an nDAC thrown in for a good measure

I own this exact system Nac-N272/200DR with a Linn LP-12 source and a Synology NAS with Minim as the digital source and have no CD player at all and have gotten rid of all my CD's and have them on the NAS. It is a great system, plenty of power and punch but with great toe tapping and involving playback. I am consistently thrilled and I have gone through many systems over the years. I think the 272 is the sweet spot in their range, it really is an amazing pre-amp/streamer and center to the system. The NAIM app is quite good and I will never own another CD. I find the Analog part of the system very good, the LP-12 sounds great and I have tried it with and without XPS. It is outstanding without it and the XPS is totally not a necessary part, however it does really add that  extra little finesse and detail so you will always have that as an option if you want to upgrade. 200 is a good amp, I would like to eventually get a 250DR when funds permit, but I don't find anything lacking about the 200. I would highly recomend this combo against anything out there as it is really involving and just a pleasure to use.  

In that case, I'll add a little more. About three years ago I was using a CDS2/XPS, 82/Hicap/250, Nat02 and IBLs. It was a great setup, but I started getting tempted by 135s. So to avoid that I sold the lot and bought a SuperUniti and some PMCs and I ripped all my CDs.

The system was very enjoyable for two years, but of course a SuperUniti is not a CDS2 and 82/250, and it didn't quite have the involvement I was looking for. Then in summer 2015 I had a modest cash windfall, sold the SuperUniti and the PMCs and started again with a 272/XPSDR and 250DR, and a pair of SL2s. 

So, via the SU it was the two things you asked about - reduced box count and a swap from olive to black. Is is any good? Yes, it's bloody wonderful. Does that help?

DUPREE posted:

I own this exact system Nac-N272/200DR with a Linn LP-12 source and a Synology NAS with Minim as the digital source and have no CD player at all and have gotten rid of all my CD's and have them on the NAS. It is a great system, plenty of power and punch but with great toe tapping and involving playback. I am consistently thrilled and I have gone through many systems over the years. I think the 272 is the sweet spot in their range, it really is an amazing pre-amp/streamer and center to the system. The NAIM app is quite good and I will never own another CD. I find the Analog part of the system very good, the LP-12 sounds great and I have tried it with and without XPS. It is outstanding without it and the XPS is totally not a necessary part, however it does really add that  extra little finesse and detail so you will always have that as an option if you want to upgrade. 200 is a good amp, I would like to eventually get a 250DR when funds permit, but I don't find anything lacking about the 200. I would highly recomend this combo against anything out there as it is really involving and just a pleasure to use.  

Hi Dupree

Thanks for your insight, a pull back to the smaller system

I think the 272 is a really interesting proposition - My other real concern was how good it could accommodate a turntable which from what you're saying it can do with ease so real food for thought.

Hungryhalibut posted:

In that case, I'll add a little more. About three years ago I was using a CDS2/XPS, 82/Hicap/250, Nat02 and IBLs. It was a great setup, but I started getting tempted by 135s. So to avoid that I sold the lot and bought a SuperUniti and some PMCs and I ripped all my CDs.

The system was very enjoyable for two years, but of course a SuperUniti is not a CDS2 and 82/250, and it didn't quite have the involvement I was looking for. Then in summer 2015 I had a modest cash windfall, sold the SuperUniti and the PMCs and started again with a 272/XPSDR and 250DR, and a pair of SL2s. 

So, via the SU it was the two things you asked about - reduced box count and a swap from olive to black. Is is any good? Yes, it's bloody wonderful. Does that help?

Hi

Yes all be it an extra box but from the advice so far three box's would be the realistic box count. The only difference I guess is that vinyl is my primary source but good to know you're getting great results.

So far I think I'm either looking at the three box option in black or look at altering my current hifi rack to accommodate the extra boxes.

something to sleep on I thing - thanks for your findings

Can't say the 272 really gets my Mojo  going. Herd it with xps DR and 555. Like I say it's not a separate component quality by longshot. Convenient and nice but not dancing in the dark after a couple of shots of single malt. Or even do I care about the  neighbours  getting upset on a Monday night.  Its maybe hifi. So yeah good for some IMO.

Sounsfaber posted:

Can't say the 272 really gets my Mojo  going. Herd it with xps DR and 555. Like I say it's not a separate component quality by longshot. Convenient and nice but not dancing in the dark after a couple of shots of single malt. Or even do I care about the  neighbours  getting upset on a Monday night.  Its maybe hifi. So yeah good for some IMO.

I'm sorry, but that's complete twaddle. 

Hungryhalibut posted:

Sounsfaber posted:

Can't say the 272 really gets my Mojo  going. Herd it with xps DR and 555. Like I say it's not a separate component quality by longshot. Convenient and nice but not dancing in the dark after a couple of shots of single malt. Or even do I care about the  neighbours  getting upset on a Monday night.  Its maybe hifi. So yeah good for some IMO.

I'm sorry, but that's complete twaddle. 

Even though I listened to a 272 and chose something else, I think that's a rather harsh assessment. I still think it's an excellent bit of kit for the money - not that the forum needs to have that debate yet again!! 

FEUGO, I changed from Olive to the Black stuff earlier this year I was using a CDI,82,Supercap and a 250 also used was a third party streamer.

I felt the streamer side was letting the system down so purchased a ex demo NDX the difference was incredible, music from the NAS sounded superb in fact the CDI became an ornament with a green light !

Due to personal lifestyle changes later in the year the first one being I was able to retire early this was good the second one being Diabetic with eyesight problems I was no longer able to hold a driving license this was not so good but life goes on.

As I could no longer have a shiny motor on the drive to look at I decided to divert the funds allocated for a newish car into some new Naim boxes.

At the Bristol Hifi Show earlier this year I attended the Naim demo listening to a 272, XPSdr and 250dr driving both the Focal Sopra 1 and 2 speakers they sounded absolutely superb  it was obvious this 3 box system was rather special Naim also easily demonstrated the improvements  of adding a power supply to the 272.

Whilst after several dealer visits and demo's I ended up purchasing a 252 based system to go with my NDX if I was starting from scratch or box count was a problem a 272 based system would certainly take up residence in my lounge its that good.If you do purchase a 272 you might find that the quality of streaming negates the need for a CD player I certainly don't miss my CDI.

Speakers are a very personal choice I did end up with a pair of D7 speakers my first listen was a pair of PMC 20. 23 but these were not to my liking hence the purchase of the D7s after a lengthy home demo with the black boxes.

I would suggest you visit a dealer and discuss your requirements they can offer invaluable advise and assistance if you embark on this project enjoy your journey to the Dark Side.

Hi fuego. 

Admittedly not quite the same setup but I traded my 82/hc/250 for a supernait2 as I wanted to lower box count and have something that "worked" atheistically with my cd5xs. 

Did I love the supernait2 - yes - it's a wonderful bit of kit and gives you all the punch and naim sound from a modest single box....

Was it quite up to the previous combo - no. The 82/hc/250 is the best setup I've owned and had all the emotion and sparkle you could wish for. 

But was I disappointed - absolutely not. I suspect you're journey won't be dissimilar. 

(I then paired my SN2 with an NDX and that was awesome as a combo but then had to sell for various reasons and then a whole world of Devialet confusion started (see other post) but am on the way back!)

steve 

If it were NDX/SN2 v 272/200 I would say it's a matter of taste and future upgrade choices, however, if it is the ND5XS with the SN2 personally I would choose the 272/200

Sell the CD player and flatcap, change to 272/XPS2 into 135's. You don't need a CD player as well as a streamer if box reduction is the driver.

I've heard all the components, just not together but I reckon it would work very well and only 4 boxes!

I would deal with the speakers separately and after careful consideration, don't limit yourself to just the D7's.

Richard

Hungryhalibut posted:

Sounsfaber posted:

Can't say the 272 really gets my Mojo  going. Herd it with xps DR and 555. Like I say it's not a separate component quality by longshot. Convenient and nice but not dancing in the dark after a couple of shots of single malt. Or even do I care about the  neighbours  getting upset on a Monday night.  Its maybe hifi. So yeah good for some IMO.

I'm sorry, but that's complete twaddle. 

Don't be sorry mate, it's just my opinion.  Doug Graham told me himself it's not up to naim seperate componts. Mind you we where talking 82/282 level. So it MAY pop into the 202 space with the convenience of an iPad. 

sjw98 posted:

Hi fuego. 

Admittedly not quite the same setup but I traded my 82/hc/250 for a supernait2 as I wanted to lower box count and have something that "worked" atheistically with my cd5xs. 

Did I love the supernait2 - yes - it's a wonderful bit of kit and gives you all the punch and naim sound from a modest single box....

Was it quite up to the previous combo - no. The 82/hc/250 is the best setup I've owned and had all the emotion and sparkle you could wish for. 

But was I disappointed - absolutely not. I suspect you're journey won't be dissimilar. 

(I then paired my SN2 with an NDX and that was awesome as a combo but then had to sell for various reasons and then a whole world of Devialet confusion started (see other post) but am on the way back!)

steve 

Although you find the Supernait 2 to be not quite up to the NAC 82 / Hicap / NAP 250 standards, you can still live with the former and enjoy what it does in the system. That is an example of good management of expectations. Some people may not be able to settle for something lesser, just saying. But in this case, I understand it's a lower box count that takes precedence over sound quality. Perhaps the (sound) gap between the Supernait 2 and separates is not too large to begin with, and that may have helped too.

Sorry hungryhali a little bit of tongue in cheek and a little bit of experience, I am the first to line up and defend Naim audio as it has become an obsessive passion of mine, I also would like to comment in my experience naim audio do not do "hifi"  never have never will.

A good friend of mine has an exceptional kit with a 272/xps DR at its front end. I'm just stuck in the dark ages and can't except change. In my youth I was first in line for new tech, these days not at all. People are thinking steaming and I'm thinking LP12.

To be fear the 272 with a suitable power supply has all the pRat and swager anybody could expect from a one box solution. Just not for me, I'm sure my wife would love the extra space that would be gained if it was in my kit. Regards

Guys, I am also a passionate Naimite, but I fail to understand why people (Naimites) try to compare the hybrids to the separates as some sort of equal... they really are different from a SQ point of view when given the opportunity to show this (speakers and rooms) ... but they each offer different capabilities and benefits. The hybrids and integrateds  offer great performance at a good price point... the seperates go further but for usually more money and more real estate.. I really would look at them at different paths on the evolution tree. Both options are great for different types of user and market.. and if you could be suited to either.. listen to both... if you can't hear a difference with your ears and listening environment, get the cheapest or more suited option...