ndac upgrade

jon honeyball posted:

having fun playing with bnc to bnc cables from hdx and other sources...

Naim DC1 is flat and boring

lab grade bncbnc cable is lifelike bouncy and fun

HD-SDI 12G cable is wow

I've used the DC1 for years but recently moved to a Canare 75 ohm BNC-BNC...all of £35 and it sounds excellent. Very well made too. The plugs have a good tight fit.

G

jon honeyball posted:

ongoing system from there is 52/52ps snaxo362/supercapdr 6x135 dbls

Frontending the ndac is HDX on input 1 and something else on input 2. And something else again on input 3. 

For a small free improvement try operating the HDX without the link plug. In this mode the HDX will only respond to IOS devices and the DTC so a little inconvenet. 

GraemeH posted:

jon honeyball posted:

having fun playing with bnc to bnc cables from hdx and other sources...

Naim DC1 is flat and boring

lab grade bncbnc cable is lifelike bouncy and fun

HD-SDI 12G cable is wow

I've used the DC1 for years but recently moved to a Canare 75 ohm BNC-BNC...all of £35 and it sounds excellent. Very well made too. The plugs have a good tight fit.

G

Hmmm. £35 isn't much of a gamble. Maybe I'll try one.

MDS posted:

GraemeH posted:

jon honeyball posted:

having fun playing with bnc to bnc cables from hdx and other sources...

Naim DC1 is flat and boring

lab grade bncbnc cable is lifelike bouncy and fun

HD-SDI 12G cable is wow

I've used the DC1 for years but recently moved to a Canare 75 ohm BNC-BNC...all of £35 and it sounds excellent. Very well made too. The plugs have a good tight fit.

G

Hmmm. £35 isn't much of a gamble. Maybe I'll try one.

Apologies...It's actually £21! 0.5m on a well known auction site.

G

I thought the DC1 was a bit lean. It did suit some material but I didn't find it to be a good all rounder.

MDS posted:

Diggerbj posted:

I often ponder getting a PS for nDac but wonder of I will get the benefit with a 202/200/hicap DR. I get the feeling it will push me into 282/250 territory. 

 

Trying the modestly priced XP5XS on your nDAC might be the way to find out. The XP5XS matches the case-size of the nDAC too. My guess is you would gain a nice performance improvement while maintaining system balance.

I tried the XP5XS with ND5XS, and found the improvement very minor, and not really worth the cost. But replacing the XP5XS and ND5XS internal DAC with Hugo was a significant positive improvement, so whilst I haven't compared with NDAC with or without PS, I think Hugo as a substitute - or better still Hugo TT, would be well worth an audition before deciding on a PS.

Would an nDac + PS (to decide which one) on a Supernait 1 be overkill?

The best source you can get on the front of your system is never overkill. Down chain components can't process and portray details that the source has failed to pick up and pass to them.

Ardbeg10y posted:

Would an nDac + PS (to decide which one) on a Supernait 1 be overkill?

One can never have too good a source. My advice is to search for a pre-loved 555PS.

well there is the issue of xps*dr* versus 555PS *non dr* etc etc. A 555PS might be seemingly good value, as in not a huge amount more, than an XPSDR. But service and DR costs should be factored in.

The XPSDR I bought is ex dem, well run in and not many months old (from cymbiosis). So I am happy i am getting good value *and* a known quality of performance. Tired 555s are fine, but need more money spending on them to ensure they are performing correctly (service) and to their best (DR)

I actually prefer non-DR 555PS on my nDAC. I tried my 555PS DR and I think it took the nDAC to an uncomfortable place. But that's my personal preference. Conversly I prefer 555PSDR on my NDS.

A serviced 555PS, can still be found for around 50-60% of a new XPSDR. That's why I suggested it as an alternative.

new xpsdr is £3820. So 50% of that is £1910. Not sure I have seen many kosher 555PS for under 2k...

jon honeyball posted:

new xpsdr is £3820. So 50% of that is £1910. Not sure I have seen many kosher 555PS for under 2k...

I recently picked up a good one for 2100

For the sake of balance I felt that the DR upgrade to my 555PS with ndac was a tremendous upgrade. Jon do you have the latest firmware? A real 'must do' if you don't!

Yes I have current firmware 

Harry posted:

The best source you can get on the front of your system is never overkill. Down chain components can't process and portray details that the source has failed to pick up and pass to them.

Agree to a point, but I would say that NDS/555 as the best source, connected to a lets say SN2, costing five times less than the source, I would have a huge problem justifying that. In fact, I sold my NDS/555/SN2 for that reason. If I had a plan to upgrade, then it would be another story in my opinion. If the quote above was fully true, it would make streamers (NDX) and preamps/ amps up the hierarchy redundant?

I also wonder why a second hand 555PS is compared to a new XPSDR. It should be apples against apples, both new or both s/h?

I`m about to order an XPSDR to my 272 (where the 555DR would cost me UKP 1600,- more) and wonder, why should I need the 555? Yes, it is better, but at the 272 level, do I need it to enjoy musical replay? It would be source first of course, but so would XPS be and with a greater balance also IMO.  Again, there`s a reason why the box hierarchy is there. 

S

Second-hand 555PS is not being compared to an XPSDR. I used it as a mere price reference. 

In a context of a N272 or NDX I believe that an XPSDR is actually a good upgrade. 555PS maginfies some of the less pleasant NDX traits too much and thus unbalances it somehow.

However with an nDAC I found a clear and audible overall improvement when XPS was substituted with a 555PS. 

It wasn't until I took the demo 555PS off the DAC after a week of home auditioning that I realised just how good it was and how quickly my ears had taken it for granted. I hesitate to call DAC/555PS a 500 level DAC because NDS/555PS is better to my ears. But that's getting on for the kind of performance you can confidently expect.

Back when I couldn't afford anything, people were running fully loaded LP12s into modest amplification and speakers. It wasn't unusual to put 75% of the budget into the front end. Digital and streaming hasn't changed this. Adding a better component anywhere in the chain will usually give benefits but at no point will a source be too good for a decent HiFi system. Even a paradoxically expensive one.

Agree with the Ndac thing, but still not understand how one can justify source first to the extreme. To make balance within the budget is a far better way to go imo and so the LP12 history becomes a "dogma" to me  That said, each to his/ her own.

To the OP, this may have been a side step, sorry!

S

Stover posted:

Agree with the Ndac thing, but still not understand how one can justify source first to the extreme. To make balance within the budget is a far better way to go imo and so the LP12 history becomes a "dogma" to me  That said, each to his/ her own.

To the OP, this may have been a side step, sorry!

S

 

I share your opinion. I also think it is easier to loose money in the source component area than e.g. the power-amp area. I'm strongly hesitating to invest too much money in a streaming source since I feel progress if going much faster in that area than the other components.

Therefore I'm looking for a versatile solution and the nDac - or another dac - is the closest I can get to a good streaming solution. However the streaming component itselve is not likely to be a Naim component at my place given all the connection problems which are also reported on this forum.

Buying a secondhand nDac + powersupply sounds like a proper investment to me. Add a streamer one you are done. Even on NDS level according to some people on this forum.

It's very system dependant how the PSU upgrade works in the end. I recently tested XP5XS and one aftermarket PSU with my nDAC and didn't like either of them. But I have this special situation that I use rather big speakers (ATC SCM40v2) in my rather small (20m2) room and even though the bass stays in great control as is, with PSU upgrade things got worse. In my setup, the bass became overpowering and lost some control with XP5XS. I haven't tried XPS2/DR or 555PS/DR though but XP5XS wasn't for me. My system seems to be in good balance with a bare nDAC. The recent firmware upgrade on the other hand, free and a huge improvement in SQ. 

If I'd still use smaller speakers like my previous PMC 20.23, I think I'd gain much more with the PSU upgrade. 

If you hear it you will be able to justify it. Just because a system is balanced money wise does not mean it will provide the best sound.

If you hear it and don't like it then fair enough. But don't let prejudice get in the way of experience.

Not everyone agrees with the source-first dogma: yes, you can only get out what you put in, but also, regardless of what you put in, you can only get out what each subsequent component lets through. Speakers in fact are the component that most affect the character of the sound you hear, and unless you like the sound they can produce all else is a waste. Less of a problem with those content with, fir example, a curtailed frequency response, but if you are one of those to whom the bottom couple of octaves are important and you want to hear them uncurtailed, then it is likely to require a significant expense on speakers, which may limit the funds available for the source: but you would get the sound character you like, and any future upgrade of source or amp will shine through.

You run the risk they mainly tell you how crap your other equipment is that way and end up wagging the dog.

Patu posted:

It's very system dependant how the PSU upgrade works in the end. I recently tested XP5XS and one aftermarket PSU with my nDAC and didn't like either of them. But I have this special situation that I use rather big speakers (ATC SCM40v2) in my rather small (20m2) room and even though the bass stays in great control as is, with PSU upgrade things got worse. In my setup, the bass became overpowering and lost some control with XP5XS. I haven't tried XPS2/DR or 555PS/DR though but XP5XS wasn't for me. My system seems to be in good balance with a bare nDAC. The recent firmware upgrade on the other hand, free and a huge improvement in SQ. 

If I'd still use smaller speakers like my previous PMC 20.23, I think I'd gain much more with the PSU upgrade. 

My listening room is also 20m2 and I use Focal Electra 1028be's, which are fairly large. Over the years I've regularly needed my dealer to adjust the positioning of my speakers when some improvement has been made to the system because of the extra bass detail that has then reached the speakers.  That was especially the case when improving the PSU on my nDAC.  So I wouldn't judge the XP5 negatively on the basis of you experiencing more bass. A XPS2 and 555PS on your nDAC would very likely give you even more bass. If your ATCs can't be adjusted your probably better living with he 'bare' nDAC, which is still very good.