F1 2016 Redux

Adam Zielinski posted:

Finkfan posted:

Yeah [@mention:50422349809511500]. Even after the the upgrade to Mclaren Honda jazz still no joy. 

To quote from Metallica 'sad but true'. Regardless - one of the best GPs ever is Jason's epic win in Canada. At some stage he was last if I recall. True genius at work.

I remember that well Adam. I kept off my seat when Jenson passed Seb. Fantastic race 

Harry posted:

Nor has he played the race card (Monaco 2011) when he played bumper cars all afternoon and when reprimanded tried to blame it on the colour of his skin.

Hamilton never played the race card... it was a (badly misjudged) attempt at humour. And a response to the racially directed abuse he received from the crowds in his early years.

And it's not like Nico can play the race card... Not when he's German... or is it Finnish, or perhaps a Monégasque.  :-)

Mike-B posted:

Adam Zielinski posted:

At the end of the day a better driver won. A better driver meaning the one who made the best of everything given the circumstances. I never liked Lewis's arrogance and stupidity on the track. He is a very gifted driver, but flawed and thus incomplete in my eyes.

The only reason NR won the championship was car reliability & specifically LH's engine failure in Malaysia,  that was his only DNF in 2016 apart from the infamous coming together when they both DNF's meaning LH finished 18 races, NR finished 19.   Outside of that there was little to choose between them but LH comes out tops on the stats averages,   race wins was 9/9, LH had more poles 11/8 & more podiums 16/15.    

Mike - I beg to differ. There is always going to be an engine failure, some other problem with a car, wrong type of leaves on a track and other 1 million excuses. That's why we have a points system - a driver with more points wins the championship.

Yes [@mention:1566878603969011] race wins 10 - 9 to Lewis. 

wenger2015 posted:

Finkfan posted:

I think fans for either driver will find fault in the other. They have both made mistakes on and off the track. These are highly paid youngsters at the top of their game. They don't live in the same world as most of us. Emotions run high. The sport will sadly miss the great JB behind the wheel. A genuinely nice guy 

It's a great shame he's spent the last few years driving a Mclaren Robin reliant.....

Still, he gets to drive some nice cars the rest of the time...

It's not a bad life is it. 

Eloise posted:

Mike-B posted:

The only reason NR won the championship was car reliability & specifically LH's engine failure in Malaysia,  that was his only DNF in 2016 apart from the infamous coming together when they both DNF's meaning LH finished 19 races, NR finished 20.   Outside of that there was little to choose between them but LH comes out tops on the stats averages,   race wins was 10/9, LH had more poles 12/8 & more podiums 17/16.    

Wasn't it 10 wins for Lewis, 9 for Nico?

Whoops,  yes you're right,  I did not include today's stats  doh !!!    ........... corrected above.     

In my opinium NR is not close to LH,  over three years with Mercedes LH has always beaten him,  & the stats show the same in 2016.   NR is not a racer,  just look at his performance in Monaco, that sums it up.    

I wonder what a retired, nearly 37yo, multi millionaire does with his days? 

Runs a lot. Rides his bike. Swims a bit.

JamieWednesday posted:

Runs a lot. Rides his bike. Swims a bit.

I think you got that backwards... triathlons start with the swim, then you bike a lot before a moderate run!

Pedant

Eloise posted:

JamieWednesday posted:

Runs a lot. Rides his bike. Swims a bit.

I think you got that backwards... triathlons start with the swim, then you bike a lot before a moderate run!

From the pictures above he drives abit as well... no doubt moderately....

Finkfan posted:

Adam Zielinski posted:

Finkfan posted:

Yeah [@mention:50422349809511500]. Even after the the upgrade to Mclaren Honda jazz still no joy. 

To quote from Metallica 'sad but true'. Regardless - one of the best GPs ever is Jason's epic win in Canada. At some stage he was last if I recall. True genius at work.

I remember that well Adam. I kept off my seat when Jenson passed Seb. Fantastic race 

As I recall I think it rained abit that day.....but as said an absolutely superb race

2015 Mercedes win all but 3 races

2016 all but two. Clean sweep 2017?

Is dominance at this level good for the sport? I know it is not the only problem but seems to me a major one. Not easy to resolve either I would think. How to stop a team being too good?

This is the first year I have not watched a single race on TV either live or highlights.

Bruce

Bruce Woodhouse posted:

How to stop a team being too good?

 

The question ought to be different though:

How to make other teams better?

Bruce Woodhouse posted:

Clean sweep 2017?

People don't expect so because of the increased importance of aerodynamics where Mercedes are good but not the leader.  You might see Red Bull back at the front and dominating.

Is dominance at this level good for the sport? I know it is not the only problem but seems to me a major one. Not easy to resolve either I would think. How to stop a team being too good?

Well they change the rules to suit the other teams more.  Mercedes should still be up there though so long as the tyres work out for them (guessing based on pre 2014 car performance where Mercedes did okay but often "ran out of tyres" much quicker than other teams).

I do prefer Adam's comment though ... "How to make the other teams better".  Of course a lot comes down to money - though in 2015 (figures I found quickly) Red Bull outspent Mercedes with McLaren and Ferrari close behind Mercedes but then a gulf to Williams in 5th who spent around half the $400million spent by each of the top 4 teams.

This is the first year I have not watched a single race on TV either live or highlights.

Was that because you no longer have access via BBC, or just because the races were boring (to your mind though there were some good races - better than some in the "Vettel" period IMO)?

There have been seasons of "total dominance" by individual teams in F1 since I became interested in 1960s. Lotus, McLaren, Red Bull and, of course, Ferrari over the years for instance.

It's cyclical. At the moment it's Mercedes. In future it will be someone else. 

What stops me watching so many races on TV are two rapacious old men who have more money than they need already.

steve 

I guess I have just stopped being interested, probably from about 3-4 years ago.  I found the contrivances such as DRS, tyres made of cheese etc were the main killer at that time.

I would happily have watched C4 rather than BBC if I felt it was worth the time commitment. I just don't find it entertaining any more. Not sure I'm alone in that, although some of it is obviously me. Feel the same way about most footie too!

Bruce

Bruce Woodhouse posted:

I guess I have just stopped being interested, probably from about 3-4 years ago.  I found the contrivances such as DRS, tyres made of cheese etc were the main killer at that time.

I would happily have watched C4 rather than BBC if I felt it was worth the time commitment. I just don't find it entertaining any more. Not sure I'm alone in that, although some of it is obviously me. Feel the same way about most footie too!

Bruce

I must admit, I'm starting to feel that way, just a little ....everybody tells me it's the first symptom of old age...

I have been showing those sx since my mid twenties...

Congrats to Nico, he played the long game. The passion for Lewis is elsewhere, music & fashion, he paid the price as a result and has taken a hit on his 'dirty tricks' integrity.

It will be interesting to see how the cars evolve next season, but it would have been interesting to see what Max Verstappen would have done in the Mercedes. He'll be the driver to watch.

I wonder if Jensen or Massa will turn to TV commentary...

Frank F posted:

Finkfan posted:

I agree [@mention:1566878603918516]. Lewis has had more car issues to deal with and if it wasn't for that he'd have another title. I guess that comes with the job. For me Lewis is a better driver. Never been a Nico fan. Tantalisingly close race. 

German team world champions, German driver world champion....is this more Mercedes clever engineering? 

NO!!  Rosberg is really Finnish - his father was a Finn but his mother wasGerman and by a twist of fate, one of the few remaining Laws from a certain Mr A Hitler survives today.  It says that if one parent is German then the children must be. OK Nico was born in Germany but most countries allow the fathers nationality to be used.

FF

The Finnish flag looks very very similar to the German flag then. And I can't tell the difference between the national anthems either.

Guy007 posted:

Congrats to Nico, he played the long game. The passion for Lewis is elsewhere, music & fashion, he paid the price as a result and has taken a hit on his 'dirty tricks' integrity.

It will be interesting to see how the cars evolve next season, but it would have been interesting to see what Max Verstappen would have done in the Mercedes. He'll be the driver to watch.

I wonder if Jensen or Massa will turn to TV commentary...

Don't quite understand your logic, if Lewis didn't have an engine blow up a few races back, he would be world champion..... 

You can't knock him for liking music.......possibly a very dodgy haircut though 

Guy007 posted:

Congrats to Nico, he played the long game. The passion for Lewis is elsewhere, music & fashion, he paid the price as a result and has taken a hit on his 'dirty tricks' integrity.

It will be interesting to see how the cars evolve next season, but it would have been interesting to see what Max Verstappen would have done in the Mercedes. He'll be the driver to watch.

I wonder if Jensen or Massa will turn to TV commentary...

Not quite sure how you arrived at that conclusion.  The difference between the two this year was engine reliability and nothing more.  I doubt there is a more skilled driver/racer in F1 at the moment than Lewis regardless of how he is off the track.  Personally I thought he drive brilliantly in the last race and did everything he could within the rules to try and retain his title whilst leading and controlling the race with ease

Frank F posted:

Finkfan posted:

I agree [@mention:1566878603918516]. Lewis has had more car issues to deal with and if it wasn't for that he'd have another title. I guess that comes with the job. For me Lewis is a better driver. Never been a Nico fan. Tantalisingly close race. 

German team world champions, German driver world champion....is this more Mercedes clever engineering? 

NO!!  Rosberg is really Finnish - his father was a Finn but his mother wasGerman and by a twist of fate, one of the few remaining Laws from a certain Mr A Hitler survives today.  It says that if one parent is German then the children must be. OK Nico was born in Germany but most countries allow the fathers nationality to be used.

He was also raised most of his life in Monaco...