Hi my first post

You may have sensitive speakers, in which case the gain can be quite surprising until you get used to it. Remember that for Lind sources like ND5XS, the maximum volume of the amp is around the 12 o'clock mark. Lower output sources such as phono stages may go a bit further.

Frank.

What are your speakers and how big is your room?

Thanks Frank i have the Kef LS50 their sensitivity is 85db

i was thinking of a pair of In-Line WBT-0110 Attenuators -16dB from russ andrews ?

sorry room is 13ft by 13ft

Welcome, Tony.

Volume controls of many Naim amps seem to be calibrated for low level inputs like vinyl phono-stages.  CD players have higher outputs. I have a CD source and fairly sensitive speakers and with my previous 282 and now 552 the volume control is usually between 8 'o' clock and 9 'o' clock. So provided the quality of the sound is to your liking I wouldn't worry about it.     

Mike

That's normal for a Naim pre that uses a potentiometer, have you found the nudge function on the remote? They claim the pot sounds better in its first half or so. A rapid press on the remote volume will change it a notch at a time, a press and hold will move it rapidly and a short press followed but a press and hold will move it slowly. It can be an annoying quirk at first but you get used to it.  The Nait 5 and 112(x) had resistor ladders and each input could be individually adjusted for level but they didn't sound as good. (I had a Nait 5).

Thanks guys I know the units will take many hours of running in.

I certainly wouldn't use attenuators, and while it may not sound very helpful, the best way is just to get used to it. It is a bit annoying though, and one of the best features of boxes like the 172 and 272 is that they have really nice volume controls that go evenly from 0 to 100. 

Hungryhalibut posted:

I certainly wouldn't use attenuators, and while it may not sound very helpful, the best way is just to get used to it.  

Good advice from HH.  Attenuators are to be avoided. 

again thank you for your great advice. Tony

Moussa posted:

What are your speakers and how big is your room?

 Very close to my room and I hardly go more than 9:00 o'clock on the SN2 with 86db speakers, Neat SX2

Welcome Tony... excellent choice of hardware (Naim, I mean).

I'm with HH and MDS on those attenuators, although if you like the sound of MP's played through a transistor radio, then maybe you'll get on with attenuators... no, wait a minute, you've got a Supernait... defo no attenuators, just go slow with the volume knob.  (as it happens my own volume knob is at 9 o'clock when the music is loud and it's at 11 o'clock when the neigjhbour from two doors down the street complains.  I once had it round to 1 o'clock... and blew the fuse* in my power amp !! )

Roger 

* - by way of note, my power amp turned out to be faulty, but I've never again tried the 1 o'clock position after my repaired amp was returned from Naim

Thanks guys i will give the attenuators a miss. 

Tony.

tonycurran1 posted:

Thanks guys i will give the attenuators a miss. 

Tony.

Good decision !! 

Welcome to the forum Tony.

When I first installed a Naim amp I was also a bit concerned that 75% of the volume knob seemed redundant - just got used to it now that between 8 and 9 o clock is normal and 10 to 11 is for beasty time

Went on holiday once and my kids (in their 20's at that time) had a wee party and managed to blow the speaker cones on my B&W CD1M speakers with the NAP 200 volume up to 1-2 o clock

... so beware

Allan

The issue is made worse by the way so many modern CDs are mastered - i.e. way too loud, to the point where the dynamic range suffers.  Compare to a CD issue from the mid to late '80s and you'll find there's much more usability to the volume control.  Take a well mastered disc such as A Walk Across The Rooftops by The Blue Nile.  When I play this CD on the big system at "reasonable levels" the volume control is invariably up at 11-12 o'clock.  However, if I then put a recent release or remastered disc on straight afterwards, if I don't turn down the volume knob it can come as quite a shock with the scary blast of very loud music that ensues.

All the above is true. The problem is 'worse' with a non-Naim CD player, in my experience - such as an Arcam or Rega, whose outputs are often on the high side. But with a Naim CD, you have the best option. Avoid attenuators if you can, pls.  Less of a prob with vinyl replay - I have had Naim volume controls round to 1 o'clock, playing LP's - OMG its loud - and very 'reasonable'....! But with CD's, no way.

Also true as @Richard Dane says, re the mastering levels used for CD - so-called 'Loudness Wars'. It was better when CD mastering was less well understood, and levels were kept down. IMO, it went wrong somewhere in the 1990's. I recall comparing a then new REM offering on Vinyl & CD - the CD was obviously much louder. 

You will get used to it.....  

Hi Richard,

I own that cd, it's good for volume adjustment but especially with lesser system it always leaved me a bit cold for overall  engament, pretty better is  the following album "HATS" I also remember that with vinyl issue, the UK print or so called "LINN CUT" had a wider grooves width.

Regards

Roberto

Richard Dane posted:

The issue is made worse by the way so many modern CDs are mastered - i.e. way too loud, to the point where the dynamic range suffers.  Compare to a CD issue from the mid to late '80s and you'll find there's much more usability to the volume control.  Take a well mastered disc such as A Walk Across The Rooftops by The Blue Nile.  When I play this CD on the big system at "reasonable levels" the volume control is invariably up at 11-12 o'clock.  However, if I then put a recent release or remastered disc on straight afterwards, if I don't turn down the volume knob it can come as quite a shock with the scary blast of very loud music that ensues.

Indeed, it was quiet on the original vinyl as well as the CD, but with terrific dynamic range. Many modern CDs are crazily loud. 

To me, the biggest win was Dynamics when I arrived in the Naim world. My Supernait does not seem to be too refined, but it was and still is a breathtaking experience when e.g. symphonies are build up from whispering soft to crazy loud without touching the volume knob.

My wife hates that, as well as my cat. She (both) prefers these settings which forces all music on equal volume levels.

The problem is particularly bad with things like Chord's DACs. Normal line level equipment (CD players etc) have a nominal output of 2V. The Chords are up at 3V and 3.3V for the DAVE I believe. Crazy. This just reduces the available headroom in the following amplifier.

Frank.

It's primarily a problem with the CD transfer level.  The red book standard specifies that the nominal transfer level is 18dB below the maximum output level (normally - i.e. according to the CD hardware standard - this is 2V RMS), however many recent CDs have been pressed with a nominal transfer level only 8dB below maximum, this way they have over three times the nominal output voltage specified by the standard.

In fact if a CD is pressed at the correct transfer level of -18dB, the nominal output is actually 256mV RMS.

Tony,

I experienced the same problem with my Supernait1, with Naim speakers. The 'problem' with its high gain was reported in Stereophile's review of Jan 30, 2008:

In many ways, the Naim Supernait offers excellent measured performance (...) but (...) the amplifier's ultimate noise performance is compromised to an extent by the higher-than-necessary gain.—John Atkinson

You may decide to live with it, or use small, sealed box speakers (not bad designs at all, BTW), which are usually much less sensitive than others; but I too was bothered by the problem, since everybody or so agree that a potentiometer's best working range is from 11~12 onward...

Best

M