Advice for buying used DBLs

I can't speak directly to the DBLs, but in the scenario you proposed I'd look for a good, long listening session that provides time for the gear to warm up, speaker repositioning, and includes a variety of music with both good and marginal mastering quality.

Beyond that, consider that no matter how good or bad the DBLs sound in the host's room there is no guarantee they'll perform similarly in your room. That said, you can make some suppositions about the host's room in comparison to yours with regard to size and construction, so it's probably a more realistic situation than listening in a dealer's professionally padded room.

I'd also offer that by going to the seller's home you may develop enough of a trust relationship to pay for the speakers contingent on a refund if the DBLs don't work out for you at home. I did this once with a local Craiglist sale of HPs - paid for them, took them home to listen on my gear, and then was able to return them for my money back. All on a "good feel" about the person I was dealing with.

Just my two cents and hopefully you'll get some more specific information on what to look out for physically on the DBLs themselves and perhaps expectations with a Nait 2. Cheers.

OK, time to see clearly now...

DBLs will "work" on the end of your Apollo and NAIT, but they're far from ideal. Better to send that sort of money on a better source and more suitable speakers - you'll have a far more engaging and satisfying system.  

Here's the deal. DBLs are revealing and will tell all that's right, as well as all that's wrong with your source and, to a lesser extent, amplification.  And bear in mind that your "bargain" DBLs can soon turn out to be costly; you will need a new gasket kit (not cheap) from the off;  The Grilles will eventually rot out and proper replacements are no more; The ATC Bass drivers will need to be re-foamed at some point.  Tweeters and midrange drivers can die (more likely when under or over driven) - not cheap. That's before we even consider the money needed for the kind of upgrades required to get them singing.  And that's before we even consider the sheer logistics of the DBLs.  They are not a one-man lift.  You will need two strong people to move the main box - ideally using the custom made lifting irons (do these come in the sale?).

If you're happy to accept all that, then by all means.  Otherwise, walk away...

Tut tut, so much negativity! The OP accepts the DBLs might not work in his present listening room, or very well with his current electronics, but it seems to me these are for possible later use, and they're a bargain price! With Richard's caveats regarding foams and bass drivers (the mids and tweeters, provided you don't do anything nasty to them, are pretty bulletproof), I'd go and fill your boots! You'll have a wonderful pair of speakers, I've yet to hear better. You intend to check them out by giving them a good listen with different types of music so just make sure the individual drivers are performing well, the cabinets are intact, etc. Just common sense really. Remember, although they initially look a bit on the large size you quickly get used to them & hardly notice them (or so I told SWMBO). Until you use them to play music of course...

Tony, perhaps you'd like to post a picture of the little system you use to drive yours. There's no point buying a large property if you can't heat it. 

Go for it, I've just bought a pair little over a month ago, regrets - none

you are correct in that your system is inappropriate but that's not really an issue as you plan to upgrade,  amps, T/T's etc will all still be available, DBLs probably not.

i would look at the general condition of them, ensure all drivers work and any black spots on the crossovers ( these come off the back quite easily) the foam around the bass drivers can deteriorate 

tweeters are still made by scanspeak and are not too expensive, bass drivers can be reconditioned by ATC, a chap on here is doing that right now

you will need to re seal the bass unit gasket (or need a new gasket) once again a fairly easy job and not too expensive 

you will need a decent size room, these things are huge whichever way you look at them 

the other question to ask is what would you get instead of DBLs and how much would that cost !!

perhaps start another post asking DBL owners if they would part with them and what would they replace them with 

i have just bought my last set of speakers 

Buy them, before I do and I already have a cherry pair!

There are not many speakers that better the naim DBL, if any at all.

Serviceability is not too bad either, only mid range drivers are unavailable, most other common faults are fixable.  After market grills are also available. Not bad for a speaker that has not been manufactured for about 10 years or so.

Mario

Best to add that after market grilles cost (from the States) USD 500 + USD 75 for shipping + $$ for customs, last I checked.

Should be getting my DBL woofers back today from ATC :-)

I would buy them and worry about the other stuff later.  You will always be able to be able to sell them if you don't get on with them, and when you do, I will buy them  The Nait 2 works well with my SBL's but I think DBL's will be too much for it.  I've tried it with big Tannoys and  while it 'works', more power is required to control them properly.  Those DB's are massive too!  Good luck whatever you do.  Buying Naim is fun so I am sure you'll be pleased if you get them.

Replacement foam grills are available.  The idiotic forum rules prevent me from posting a link, but Google: DBL foam grills and you will find the manufacturer. 

Thank you Chris.

Thanks guys.  My main concern at this point is simply the sheer physicality of the speakers.  I read somewhere that the L boxes alone weigh 65 kg.   Good grief.  

As to spending more money on a source instead of these speakers, the source I intend to use is the Apollo-R through an nDac.  The DBLs are so cheap that if I buy a lesser speaker it barely leaves enough money to upgrade the source - not even enough to add a XP5 XS to the nDac.

Oh and Hungry Halibut, as to your snark about being able to heat a large property, I'll have you know the fire from the Nait 2 burns hottest of all!

Someone once said to me - if you see a mushroom, then pick it!

I've had mine for nearly 20 years; every improvement made "upstream" is clearly heard through them.

You have had good advice from other owners here - they are truly magnificent.

Let us know what you decide.

Regards

Trev

The L box is more awkward than heavy, it's a 2 man job, take the bass units off as the mastic is unlikely to survive the move. The 65kg is without the bass unit !! The bass unit and mid/ treble are fairly easy one man lifts

these are not straightforward plug in and play speakers, the extra effort will be paid back ten fold

As to the rest of your kit in the long term the TT wants to be pretty near the top rung of the many alternatives out there. Amps think along the lines of a 52 pre then opinions divide between a single 500 or half a dozen 135's

personally I've been active for many years so I'm firmly in the half a dozen 135 camp

Just out of curiosity, what would you guys be willing to pay for 15 year old DBLs in good cosmetic and working condition with all the original boxes?  I looked up the historical prices on Audiogon, but am looking for a further sanity check.

I paid £3650 a couple of months ago, mine are older than 15 years, but I think condition is the criteria rather than age

lyndon

I've seen them listed for about £5k, but then they are only worth what someone is willing to pay for them.  How much were they new?  I think I paid £580 for my SBL's and they're about 25 years old but they were like new apart from the grills.  New grills from James at Tomtom audio and they truly look new.  I guess the DBL's are considerably more expensive than SBL's, but are they considerably better sound wise?  I'd love to hear a set!!  I'd love some but I think my wife would go spare if I tried to shoehorn them into the lounge

Always wanted a pair.

DBL's Ahhhh, when Naim knew how to build speakers! The first time I heard them, really was a jaw dropping experience.

If you do buy them be sure to furnish this thread with plenty of photos

There are two sorts of DBL users. Those who are active and happy. Those who are passive and are kidding themselves.

Go active. Dont even think about it. 

I decided not to get them.  After reading Richard's comments (and Ron Toolsie's in other threads) and speaking with another forum member who owns a pair, I concluded the impracticality of the DBLs was too much to overcome at any almost price.  I feel like a hunter who for years heard tales of a legendary beast, but when I suddenly found it in my crosshairs I had to put the gun down.  

The size of the speakers was already at the outer limit of what our living room could handle.  Plus, I have two year old twins.  I would have had to run them out in the garage for at least the next few years, and what's the fun in that?  I'd be running out there and shivering for 15 minute sessions here and there, like a smoker stepping outside for a break in the middle of winter.  Plus my system is just not up to the task and would have compelled me to make additional investments in the electronics.  

To be clear, I would have been running them initially with a nDac/82/Flatcap2/150, not the Nait2/Apollo-R combo which I mentioned simply as a small system that could have been easily transported just to test out the DBLs before buying. I probably would have had to add a power supply for the nDac, a HiCap and a 250 just to get the electronics somewhat on par with the speakers.  When coupled with additional expenditures for foam grills (thanks to Chris Bell for pointing out that site) and possible repairs over time it was all just too much of a project.

Ultimately, this was a solution in search of a problem.  Now, if this had been electronics like a 252/supercap for $3,000, i.e. something further upstream that I could use immediately, I wouldn't have had to think twice about it.  

Thank you to everyone who commented.

I think that's very wise. Have you thought of swapping the 150 for an olive 250 and getting some SBLs or IBLs. The IBLs are wonderful little things and are often referred to as a mini DBL. I used some with an 82/250 and they were super. You could do these things for under £1,000, and they'd fit in the house, which has got to be a bonus. 

Funny you should mention that.  Yes, I am ultimately going to add an olive 250 and an olive hicap or supercap, and then finish the process with the speakers, although I may put a power supply on the nDac.  Right now I am running ATC SCM7s and they seem to saying they will give more if I put a 250 on them.  Just outstanding speakers.  I would like to do SBLs when the time comes.  

ngarritson posted:

Right now I am running ATC SCM7s and they seem to saying they will give more if I put a 250 on them.  

I can vouch for that. I have SCM7s with a 250 (chrome bumper) up them, and it's a very happy combination: when you crank the volume and close your eyes, it's hard to believe the sound is coming from such small speakers. My pre is a 282/SC, and my hunch is that I could go much further up the ladder without the SCM7s being outclassed.