I’m trying to decide on the purchase of a cheap (by Naim standards) streamer. So why ask on a Naim forum? I think you’re more likely to understand what I’m looking for!!!
System is 72/Hicap/140 (yes, old but all serviced!) playing through Rega Mk 1.5 Elas. For serious listening I have a modest LP12, Akito, DV20XH, Linn Lingo 1 (serviced) all rebuilt by Cymbiosis. But for day to day use (eg around family and grandkids!) I use a Squeezebox Classic (SB3) to stream FLAC from a Synology NAS (wired Ethernet), or to play internet radio (mostly BBC HLS streams!).
What’s wrong with the SB3? Well it functions fine, but can’t play HiRes files (I’ve quite a few now, initially bought for my Pono portable player. I occasionally make the effort to play them through the main HiFi using computer and small USB Meridian Dac.) Computer audio has little interest for me, and I have no Apple products! I guess an Android control app is about as far as I wish to go! Additionally the SB3 sound quality is no more than acceptable!
So, options: well an external DAC would obviously improve the sq but not allow streaming of HiRes files. The Chord MoJo is the obvious choice, though I’m not convinced by battery power in a home setup (it might lie dormant for several days on occasion, and needs to be available when opportunity for use occurs!) and it just looks so toy-like!!
So what of streamers? ND5XS is the Holy Grail, and even second hand is unaffordable! No I won’t go to hear one, even if I briefly had the funds they would go on family/grandkids/holidays before I’d get a lookin! The Cambridge Audio CXN looked perfect, until I looked deeper: No HLS streams for BBC radio rules it out, and no TIDAL option is disappointing if not a complete impasse. But it is probably the best sq I could afford? Pioneer N50A has a great price and TIDAL support, but no BBC HLS and nothing to shout about in terms of sq (but might be an improvement on SB3??). Then I stumbled on the Bluesound Node 2: all the connectivity I could wish for, BBC HLS streams and TIDAL included, but ?? sq. All the reviews seem to be in the context of computer audio comparisons – what does it really sound like? And a meaningful audition seems impossible!
I’d just about convinced myself to go for the Bluesound Node 2 when, after an afternoon of radio and a solitary FLAC cd (followed by some rubbish TV) I got the opportunity to play some vinyl. A cold deck and the first few bars of Deacon Blue (nothing exceptional musically) and the sq difference was glaring!! Back to the idea of a better DAC, but how to solve the HiRes files problem? Can RaspberryPi stream 24/192 cheaply enough and well enough (with my very limited programming skills) to be a valid second streaming source alongside the SB3?? Is Chord MoJo the only option??!
Maybe I’m just dreaming and should abandon the whole idea?
(I guess my absolute maximum budget is ~£650)
Thoughts anyone?
Posted on: 02 December 2016 by Ardbeg10y
Same question here, and I saw the Chord Mojo too - could be useful in my case since I'm half of my time travelling to uncivilized places on this planet.
My plan is to separate the streaming device and Dac. I believe that there are a lot of developments ongoing currently in the streaming world and therefore I hesitate to get an NDX or so, but prefer the nDac (e.g.) in combination with a streaming device.
Have you tried the ChromeCast Audio?
According to the BBC website, it is supported.
Whatever Dac you choose, you could add the ChromeCast Audio to stream BBC to it.
Maybe even a combination of HH's suggestion and the ChromeCast Audio brings you all you need.
Posted on: 02 December 2016 by Sloop John B
I have. 2 c raspberry pi streaming to a UniQute and superUniti so theses are definitely a good option.
a second hand Squeezebox Touch with the enhanced digital output is another option which would fit seamlessly with your current setup.
The third option is patience, the ND range will surely be superseded in 2017 with a range built on the new Linux platform. This will more than likely put the ND5xs within your range s/h.
There is the issue of course that your 72/140 will always sound better with vinyl as it was designed to do. You might be disappointed even with an NDX. It would perhaps be no harm to test this hypothesis.
SJB
Posted on: 02 December 2016 by Mr Underhill
If you look at Hans Beekhuysen's channel on YouTube he has reviewed a series of options, including: Raspberry Pi; Chromecast; SOtM sM-200; microRendu; Aries and others.
His top pick of these for SQ is the SOtM.
I am using the microRendu which, after some tuning, is giving me excellent SQ. Although HB now prefers the SOtM the support for the mR is excellent and so I am not suffering from disappointment, in fact I am hoping that Jesus and the team may find some ways to further tune it with ongoing software updates.
From a VFM perspective the Raspberry Pi is excellent, and he has also reviewed the HiFiBerry DAC.
M
Posted on: 02 December 2016 by Nich
Thanks for all the replies and suggestions. I'm researching these options at present. I wasn't aware of the Squeezebox Touch's ability to stream out 24/192 to an external DAC with the edo software add-on, though the internal DAC is still only able to handle 24/96. This is definitely an interesting option!
Both the SOtM and microRendu need more research - thanks for bringing them to my attention.
I had already ruled out the Aries Mini due to the need for an Apple phone/ipad to run the control app. And the small number of reviews I have found indicate the Bluesound Node 2 to have better sq, and be easier to use. Real world auditioning would of course be best, but unlikely!
I'd like to find out a lot more about the Pi options and the work involved - I'll keep researching. Any pointers as to good guides to look at??
Any suggestions as to DACs other than Chord MoJo?
[Yes Sloop, the 72/140 is best with analogue sources, and the LP12 does sound really good, but I'm not about to change that - even with good resale values the investment would be too much, and when I have opportunity vinyl replay is something I really enjoy for the process as well as the sound! I dream of an arm upgrade to Roksan Nima at some point though!]
Posted on: 02 December 2016 by nyron59
I bought a Bluesound Node 2 in August and I must say I have been delighted with it. I had demoed an NDX with Supernait2 and Vienna Acoustic speakers. That was truly excellent but as I was taking my first tentative step into streaming and I as I lacked a bit of confidence in the stability, I opted for the Bluesound. For the moment, I am very happy with it and I am much more confident with digital streaming.
i use the Bluesound with a Synology NAS. Everything has been stable and have only had one very minor problem following a firmware upgrade which was resolved very quickly.
Wouldn't hesitate to recommend. Sound quality is definitely decent. Am sure it will lead me to the NDX eventually!
Posted on: 02 December 2016 by Huge
Another vote for Chromecast Audio and Chord MoJo.
I use a CCA with a NAC-N 272 to use to find new music, connected using an optical digital cable (this is important, it's much better than the CCA's analogue output). So I took the opportunity to compare WAVE file direct via UPnP and via an Android tablet and the CCA: True the UPnP was better, but not by a massive margin.
Gapless playback with a CCA can be an issue, but with an Android tablet the trick is to cast the screen (using the Google Home app) to the CCA rather than casting from the audio app itself.
Posted on: 02 December 2016 by Michael Mccullough
System is 72/Hicap/140 (yes, old but all serviced!) playing through Rega Mk 1.5 Elas. For serious listening I have a modest LP12, Akito, DV20XH, Linn Lingo 1 (serviced) all rebuilt by Cymbiosis. But for day to day use (eg around family and grandkids!) I use a Squeezebox Classic (SB3) to stream FLAC from a Synology NAS (wired Ethernet), or to play internet radio (mostly BBC HLS streams!).
Ahhh ELA's love those. Ran them with a 72/hicap/140 myself a few years back.
This may sound crazy, but can you borrow/demo a NAC 172 xs?
Was comparing it to an ND5XS and was shocked with how good it was as a preamp with my Rega RP6. So good I bought it since vinyl will always be my number one source.
Posted on: 03 December 2016 by Claus-Thoegersen
I bought a Bluesound Node 1 last year at a good price, mainly to try it out, and to get access to Tidal. The analogue out is much better into my 252 than I have expected, however I use the digital out to my Ndac, but I tried analogue out and it was very good. I suppose the Node 2 is as good as the Node 1, maybe even better.
Claus
Posted on: 04 December 2016 by Nich
After much late night reading I'm now definitely leaning towards a purchase of the SOtM 200! It's price advantage over the microRendu is too good to ignore, and I kind of like the quirky box it comes in. I understand it is supplied with a basic power supply and I'll start with this. The sBooster supply seems to do good things for it, but it costs ++ and seems rather large? Maybe down the line it will be a possible upgrade.
Initially I was thinking of using my Meridian Explorer usb dac, with the intention of adding a Chord MoJo as soon as funds allow. I haven't found positive confirmation that this (the Meridian) is supported but I can't see why not.
The combination of SOtM and MoJo looks to me to be a real investment in streaming quality on a budget. I will report my findings, but it's likely to be a few weeks before I get the first of these two and a few months before I have both!!
I'm now enjoying controlling my SB classic with the Squeezer app on my android phone and this or similar seems a perfectly acceptable way of controlling my streamed music in the future.
Thanks to all who responded - you really opened my eyes to possibilities I wasn't aware of. This is a great forum for enthusiasts at all levels of the price spectrum!
Posted on: 04 December 2016 by Innocent Bystander
One possibility might me microRendu into a Chord Hugo DAC if that is affordable, otherwise their Mojo DAC. I donn't have experience of the mR (or Mojo) myself, but they reportedly give good sound quality: search on these forums and you will find some discussions.
If you didn't have a NAS I'd suggest Mac Mini + Audirvana, though an isolator would be needed with MOjo or Hugo to prevent RF/noise degrading the sound (I used Gustard U12 when I had a Hugo). The music is then stored on the same device as the renderer, avoiding the problems some people experience with streaming files across a network. This particular combination gave me better sound quality than ND5XS even with added XP5XS power supply, at about the same cost as ND5XS plus silent NAS.
Posted on: 05 December 2016 by DC71
A few months back I changed from UQ2 to a Bluesound Node2 playing digital into a NAD M52 DAC.
I've been very happy with the Node2 and feel that its digital outputs are excellent for the price. I even bought a iFi iPurifier SPDIF between the BSN and DAC just to see if it made any difference to the sound. I prefer both coax and optical connections bare without the iPurifier (which subjectively seems to remove some low end oomph and dynamics).
Without the iPurifier, I cannot distinguish in a blind test between the coax and optical links into the NAD. But I have kept the iPurifier in place on the coax link so I can occasionally do direct A-B comparison.
I have not tried the internal DAC in the Node2, I guess I should just to compare. But I would recommend the Node 2 as a good streaming option with tons of functionality, a decent android app and even the ability to try MQA format tracks when they become more widely available.
I picked up my Node2 on the used market at 30% off retail, and there seems to be a few around depending on where you live.
Posted on: 06 December 2016 by Brubacca
I would suggest trying the Explorer with the Sotm SMS-200 first. It should be a big step up from the Squeezebox.
My own experience with the mR was that it made every DAC I own sound better than with the Squeezebox touch. Or even using the Qute as just a digital front end to a DAC.
You may really enjoy the Explorer with the SMS-200.
The next jump in sound quality would be to go to the Chord Mojo or Schiit Audio Bifrost Multibit DAC. Up from there is the 2Qute / Schiit Gungnir Multibit. Price wise up from that is Hugo, Naim DAC V1 And Schiit Yggy.
Good luck
Posted on: 07 December 2016 by Nich
Well, I couldn't wait!! I ordered the SOtM sms 200 from the only uk source I could find (Item Audio) and it arrived by courier the next day! The shop was courteous and helpful on the phone, so recommended.
Setup was very straight forward with no issues at all. The browser interface was simple, and my existing LMS on Synology NAS was recognised straight away. Similarly the Meridian Explorer DAC, not just as a generic DAC but by name! Adding an extra folder of music into the LMS setup made all my 24/192 music available (previously kept separate so as not to confuse the SB classic with files it couldn't play).
First music I played was Adele 19 and I was stunned - really good. Still early days and I'm listening to lots of different stuff, but last night was difficult emotionally due to our elderly cat having a really bad fit! I'll make a full report on sound quality and impressions later - music for me is always coloured by one's emotional state at the time of listening and sq needs to be judged from the right perspective if that makes sense! Anyway, more later.
Oh, and one thing I didn't expect - the sms 200 came with a code for 60 days of Roon membership, and the option of upgrading within this period to a years membership at special rates.
Posted on: 08 December 2016 by Henkerino
Can recommend Auralic aries mini, went for it after countless years of PC tweaking. Works well with android and can be psu upgraded down the line, should one wish. Sounds great right from the box!
I use it with sbooster and chord usb-cable to a Dac-V1. Haven't tried it w/o above.
Its not naim but its a pretty affordable step on the way :-)
Posted on: 12 December 2016 by Iconoclast
If you look at Hans Beekhuysen's channel on YouTube he has reviewed a series of options, including: Raspberry Pi; Chromecast; SOtM sM-200; microRendu; Aries and others.
His top pick of these for SQ is the SOtM.
I am using the microRendu which, after some tuning, is giving me excellent SQ. Although HB now prefers the SOtM the support for the mR is excellent and so I am not suffering from disappointment, in fact I am hoping that Jesus and the team may find some ways to further tune it with ongoing software updates.
From a VFM perspective the Raspberry Pi is excellent, and he has also reviewed the HiFiBerry DAC.
M
I just ordered the sMS-200 as a replacement for my much loved Squeezebox Touch. I already own a Mojo but am still uncertain as to which PSU I'll be getting (It won't be the S Booster).
Will post comments when I receive it.
I received my sMS-200 over the weekend and even with the cheap wall wart it's by far the best source I've had since owning a high end vinyl rig. I'm looking for a decent PSU and then my front end should be set for a while. Well, unless(budget permitting) I get tired of recharging the Mojo, that is.
PC with dedicated NIC--->sMS-200--->Curious Cables Hugo Link---Chord Mojo
Posted on: 17 December 2016 by Nich
I'm very aware that my terms of reference are significantly more lowly than many in this forum, but in my system this little box (sms 200), even with it's basic included power supply and playing through my well regarded but inexpensive and now outdated Meridian Explorer DAC is a revaluation. The more I use it the better it gets - it's been a while since I've experienced 'burn-in', and I didn't really expect the see-saw changes in sq in the first days with such a simple box!! Detail resolution, emotion and musical flow are to me the earmarks. When I first start playing music I can hear my amps warming up and the sound filling out, it's uncanny! I really can't quite believe a renderer can make such an impact - perhaps the DAC is much better than I'd realized? Whatever, the end result is very pleasing!!
I'm looking into better power supplies, and still considering DAC upgrades, but wondering if I need to for the time being. I initially said the BBC HLS radio streams were important to me - well, as this works with the LMS/squeezelite architecture they work fine, but I've hardly played any radio as I'm so captivated listening my ripped/downloaded music anew, some albums over and over!!
The streaming has been mostly seamless apart from a short period when stuttering/drop outs were experienced on the first album every time I started listening. Updating firmware and redoing the setup has banished these gremlins even at 24/192. Not all albums sound good - interestingly some hires downloads in particular are not pleasing, others excellent! A classic example of a revealing source showing up poor recordings regardless of bit rate!
To sum up I'd say this is an exceptional product and incredible value for money. The only downside is it's reawakened my passion for hifi, and significantly boosted my appetite for new music!!
Posted on: 18 December 2016 by Innocent Bystander
Whilst Roon sounds as if it is a good library viewer, capable of bringing in artwork etc, however as it can't integrate with Audirvana I can't try it (Tidal I can use through Audiv, but has no interest for me). IIUC Roon has a rendering option to enable feed direct to a DAC, but it seems that it is consistently reported as sounding inferior to Audirvana.
Out of interest, can you browse by file location (folder/directory) if you choose instead of by the metadata tags? I.e. If you have all music by a particular artist in a folder can you navigate to thatbto then see all the album contents regardless of whether the music files have been correctly tagged, or even have no tags?
