SN2 as pre into NAP250DR

Ermmm... Should work.

Normally, when removing a link-plug an internal connection between pre and power is gone.

Then a 5 pin SNAIC takes the pre-signal out to, say, a HiCap. From a HiCap a 4 Pin SNAIC takes it to a NAP200 or a 4 pin to XLR to NAP250.

Finkfan posted:

So can you remove the link plug and just plug the 250 into the biamp out?? 

Why would you want to do that? You only remove the link plug when using a separate power supply. If you remove the link and just connect a 250 to the biamp socket the SU won't work. 

Finkfan posted:

So can you remove the link plug and just plug the 250 into the biamp out?? 

The link plug also supplies power to the preamp section,  so no it won't work. 

Hungryhalibut posted:

Finkfan posted:

So can you remove the link plug and just plug the 250 into the biamp out?? 

Why would you want to do that? You only remove the link plug when using a separate power supply. If you remove the link and just connect a 250 to the biamp socket the SU won't work. 

It's just my inquisitive mind HH. I want to know if you can and what it does, or does not do. Instead of asking why, I ask why not. 

Adam Zielinski posted:

Ermmm... Should work.

Normally, when removing a link-plug an internal connection between pre and power is gone.

Then a 5 pin SNAIC takes the pre-signal out to, say, a HiCap. From a HiCap a 4 Pin SNAIC takes it to a NAP200 or a 4 pin to XLR to NAP250.

I just wondered as the HC also sends power back to the pre amp, where does the pre get its power from originally? I guess it must be one of the pins on the 4pin din socket side. If that's the case then the link will have to stay in unless you're using an external power supply. And if that's the case is there any degrading of sound by plugging, let's say a 250 into the HC as the pre signal will be traveling alongside 24v for 1.25m? Can you, if using an PSU just plug the 250 into the bi amp socket and not return the signal to the SN via a snaic 4? 

Finkfan posted:

Adam Zielinski posted:

Ermmm... Should work.

Normally, when removing a link-plug an internal connection between pre and power is gone.

Then a 5 pin SNAIC takes the pre-signal out to, say, a HiCap. From a HiCap a 4 Pin SNAIC takes it to a NAP200 or a 4 pin to XLR to NAP250.

I just wondered as the HC also sends power back to the pre amp, where does the pre get its power from originally? I guess it must be one of the pins on the 4pin din socket side. If that's the case then the link will have to stay in unless you're using an external power supply. And if that's the case is there any degrading of sound by plugging, let's say a 250 into the HC as the pre signal will be traveling alongside 24v for 1.25m? Can you, if using an PSU just plug the 250 into the bi amp socket and not return the signal to the SN via a snaic 4? 

The link-plug indeed takes the signal from the pre to power. It also supplies the pre section with power.
So when a HiCap is used, it actually supplies the pre-section with a separate power feed.

Two examples of when HiCapDR comes in handy on a SuperNait2 and when link-plug is removed

1. Bare SN2 + HiCapDR. The signal is taken out of the pre via HiCap and is fed into the power section. This is needed to secure the continuity of earthing. At the same time HiCap supplies the pre-section with power. So essentially we have a pre-amp section of the SN2 being powered by an external PSU (HiCap here). The power-amp section then uses the internal trafo of the SuperNait2.
2. Signal is taken out of the pre-amp section via HiCap into an external power amp (say NAP 250DR). HiCap now powers the pre-amp section of the SuperNait2. This scenario essentially renders the internal power amp and the trafo superflous. That's why this scenario is deemed as a stepping stone on an upgrade path rather than a final solution.

As to your other quesitions - I don't have the aswers. Never tried it.

Naim power amps take their audio signal from the preamp power supply in order to ensure correct earthing, and it's the same if you use the Supernait as a preamp. That's just the way it is. 

Interestingly, or not, the 272 connects direct to the power amp, and that remains unchanged if an XPS is added to the 272. So, if you get a 250 and then want a preamp with a power supply, and are determined to connect the preamp and power amp together, get a 272. 

Thanks Adam. I'm currently on phase 1. Will make my way to phase 2 at some point (and try and answer my questions then). And then see what pre amps are around. 

Finkfan posted:

Thanks Adam. I'm currently on phase 1. Will make my way to phase 2 at some point (and try and answer my questions then). And then see what pre amps are around. 

I also use my SN2 with a HiCapDR - good combo. Just for the fun of it I once removed the HiCap to see what it really does. Ouch.... managed one song. Felt as if someone nicked my bass. So in the HiCap went again - happy.

I felt it added more energy, controlled the bass better and produced better vocals on the SN1. It's not coming off I know that! 

Finkfan posted:

I felt it added more energy, controlled the bass better and produced better vocals on the SN1. It's not coming off I know that! 

But does this have to do with the 250DR, or simply the separation between a pre-amp (in casu SN1/2) and a power-amp?

Would even adding a Nap 100 to the SN1/2 not already be an improvement?

I would not be surprised ...

Ardbeg10y posted:

Finkfan posted:

I felt it added more energy, controlled the bass better and produced better vocals on the SN1. It's not coming off I know that! 

But does this have to do with the 250DR, or simply the separation between a pre-amp (in casu SN1/2) and a power-amp?

Would even adding a Nap 100 to the SN1/2 not already be an improvement?

I would not be surprised ...

Hmmm... not sure. The power amp in SN2 is actually quite good. The only way to find out is of course to test.

I have only a SuperNait 1, but inspired by this thread I've done some tests. I could only do a test the other way around: use my SN1 as a PowerAmp and feed it by my AV2 (which is normally in my work/study room connected to a non-Naim amp). I used the Snaic 4 connected to the power-amp in on the SN so I bypassed the SN1's pre-amp section.

However the AV2 is supposed to have a lower rated pre-amp than the SN1, I did hear all kind of details which I did never hear in the music I normally listen. Now I understand phrases like 'more air' etc... I really loved it and urges me to get a dedicated dac.

Since the pre-amp section of the AV2 is generally lower rated than the pre-amp section of the SN1, I draw the conclusion that separation of duties does impact positively.

Regarding the SN (either 1 or 2), I think that the PowerAmp section is indeed the best part.

Can the OP update? Seems like an interesting idea.

I have used the SN2 as pre into the borrowed 250DR for about 2 weeks, here is quick summary of my personal findings. The rest of the system is Auralic Aries into Chord Hugo, A5 and PMC 20.23. 

Overall, I'd say adding the 250DR to the SN2 is a significant upgrade, the improvements were noticeable from the very beginning. Even my wife noticed the difference straight away and commented favourably. 

The most noticeable improvements were:

1) The bass - much deeper, more articulate and tighter grip. Very noticeable on for example when listening to Lorde's Pure Heroin album. 

2) Soundstage  - broader and seemingly more "real". Everything sounded sounded "bigger" and more convincing

3) Low sound volume listening - living with young kids who sleep early, I do a lot of low volume listening late at night. With the 250DR, at lower volumes, the music is much more rhythmic and enjoyable

Unfortunately, I had to return the borrowed 250Dr last week, without it the bare SN2 just sounded boring.

The good news is that I ordered a 250Dr the very next day, which arrived just before Christmas

Elevensheep posted:

I have used the SN2 as pre into the borrowed 250DR for about 2 weeks, here is quick summary of my personal findings. The rest of the system is Auralic Aries into Chord Hugo, A5 and PMC 20.23. 

Overall, I'd say adding the 250DR to the SN2 is a significant upgrade, the improvements were noticeable from the very beginning. Even my wife noticed the difference straight away and commented favourably. 

The most noticeable improvements were:

1) The bass - much deeper, more articulate and tighter grip. Very noticeable on for example when listening to Lorde's Pure Heroin album. 

2) Soundstage  - broader and seemingly more "real". Everything sounded sounded "bigger" and more convincing

3) Low sound volume listening - living with young kids who sleep early, I do a lot of low volume listening late at night. With the 250DR, at lower volumes, the music is much more rhythmic and enjoyable

Unfortunately, I had to return the borrowed 250Dr last week, without it the bare SN2 just sounded boring.

The good news is that I ordered a 250Dr the very next day, which arrived just before Christmas

Congrats what a treat for the holidays!

Agree with ARDBEG10Y. Imho best part of an SN is its power section. Say, (in my case)  282+PSU into SN2 has given so much better musical result than SN2 preamp part into 250DR. For me it means that a decent preamp is vital in any system and the power amp module of the SN2 is excellent.