Power supply philosophy?

feeling_zen posted:

Within reason. Naim might be in a position to go down down the path they see as most correct but only up to a point. Bearing in mind they are no longer indipendent and have investors to satisfy. Even without that, I don't beleive they would choose a path that would knowling cause their business to contract to the point of needing to downsize the company in order to do things "right". If such an option was presented a) do things right but in the current market that means shrinking the company or b) take the lesser evil of sacrificing the design philosophy but keep everyone employed and am very very sure they would choose option B.

Add their relationship with Natixis into the mix and it may get harder. Contraction becomes completely off the cards and they may be forced with option A) follow our design principles but only acheive 10% growth or b) sacrifice those a bit and acheive 20% growth in the year. The decision doesn't lie entirely with Naim.

Every company I've worked with has been strong armed at some stage by even the most benevolent seeming of investors into putting aside core values of the company. In one case when that was fought, the investors had the CEO replaced.

Feeling Zen and Tobyjug I did have the pleasure of discussing Naim market strategy and product direction earlier this week with Ryan Latham, Marketing and Communications Director at Naim. In summary he told the direction, strategy of the products and launch dates is down to Naim with no direction or 'interference' from Focal - infact it appears the legal entities are more separated than I expected. The Naim strategy is very much to grow its market by finding new customers and listeners rather relying on churning the established high end customer base. However this needs to be done so that it does not dilute the Naim 'DNA' which is represented by the 'Marque Separates' product group culminating with the Statement NAC and NAP

Therefore the idea has been to create different product groups and different entry points where it encourages customer to discover the brand and also encourage a subset of those to move and journey up the Naim ladder and discover more what Naim can be about if they wish. The philosophy of good after care service and product support and product repair and service maintains buoyant used prices and customer confidence - and this in it self can encourage the migration up the Naim product journey for customers - this product support and care is something Naim appear very proud of and is seen as a strong differentiator.

Last year they had good customer analytics evidencing  a subset of  Muso customers enquiring and buying into the higher end established product sets - and now the strategy of differing product groups and marques has been reflected more into the branding and marketing comms this year they are collating the stands again to see how that success has evolved with this new branding.

One thing that appears to be so is that sales are strong and buyout and they are growing and widening their customer base. The sales of NAC separates has been strong and the N272 and the pull through of NAPs has been several times more successful than Naim had anticipated this year and has also helped grow the customer base at a higher entry point into the product group journey. Interesting wondering around the build factory floor the two examples I saw being built  was a 252 and N272 - both with fastidious detail.  Additionally, perhaps reflecting this growing  interest across new customer groups, there is now far more interest from consumer tech and tech lifestyle magazines and media outlets that would have been unheard of a few years ago.

Another thing that is interesting is the development of the newer more entry level products has created capabilities and features that will trickle up into the separates over time. So there is an ecosystem, of trickle up and trickle down across the portfolio.

This is of course can create a confused portfolio and my understanding is that Naim recognise this - hence the drive of product group separation in the marketing and comms and possibly  rationalisation where there is not customer support for a particular product.

Simon

TOBYJUG posted:

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

I doubt it. I don't think you understand how Naim works.. You either enjoy how Naim design their audio equipment or you don't. Their DNA is sound quality.. They will do what they can to achieve that at various different compromise points... 

Some of the key Naim design principles are separation, providing low source impedances  and decoupling. Powersupllies are often sensitive to these items, which is why  you will see powersupllies with large transformers offering physical separation on many of the products  as options or pre-requisites, and physical vertical isolation and decoupling in the Statement products. 

Now i readily admit the powersupply can change the character of a component, and as an option, it ultimately is a matter of tastes and preferences to determine whether an optional powersupply is preferable or not for a component.

True.. but taking an analogy with space flight.  To get any where far rocket science is burdened by its own science ..rockets are just big load bearers of fuel,   The further it needs to get, the more it needs to store the fuel to get there...big large clumbersome and expensive means to get nowhere not really fast.   Unless some other means to an end is utilised more efficiently will space flight to far be a reality.

What ?

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

feeling_zen posted:

Within reason. Naim might be in a position to go down down the path they see as most correct but only up to a point. Bearing in mind they are no longer indipendent and have investors to satisfy. Even without that, I don't beleive they would choose a path that would knowling cause their business to contract to the point of needing to downsize the company in order to do things "right". If such an option was presented a) do things right but in the current market that means shrinking the company or b) take the lesser evil of sacrificing the design philosophy but keep everyone employed and am very very sure they would choose option B.

Add their relationship with Natixis into the mix and it may get harder. Contraction becomes completely off the cards and they may be forced with option A) follow our design principles but only acheive 10% growth or b) sacrifice those a bit and acheive 20% growth in the year. The decision doesn't lie entirely with Naim.

Every company I've worked with has been strong armed at some stage by even the most benevolent seeming of investors into putting aside core values of the company. In one case when that was fought, the investors had the CEO replaced.

Feeling Zen and Tobyjug I did have the pleasure of discussing Naim market strategy and direction earlier this week with Ryan Latham, Marketing and Communications Director at Naim. In summary he told the direction, strategy of the products and launch dates is down to Naim with no direction or 'interference' from Focal - infact it appears the legal entities are more separated than I expected. The Naim strategy is very much to grow its market by finding new customers and listeners rather relying on churning the established high end customer base. However this needs to be done so that it does not dilute the Naim 'DNA' which is represented by the 'Marque Separates' product group culminating with the Statement NAC and NAP

Therefore the idea has been to create different product groups and different entry points where it encourages customer to discover the brand and also encourage a subset of those to move and journey up the Naim ladder and discover more what Naim can be about if they wish. The philosophy of good after care service and product support and product repair and service maintains buoyant used prices and customer confidence - and this in it self can encourage the migration up the Naim product journey for customers - this product support and care is something Naim appear very proud of and is seen as a strong differentiator.

Last year they had good customer analytics evidencing  a subset of  Muso customers enquiring and buying into the higher end established product sets - and now the strategy of differing product groups and marques has been reflected more into the branding and marketing comms this year they are collating the stands again to see how that success has evolved with this new branding.

One thing that appears to be so is that sales are strong and buyout and they are growing and widening their customer base. The sales of NAC separates has been strong and the N272 and the pull through of NAPs has been several times more successful than Naim had anticipated this year and has also helped grow the customer base at a higher entry point into the product group journey. Interesting wondering around the build factory floor the two examples I saw being built  was a 252 and N272 - both with fastidious detail.  Additionally, perhaps reflecting this growing  interest across new customer groups, there is now far more interest from consumer tech and tech lifestyle magazines and media outlets that would have been unheard of a few years ago.

Another thing that is interesting is the development of the newer more entry level products has created capabilities and features that will trickle up into the separates over time. So there is an ecosystem, of trickle up and trickle down across the portfolio.

This is of course can create a confused portfolio and my understanding is that Naim recognise this - hence the drive of product group separation in the marketing and comms and possibly  rationalisation where there is not customer support for a particular product.

Simon

 

@simon, you should have opened with that .

For the record, I think it is ultimately Natixis (the bank) who would have any sway on Naim, not Focal. Paul S. Has been pretty clear previous on the forum that Natixis don't interfere. But in my experience, I've yet to see free money.

I don't see anything in your comment that actually contradicts what I said. Naim clearly do have their standards and their philosophy and a plan to grow the business, not shrink it. The point I was trying to make was very simply that if doggedly persuing external PSU (for example), regardless of Naim's firm belief in their critical importance, actually threatened to contract the business due to lack of market for them, they would fall by the wayside fairly quickly. I'm not saying they do.

I guess if the business planning starts to veer significantly off course then there might be pressure from external stake holders and investors - but if the business is performing successfully the last thing I am sure anyone will want to do is interfere. 

BTW I just don't recognise the concept of Naim 'doggedly' holding onto something that doesn't work commercially or does not sound worthwhile from a performance point of view. That just appears so not what they are about. 

One thing that did come out in talking to some of the product and design leads there is the recognition of a compromise of a transformer in the components itself on the horizontal products (non Statement). To this end they have special specs to with their transformer manufacturers to shape the  EM emissions - and that delicate electronics are as far as the box will allow away from the transformer. However its a pragmatic compromise that is alleviated to a huge extent with PSU separation. 

And you can hear this so clearly... you put a 252 closely above or next to a large transformer it sounds good - but you give separation and increase the distance and the music just sounds more natural and flows - its beautiful. I have my 252 on top of a stack with 150% spaced shelf below it and nothing either side

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

I guess if the business planning starts to veer significantly off course then there might be pressure from external stake holders and investors - but if the business is performing successfully the last thing I am sure anyone will want to do is interfere. 

You would certainly hope.

Unfortunately I have, in the past, worked for a two different companies where growth was good (well over 20%/anum) and the stakeholders stepped in in one form or another to reshape the company because they envisioned something even more aggressive. And I know Natixis. They are not a charity, that's for sure.

Adam Zielinski posted:

Huge posted:

Edit:  OK, well the Polish equivalent thereof (and I'm NOT going to try Google translate! )

I once did it from Polish to English and back to Polish - shocking what came out... 

But still my all time favourite is a use of coma in the English language. As in....

 

Girlfriend in a coma.