Which way to go when the cash rolls in? 272 or HDX/NDX.

NDX and SN2 it is then? This is where a good dealer is worth their weight in gold

I suggest that you spend some time at your dealer going through the various options a 272,XPS,250dr is a cracking system if you take the 282,NDX route it will cost a lot more to get the best out of it if you factor in the various options with power supplies etc so a good listen is a must your dealer should guide you through the options just take your time.

ray sheldon posted:

Evening Naim followers,

.....

Other reasons for not really wanting to go with 272/XPS/250..... I know I will probably end up swapping 272 for a 282+NDX+250....and the upgrade bug will stay with me till the day I die. Seriously though, I could have stopped with SN2. I think it's enough of an animal to rock the house. Same power output as a 250 anyway I think. 

Anyone any experience with above set-ups or considered/done the same.  +/- thoughts?

Thanks,

Ray.

 

 

I would seriously doubt that you'd want to dich the 272, Ray, unless it was for a 252 or 552. The 272 is a seriously musical piece of kit, and partnered with a 250 would be pretty awesome  (don't you just hate that word).   My 272 was partnered with a 500 while my 552 was away on holiday for its DR and the 272 proved itself to be extremely accomplished... way beyond an HDX, and barking at the heels of a 552, and that was without the added XPS benefit.   

This probably doesn't help, but do please open up your mind to the 272 as a serious long term contender. 

RJSTAINES,

There are a lot of 272/250 fans out there,  no doubt about that!

I suspect the 250 will be great at power, depth and loud volumes with suitably equipped speakers.  Just would like a little more in the midrange from the 272, perhaps the XPS brings that to the party. There is one thing I don't miss with current v old system....brightness.  

The 272 is definitely a bit smoother sounding.

Ray.

Ray - only a properly constructed dem is going to sort this for you.  In my opinion the NDX/SN2 is a more involving solution than a 272/250 but that isn't everyone's opinion.   

More than one way to skin a cat!

Good luck. 

First of all you don't need a UnitiServe or Core to feed your NDX. You already have a NAS, so just install a decent UPnP software on it and you are good to go.

As to other combinations you mention - they will all sound great.

Some may consider NDX + 282 to be somewhat superior to N272. That all really depends as to how each combo works in your particular room wiht your speakers. I would not want to pre-judge this one.
One point worth remembering: NDX being a stand-alone player has a digital output and can be upgraded with an off-board DAC which then feeds your pre-amp. If that is important for you - only you can judge that Ray (outboard DAC cannot be used with N272 if it runs as both a streamer and a pre-amp).

I currently run NDX + nDAC + PSU + SN2 + HiCap.... a lot of boxes.

If I were doing it again I woud just go for N272 + PSU + NAP250.

272/555PS/300DR make it future proof for the 372! 

Won't be much different than NDX/PS/282/PS price wise

I would go back to the HDX/SN2 set up if that's the one that hit the spot for you previously. Deffo worth a dem and then if it isn't as good as you remembered then it's probably worth pursuing the 272 based alternatives. 

Every time I mention the 272 I get slagged off by someone saying that I'm promoting what I own, so I have a dilemma. I have a 272, XPS and 250 DR and it's the best thing I've had since the CDS3, 552 and 300 back in the day. I've also listened to a very nice system with NDX, 282 and 250DR and wouldn't say it was any better. Owning a 272 I feel no need to even consider a NDX and 282, and owning a good nas I wouldn't even think about a Core, Melco or whatever. But all these things are good and one should just get whatever one wants. Bart owns a NDS/555 and a Supernait and is very happy with it. There is no 'best'. Perhaps it's best not to ask, and just get what you fancy the look of. It's what I did. If you don't think you'll be happy with a 272 going forward, don't have a 272 going forward. You've got to like what you own; if you don't you'll never be happy with it, no matter how many people tell you that it's the right thing. 

I wouldn't even consider an HDX, which is a dead end IMHO. After that it's about money and what you prefer - the 272 is certainly very good, and would be in my Christmas list if the Uniti platform hadn't been released. Maybe Christmas next year. 

If you're buying new then demos will anwer all your questions. As you already have the 272 then a thorough investigation of the power supply and amp options seems in order. Maybe check the result against the HDX/supernait 2 or maybe NDX if you can't get hold of an H. Personally I found the NDX rather matter of fact until you add a ps but it wasn't a seriuos demo If they're out by the time you demo, try a uniti nova as a reference point of what a single box can do. I was at Naim on Tuesday with a few others and briefly heard the whole range but not compared to any separates, it seemed the designer hadn't done this comparison either when I asked. 

I use my HDX as a streamer, so I'm not sure why you say it isn't one?

However, much as I love my HDX, if you've ripped all of your CD's, then there's possibly not much need for the HDX and other options including the NDX are available.

I hear good reports on the 272 which coupled with a Suitable amp and your old PMC's should sound superb. 

Mind you, I'm sitting here, with my second system, listening to a SuperUniti fed with my QNAP NAS running Assett server and it's wonderful through my Neat Elite SX speakers. No upgrade bug either!

I should say "I believe I use my HDX as a streamer"  - perhaps I don't understand exactly what a streamer is...

My 2 cents: I used to own a HDX which was actually my 'fist step' into the streaming world. After it broke down and needed repair twice (first, the CD drawer needed replacement and a couple of years later one of the hard drives crashed) I decided that it was time to part with it. In the end HDD's are prone to failure and I did not want to get the unit back to Salisbury for repair (I don't live in the UK). Also the fact that it seemed that Naim is not going to put any further effort in the development of the HDX e.g. Tidal streaming services played a role in my decision.

I used the HDX 'as a streamer' combined with a SuperNait (1) and was always very happy with the result, however, the combo of NAC-N 272 and NAP 200 which do replace the HDX/SN is really a lot better!

Everybody,

Thanks for your input, some pretty useful feedback there.

I think I've decided what I'm going to do based on the fact that I'm also moving home, i.e. too many changes happening all at once is perhaps careless....new room to get used to, new kit etc etc....

So, for starters I'll swap out the 200 for a 250dr (based on the massive reputation the 250 has).  That will get a powerline, so too will the 272.

Once used to that, will try 1 or 2 PSU on the 272(xp5xs/XPS and so on). ....then if all that is good, might change the speakers that will make the most of that combo and like being pushed hard and loud(making the most of detached home),...........but speaker recommendations can wait for a future post!

Have a nice w/end ;-)

Ray.

Hungryhalibut posted:

Every time I mention the 272 I get slagged off by someone saying that I'm promoting what I own, so I have a dilemma. I have a 272, XPS and 250 DR and it's the best thing I've had since the CDS3, 552 and 300 back in the day. I've also listened to a very nice system with NDX, 282 and 250DR and wouldn't say it was any better. Owning a 272 I feel no need to even consider a NDX and 282, and owning a good nas I wouldn't even think about a Core, Melco or whatever. But all these things are good and one should just get whatever one wants. Bart owns a NDS/555 and a Supernait and is very happy with it. There is no 'best'. Perhaps it's best not to ask, and just get what you fancy the look of. It's what I did. If you don't think you'll be happy with a 272 going forward, don't have a 272 going forward. You've got to like what you own; if you don't you'll never be happy with it, no matter how many people tell you that it's the right thing. 

No harm in that - there's nothing like experience to drive a recommendation . Much better than reading reviews and regurgitating editorial!

ray sheldon posted:

Everybody,

Thanks for your input, some pretty useful feedback there.

I think I've decided what I'm going to do based on the fact that I'm also moving home, i.e. too many changes happening all at once is perhaps careless....new room to get used to, new kit etc etc....

So, for starters I'll swap out the 200 for a 250dr (based on the massive reputation the 250 has).  That will get a powerline, so too will the 272.

Once used to that, will try 1 or 2 PSU on the 272(xp5xs/XPS and so on). ....then if all that is good, might change the speakers that will make the most of that combo and like being pushed hard and loud(making the most of detached home),...........but speaker recommendations can wait for a future post!

Have a nice w/end ;-)

Ray.

 

That sounds very sensible. Once you have the 250 and XPS or whatever, you can always do the test against the NDX and 282 and realise you don't need to spend any more. 

Hi try buying a second hand 555ps once you have the 250dr .... I did and it was a massive improvement... The 272/555ps is hugely capable .... it does have its limits.... I found 250dr was holding it back!! it's that good.

If it is possible to wait or get a small system, it is obvious that there will be a 372 or something else 72 build on the new streaming hardware  in a year or 2.

Claus

Claus-Thoegersen posted:

If it is possible to wait or get a small system, it is obvious that there will be a 372 or something else 72 build on the new streaming hardware  in a year or 2.

Claus

Are you sure? I suspect we might see the NDX2 and NDS2 before then.... I think you might find the 272 is pretty close to what Naim can realistically achieve with a hybrid streamer preamp right now in a single box with all the challenges that miniaturisation, noise  and EM interference  bring to quality audio electronics in a compact environment. Apparently the current 172 and 272 are considered great stepping stones onto seperates for those want more of the Naim SQ DNA and great journey end points for those that don't.

I'm inclined to agree with Simon on this. Of course, we don't know for sure what Naim will do, but I suspect a higher spec streaming preamp wouldn't fit into one box, and would therefore be a bit pointless. 

The new streaming platform in the soon to be released Unitis will no doubt find its way into all the Classic streamers in time, though.

I think there is a small possibility of a NAC-S 572 which has no internal power supply and requires a 555PS to power it.

I also don't know why the assumption is made that the "New Streaming Platform" for the Uniti range will definitely make it's way into the Classic range.  The products are aimed at different markets, and I don't see a single one size fits all (from Uniti Atom to NDS2) streaming solution being viable.

Naim have already significantly changed the streaming circuit when designing the 272.  It uses a TI PCM1792A DAC (a current output device) rather than the TI PCM1791A DAC (a voltage output device) used in previous streamers.

I suspect the new streaming platform for the Uniti range is a consolidated (and possibly simplified) version of this new circuit but with more flash memory capacity and very likely a different signal processor chip, intended for use in the Uniti range alone.  Can any one who's actually had a chance to ask Naim shed any light on this?

I'm sure Naim have said somewhere that the new platform will be used in future classic streaming products. It's much more powerful than the existing platform and can do a lot more things, such as Roon and Google cast, so it's rather the opposite of simplified. 

That could be done on the current platform, it would only require an updated SHARC processor and more flash RAM; not a new platform.  This could then make use of the new software.

It could be that they are specifically talking about a new front end communications and connectivity processor that connects to more services: I.e a subsystem that handles external communication and then feeds the streamer processor which coverts the audio data-stream blocks to a format that can be loaded onto a DAC (hence relieving the latter of the control of communications duties).  This new comms processor could even be FPGA.  This could be done leaving the audio data-stream processing step to still be handled in the existing SHARC processor, or an updated one (but still immediately preceding the DAC).  Given the investment that Naim have made in stream processing and DACs, to me this approach makes more sense than a complete new streaming platform and throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

If they had changed the DAC technology (including the SHARC audio data processor) to a completely new principle at the same time, then I think we'd have heard more about that.  My guess (and it's only a guess) is that there's a new comms / connectivity module - and that could certainly make it's way into the Classic line streamers; but that there's also a new unified stream processor / DAC for the new Uniti products (simpler than the current ND5, NDX, SU, 272 and NDS implementations) and that bit will remain solely with the Uniti products.