Which way to go when the cash rolls in? 272 or HDX/NDX.

Sorry but what is comms/connectivity Module? 

Hungryhalibut posted:

I'm sure Naim have said somewhere that the new platform will be used in future classic streaming products. It's much more powerful than the existing platform and can do a lot more things, such as Roon and Google cast, so it's rather the opposite of simplified. 

Indeed Nigel, a recent visit to the factory at Naim certainly didn't rule that out. The Google Cast  interface is seen as a big plus on the new uniti products that will almost certainly trickle up to new version streaming separates as apparently it opens up the streamers to regional services without the need of re programming the streamer firmware... and indeed Naim have developed their own Linux distribution to support forthcoming and future platforms to provide far more flexible capabilities and a move away to some extent  from the current modular hardware/firmware approach. Additionally the current Tidal and Spotify heavy integrations are not that suited for the fast growing eastern markets.

Simon

Emre posted:

Sorry but what is comms/connectivity Module? 

A comms/connectivity module is the part of the system that connects to external services and maintains the state data of that connection.  It overlies the network interfaces (Ethernet and Bluetooth).

OK, I'm going to provide a simplified non-technical and generalised view here rather than go into details of how the the OSI 7-layer networking model applies to streaming devices.  This is a typical type of organisation; the precise details can vary somewhat, neither is it complete or exhaustive in it's description, although the general architecture is usually rather like this...

The network interfaces deal with low level communications and the physical transport.
1)  They negotiate the physical communications protocols between devices on the network, and maintain the state of any physical connection (if required).
2)  They ensure that the outgoing data sent by the device are divided up into appropriate sized blocks (with appropriate headers), put on the network correctly and resent when requested by the receiver.
3)  They ensure that the incoming data packets are checked for correctness, put into low level buffer memory, any bad blocks are requested for resend and finally the data blocks are put into the right sequence and transferred to the next buffer layer up the chain.
This layer has no knowledge of what these data blocks mean.

The comms/connectivity module uses the network interfaces to request a high level connection from an outside service (DLNA, Spotify Connect, Tidal etc), and maintains the state of that connection (connecting, negotiating communication protocols, data sets / data streams to be transferred etc.).  This understands the connection to the service and it understands that a data stream is a data stream, but it doesn't need to know how the internal data are contained in a data stream.  When a data stream is being received this layer knows to write the data from the network interface to the circular buffer used for the stream data so as to pass it to the stream processor.

The stream processor uses the data identifier header in the first part of a data stream to understand what the data contained in the stream are (LPCM, MPEG 1 etc,) how the data words are organised and how to process the stream (e.g. any decompression required such as for FLAC, Vorbis or MP3).  From that point on, the stream processor looks at the circular data stream buffer (the one filled by the comms/connectivity module from the network data blocks after they've been put into the right order by the the network interface), extracts the individual data words (decompressing if necessary), * applies any real time oversampling and digital filtration, then sequentially loads the processed data samples into the DAC.

An analogue signal then comes out...

* insert conversion to S/Pdif and back to samples here, if using a DAC remote from the streamer.

Huge very kind of you taking the time and effort to explain

Thank you

Off to the dealer tomorrow to sample 250 and XPS to add to my 272.  Will also compare that to NDX, SN+HC.

I have just realised the potential of the 272 by chance.......

I suggested to the dealer about taking my NAS along, he suggested to put some tunes on a memory stick instead....good idea it seems!!!  Now I thought music stored on a NAS(or other) would or should sound all the same and it doesn't. After I pulled some tunes from the NAS via laptop(wired) to the USB stick, I thought I would insert the USB into the 272.....WOW, it sounds like a window has been opened. Never since I had to depart with my HDX have I been happy with the sound, unitilite, superuniti and later a 200.  I thought I really missed the HDX and only another or a NDX would put a smile on my face again.

Much to my surprise the music from the USB is miles better than the same tunes via NAS. The difference is bigger than MP3 v WAV.  Lots of detail.  Is the quality of your tunes really dependable on the quality of a NAS or is something else going on here?

ray sheldon posted:

Much to my surprise the music from the USB is miles better than the same tunes via NAS. The difference is bigger than MP3 v WAV.  Lots of detail.  Is the quality of your tunes really dependable on the quality of a NAS or is something else going on here?

Ray - it takes some effort to optimise local-area network for NAS playback. It's easy to set this up, but there are numerous external factors influencing the playback quality - quality of a power supply to the NAS, network switch, LAN cables used, earthing / screening....

USB playback is in a way a form of reference. I took me some months to tune my LAN for the sound quality to be similar to memory stick playback.

I've tried music from a USB stick and it sounds no better than that from my nas. 

Adam Zielinski posted:

...
USB playback is in a way a form of reference. I took me some months to tune my LAN for the sound quality to be similar to memory stick playback.

Hungryhalibut posted:

I've tried music from a USB stick and it sounds no better than that from my nas. 

Likewise, that's what you get when you have the network right.

Adam, 

Thanks but I'm not sure where I would start with all that....and not even that sure if I want to. Been a hifi enthusiast for many years have have a pretty good knowledge. When it comes to I.T stuff, I'm pretty useless. Of course, being in my 40's means that I grew up with blackboards, chalk and a commodore 64! 

I wonder will I have the same problem with the Uniti Core(planned purchase)and, if so, would I better just using the digital out into the 272 for playback purposes, of course leaving it still connected to the network for cd ripping or streaming from other devices. 

I've heard the former unitiserve was always better used over network rather than dig out. I would imagine Naim have addressed this with the new product?

I think the first thing you should do is get to the bottom of the problem you have with sound quality over UPnP. If you can establish where the problem lies, you will probably be able to solve it and stick with your existing NAS, allowing you to concentrate your resources on upgrading your main system. Despite your dealer recommending that you take a memory stick for listening, he may have the IT skills to sort out your NAS/network issue. Failing that, Naim support are also very good at that, so you're not on your own.

ray sheldon posted:

Adam, 

Thanks but I'm not sure where I would start with all that....and not even that sure if I want to. Been a hifi enthusiast for many years have have a pretty good knowledge. When it comes to I.T stuff, I'm pretty useless. Of course, being in my 40's means that I grew up with blackboards, chalk and a commodore 64! 

I wonder will I have the same problem with the Uniti Core(planned purchase)and, if so, would I better just using the digital out into the 272 for playback purposes, of course leaving it still connected to the network for cd ripping or streaming from other devices. 

I've heard the former unitiserve was always better used over network rather than dig out. I would imagine Naim have addressed this with the new product?

Ray, in much the same boat as yourself but a lot older, as you are off to your dealer for a demo he should be able to advise and help in your network and NAS setup.

When I upgraded my Olive system last year my dealer was very helpful in advising the best route plus you can get some much help and advice from the forum.

During the installation of my new system the dealer set my NAS up using dbpoweramp as the ripping software etc and made sure I understood the basic workings etc before he left.

Very worthwhile getting this right from the onset and as others have said no difference in listening from a USB or NAS if the network is all OK.

Enjoy your demo.

ray sheldon posted:

Adam, 

Thanks but I'm not sure where I would start with all that....and not even that sure if I want to. Been a hifi enthusiast for many years have have a pretty good knowledge. When it comes to I.T stuff, I'm pretty useless. Of course, being in my 40's means that I grew up with blackboards, chalk and a commodore 64! 

I wonder will I have the same problem with the Uniti Core(planned purchase)and, if so, would I better just using the digital out into the 272 for playback purposes, of course leaving it still connected to the network for cd ripping or streaming from other devices. 

I've heard the former unitiserve was always better used over network rather than dig out. I would imagine Naim have addressed this with the new product?

Ray - I will be 45 in March - my first computer was a ZX Spectrum + (so 48 kb of memory, rather than 32). I tought myself how to setup a network - and I'm not an engineer. 4 years ago I didn't know what UPnP or NAS stands for....   So I think you'll be OK

Just start reading up on the subject, follow the threads on this forum. Post and we will help if you get stack. You can always email me (address is in my profile) - happy to help.

Adam

Thanks everybody, I will have a look into this when I have time.  Need to start packing, we complete on Friday ;-)

Adam, cheers mate, will consider that if/when......

I'd like to add my support for the 272. 

I've paired it with a NAP300, initially with its internal power supply but both with power lines, and sitting on a fraim.

I added a XPS-DR and it took a good leap forward. The itch set in so I upgraded to a 555-DR (which took some time to fully appreciate) and now I'm looking to change the NAP300 for a DR version.

The 272 has not been embarrassed by any of this. It is very, very good.

Roll on the 372 or 572

If you're moving to a new house, you'll be using a new network in a different environment, which might solve your UPnP sound quality problem. If you take your NAS to your dealer and listen to it there, you'll be able to tell if the problem lies there, so you should be well on the way to pinpointing the issue. 

I also use a 272 (+ non-Naim power supply) with a DR'ed 300, driving Spendor SP2s, and in my opinion it's an excellent combination.

In terms of getting the network working well, it's not all that difficult:
Put a simple network switch (e.g a Netgear GS105) between the NAS and the 272 and take a cable from this to your broadband router.
On all Ethernet cables and the SMPS for the switch, fit clip on ferrites (I found that Würth Elektronik 74271112 work best in my house, available form CPC Farnell)
Use unscreened cables for all Ethernet connections EXCEPT the streamer (I use Cat6 UTP)
Use a screened Ethernet cable from the switch to the streamer (I use a Chord C-Stream)

This sorts out the hardware.

Well, had my demo yesterday and found the SN as great as I remembered.

On top of that, the NDX was finer sounding than the 272, and so it should be given the price of both and the NDX being a stand alone unit v a pre and streamer combined.

To try and explain in a few words...272/250, more aggressive top end sounded a too much in your face.  The 250 was good though and had I the funds would consider 282 etc.

SN and NDX, a good pairing. Smoother than the above, everything sounded more natural and lesse digital sounding.  SN has bags of power bottom end too.

Working on the old belief of source 1st, I think the 272/250 is miss matched....all though I didn't bother adding the XPS to either set up.

Speakers for the demo were PMC twenty 5.23.  I went for a pair of those too, with super lumina 5pin to 5pin and 2 powerlines.

Oh and stuck in an Oppo 203 for later when I get round to 4k TV.

Looking forward to getting it all home. 

Does that mean you are swapping the 272/200 for NDX/SN2?

Yep. That pairing soon up for sale, my PMC gb1i too. That will make a decent contribution to the new outlay.

Ray,

Your findings accord with mine when I heard a similar demo a while ago.  But not everyone would agree with us.

Regards,

Lindsay

The main thing this story demonstrates (to me anyway) is that we often hear what we want to hear. The OP's original post says that he didn't think he'd be happy with the 272 system, so it's no surprise that the other was preferred. In many ways the demo was superfluous. 

You've been round the houses a bit, Ray, since you had your 202/ 200 but you seem to be settling :-)

Chris

I think sometimes when a new product emerges there is a momentum of euphoria - wow this is good.  The 272 and dare I say Chord Hugo both fell into that category.   Now I don't know the Hugo at all but the 272 I do and it ticks so many boxes - great open sound, excellent functionality, reduces box count etc - but for some in the cold light of day it's not the ultimate solution.  Similarly there are some who eulogize - guilty as charged in respect of the 282 - about a particular component and again of course it's not the ultimate solution.

Regards,

Lindsay

Hugo was not a moment of euphoria Lindsay, it was and still is a game changer in terms of enjoying music from a digital source.

For watching the news, enjoying movies or music, I use a Chord DAC daily.

Interesting about NDX/SN2 compared to 272/250DR, source first still wins, even with the mighty 250 DR power amp.

it kind of makes sense as 272 costs less than NDX.

After many years of experiments, I do agree with source first....

..... I know I will probably end up swapping 272 for a 282+NDX+250....and the upgrade bug will stay with me till the day I die. Seriously though, I could have stopped with SN2. I think it's enough of an animal to rock the house. Same power output as a 250 anyway I think. 

Anyone any experience with above set-ups or considered/done the same.  +/- thoughts?

Thanks,

Ray.

 

 

I have 282/HCDR/250DR, not thinking to spend any further cash for a 252 or a 552 at the moment. I spent lots of cash on Hifi anyway last 2 years, maybe that is the reason? No not really, the system plays very engaging music for me at the moment, that is the reason.

it depends on your source, once you got a good enough source, musical enjoyment starts and the upgrade bug goes away...

Something that just isn't mentioned enough on this forum.