Which way to go when the cash rolls in? 272 or HDX/NDX.
Posted by: ray sheldon on 08 December 2016
Evening Naim followers,
I have been a member for a number of years and have owned lots of different boxes in that time. Those that have commented on my various posts in the past will remember me having to sell my beloved hifi for a much needed deposit on a property purchase that was kind of unexpected, and absolutely necessary given the circumstances. That hifi was HDX, SN2+HCdr, PMC gb1i and 3xPL and a HiLine(everything was sold except speakers, you don't get much for them).
Since that time I have gradually climbed the Naim ladder where/when funds allowed....unitilite,superuniti, then SU+Nap200 and currently 272+200(non dr). Music backed onto NAS(former HDX backup).
Now, the sale of said hifi has paid off and I have sold my property with a very good return and in a position(exchange pending) to throw some money back into my hifi(I have budgeted approx 7k).
Before I start, I will say that nothing I've heard since has satisfied me as much as HDX+SN did. Note that SN2 replaced 202/200/HCdr(I wanted to put an end to the upgrade bug and was delighted with SN2, it did everything well with all genres).
I guess the only reason I wont go back to HDX is simply because it is not a streamer, otherwise love it!
Many of you at this point will be thinking what I have been thinking....ditch 200, buy a 250dr, add XPSdr to 272, happy days!
But.....I'm not convinced enough that 272(even with an XPS)will match or beat a HDX at playing music from a HDD.....and I don't want to spend £000's swapping and changing for the next year or so.
So, here are the things to consider.....
Is an NDX + new uniticore(or unitiserve for purpose of argument) a better 2 box combo than a stand alone HDX in terms of sound quality(this way I get a streamer and a CD ripper). I still buy cd's and own approx 700, so this is important to me, and if so, why?
Is an NDX better at playing music from NAS(or uniticore) than a 272? ....I guess so given the pricing of both? (even if both are with/without XPS).
If I did go 272/XPS/250, are the speakers really up for the challenge. I know they are good speakers and have enjoyed them on the end of many a Naim set-up. Although, my house sale and purchase see's me going from an apartment with lots of adjoining neighbours to a detached house where I can really stretch the legs on whatever system I go with.....can't wait !!!!!
Other reasons for not really wanting to go with 272/XPS/250..... I know I will probably end up swapping 272 for a 282+NDX+250....and the upgrade bug will stay with me till the day I die. Seriously though, I could have stopped with SN2. I think it's enough of an animal to rock the house. Same power output as a 250 anyway I think.
Anyone any experience with above set-ups or considered/done the same. +/- thoughts?
Thanks,
Ray.
Huge posted:Elevensheep posted:Huge posted:If one were solely concerned with PRaT, then one could easily conclude that the ND5 XS / 202 / 200 could be better than the 272 / 200, when used with some types of speakers.
However in my real experience, for all it's strengths in PRaT, I don't believe the ND5 has anywhere near as well balanced a performance as the 272, as it's intended for use with less refined pre and power amps; and this will be carried through into the system. Furthermore adding a power supply to a 272 makes for a much greater improvement in performance than adding a power supply to an ND5 XS.
ND5XS + 202 actually costs considerably more than the 272 though? Unless Naim intends to cannibalize its own product hierarchy and sales, in theory the former should be sonically better.
Having extensively demoed various options involving 272 / NDX / ND5XS with various Naim pre/power combinations, and having owned the SN2 for almost 3 years, personally I'd agree with the observation that ND5XS + 202 is at least comparable to the 272. And like the OP, I also preferred the NDX / SN2 combination to the 272 / 250DR.
Are you sure that Naim fix the initial price point using a strict hierarchical pricing model rather than using an ROI based model? If they use an ROI model then this argument doesn't hold.
Also as others have said, adding a power supply to the 272 gives additional benefits above and beyond those obtainable with an NDX, as the power supply also improves the pre-amp. To get the same benefits as a 272 / XPSDR, for an NDX / 202 you'd need NDX + XPSDR / 202 + HiCap DR.
As I pointed out, there are differences in sonic presentation to take into account, as these will affect any one person's judgement based on their sonic preferences. In this (and many other cases) theory doesn't hold water where individual people are concerned - people need to make up their own mind by listening (i.e. as you and I have done, even though we reached opposite conclusions!).
I thought this is just common sense - a manufacturer that sells products based on consumer's willingness to pay for superior sound quality that the more you pay the better the sound quality you get. If pricing is indeed based on ROI, surely some of the older Naim products such as 282 / 202 etc should be much cheaper now as initial investment would have been mostly depreciated, which clearly is not the case. And taking a step back, I actually can't think of a large manufacturer that adopts a ROI pricing model.
ND5XS + XPSDR / 202 + Hi Cap DR is roughly the same price as 272 + XPSDR, and given to my ears, the bare ND5XS / 202 sounds better than 272 alone, I'd imagine the power supply added combination would have the same outcome. Of course, the later has a box count advantage.
Agreed that people subjectively hear / appreciate the same sound differently, hence you and I arriving at different conclusions is entirely possible and logical 