LM317s and N-Sats

This is very interesting for me: My HCDR powers the Superline, the HC2 powers the 282. 

Until now I thought it would be a good idea to have the HC2 DR'd in future - but maybe I should just leave it as is. 

Maybe a naive question: what is "LM317"?

Back to the old system synergy again Max. Better components may not a better system make 

p. posted:

Maybe a naive question: what is "LM317"?

It's the voltage regulator used in pre-DR Naim power supplies. 

p. posted:

Maybe a naive question: what is "LM317"?

As Tony says, it's this:

(now I am not promoting a campaign against Naim DRs: far from me, there have been good reasons behind the project, and the forum discussed the DR at length when it was introduced. But there must have been a reason if Naim has used the LM317K for 40 years or so).

P., I normally hate options and comparisons, but why not try swapping them, just to be sure that a) someone else hears significant differences and, b) you like the present allocations?

Best

M

james n posted:

Back to the old system synergy again Max. Better components may not a better system make 

True – and it also brings us back to some of past, infinite discussions on what better means...

Max,

Are you sure you are not fooled by recordings? Did you exactly the same recording to compare DR vs non_DR? I was recently listening to Saint Saens Organsymphony which has a solid bass. A friend of mine brought a CD where the bass was some vague noise when I used my B&W CM1's. Then, I connected my 30yr old floorstanding speakers and suddenly there was a beautiful neutral bass-line.

So, friend gone, and I started to check. Used another recording on my CM1 setup. There was a shaking bass.

My conclusion was that the recording engineers do something which causes certain recordings to boost frequencies and others don't. The recording my friend brought was more or less linear and worked out well on full range speakers, whilst the recording I have from our Berliner friends seems to be optimized for more generic systems where the lower frequencies are less relevant.

I could imagine a solid bass is also possible on your beloveth n-Sats given a certain recording and not dependent on DR vs non-DR.

I could be completely wrong, just my observation being only 1.5 years on my hifi-way ...

ARDBEG10Y (sorry but I haven't a better name to address to),

I couldn't agree more on the importance of the recording used: I can say, without hesitation, that a great recording on a modest system sounds better than a modest recording on a great system. I have experience this a number of times, and it has always been the cause of frustration because much as we spend on our gear, the final result is always in the hands of a recording engineer and/or producer.

That said, as I have written I do not dedicate any of my time anymore to comparisons or tests, it indeed is a lifer's pastime; I just have played a few CDs, and what I wrote about in my first post was basically the result of an impression, of a subjective reaction. Although the bass was actually more underlined and present. To speak about deep bass with the N-Sats would be optimistic (and I am not an optimist).

As I also wrote, my last year has been dominated by DR PSUs: an XPS, 2 HICaps, the preamp feed of a 200DR; that 'sound' (I strongly believe in a 'voice' of power supplies, as I would in the taste of different water used in cooking; and of course at Naim they too believe in this, otherwise they wouldn't have singularly tested and hand selected regulators for years) is in my ears and in my mind (to paraphrase Paul McC.), so I think that when something struck me a couple of days ago, when I re-installed everything after a two-weeks hiatus with the borrowed HC2, and I thought the sound I was used to was more 'fresh', less perfect perhaps but with a little more 'drive' and 'body', I attributed the difference to the HC2, the only different item. And I liked it. So please do not expect an accurate report of painstaking tentative mods: it was a fresh impression against established aural memory.

Anyone can – provided any interest in the thing – draw any conclusion; but I remember that the DR came out at the cuspid of a long period in which alternative PSUs were tentatively discussed, mainly because (I suspected, and wrote here) of a known '3rd party' manufacturer of 'Naim replacement' PSUs. On another known forum – where that manufacturer enjoys great reputation along with a freedom on intervention as promoter of his own commercial products in the audio section that has recently induced me to complain about it – many have written, in the years, about differences between a HiCap and that manufacture's *cap: the main one being that the HiCap gave a slight bump in the bass and some 'force' to the presentation while the other *cap brought some refinement at the expense perhaps of drive and 'fun'. Now, I notice two things: that since the DR technology has been used from HC up, talk about 3rd party PSUs – compatibly with forum regulations, pun unintended – has almost disappeared, and what they say on that other forum is, essentially, that differences between true and replacement PSUs have somehow reduced.

This induces me to think that what Naim perhaps intended to do, with the DR project, was to 'modernize' the sound of their classic PSUs and to win customers over the 'competitor'. It was in the hand of Naim, and Naim only, to win this not easy bet: to get refinement and to retain drive and PR&T. They apparently managed to do this. But does it exclude that the old design – on which Naim has built his entire upgrade path, for 40 years – was perhaps better embodying the original company's idea of sound?

I apologise for the long post, probably disproportionated to the topic; but I wanted to make it clear that my position in posting is now twofold: to innocently tell of an interesting experience, and to seek for an explanation for the causes of this experience. Hope this helps,

Max

I also think that LM317 Hicaps are superior to DR Hicaps,when it comes to boogie and fun factor.

In both passive and active systems using Naim SBL ,Royd Eden, Linn Kan and Linn Sara

Have you tried the supercap yet max

Hi Richard, yes I have, I just now replied to Ardbeg in my 'SNAICs' thread. I haven't been able to play much music for the last couple of days having spent them in bed, but as I have written, the impression made by a HC2 first, then by the SC,  is very good – after more than a year of DR here and there, I have found some more 'muscle' again. There must be a reason why Naim has stuck with an old, classic design for years – simple regulators, careful selection, minimal implementation of the circuit, big capacitors, big transformers... If there has to be a choice between power and finesse, I presently am for power.

Best

M

When was the last time you put the NACA5 back? 

I haven't – I've used NACA5 until summer of 2015, when I bought Vertere speaker cables. I then used the Vertere until my last tabula rasa moment, late spring this year, when I dismantled and sold everything. Last September, in need for speaker cables I looked around for 2 x 6 mt of NACA5 but couldn't find any occasion; I found a good bargain for TQBlack instead so I decided to give it a try.