Attack in Berlin

As sad as it is, a bigger problem may have just arisen with the assasination of Russia's ambassador to Turkey. The world  is not going in a good direction. 

Clay Bingham posted:

As sad as it is, a bigger problem may have just arisen with the assasination of Russia's ambassador to Turkey. The world  is not going in a good direction. 

I fear you are right. The position of Donald Trump will also not be helpful....

Bert

Soooooo true.

My son had only just pressed 'apply' on his 'study abroad - Berlin' application tonight when this news came through. My twin has lived in Germany for nearly 35 years and feared something like this. 

Thoughts to all affected.

G

Has it been confirmed that it is definitely a terrorist attack? just a few months ago I recall their was a shooting at a Mcdonalds, I think it was Berlin, it turned out to be a very disgruntled teenager and not a terrorist attack.

wenger2015 posted:

Has it been confirmed that it is definitely a terrorist attack? just a few months ago I recall their was a shooting at a Mcdonalds, I think it was Berlin, it turned out to be a very disgruntled teenager and not a terrorist attack.

Not yet.

According to the BBC News at 10 O'clock, police are keeping an open mind. They are questioning a suspect, believed to be the lorry driver. The other person in the lorry died in the incident.

However, the BBC analyst considered it more likely a terrorist attack rather than a traffic incident, but, according to Mrs D, an update at the end of the news programme suggested a traffic incident was more likely.

Last week 38 people were killed and over 150 injured by a terrorist attack in a popular tourist city whilst visiting a popular leisure location. For those of you who missed it the answer was Istanbul and the Besiktas football stadium. This event barely caused a ripple in UK media, it did not make any front pages and it was gone after a day from the news cycle.

Sad events. Sadder that they have become almost routine in many countries around the edges of Europe if not closer to home.

I always remember Lockerbie at this time of year; a friend of mine was killed on board. Terrorism is slowly losing the power to shock us in current times it feels. Finding the right balance between measured reporting and failing to properly mark the events that unfold seems to be increasingly difficult.

Bruce

A muslim again - islam is a threat to the civilization.

fusaton posted:

A muslim again - islam is a threat to the civilization.

Please be careful not all Muslims are terrorists.. 

I think he was being ironic.

When somebody asks me the meaning of Christmas, my first thought is always 'Peace on Earth'.

Especially to my English friends on this forum: could we please stop saying 'Happy Seasons' and just go back to the old 'Merry Christmas'. It is simply unfair to hide something important from people who are in need for it for a false reason: assumed respect for other cultures by hiding your own identity.

Quad 33 posted:

fusaton posted:

A muslim again - islam is a threat to the civilization.

Please be careful not all Muslims are terrorists.. 

He said 'Islam is a threat to the civilization', not 'Muslims are a threat to the civilization'. That's different.

Hanukkah and Xmas coincide this year I'm told!

In our house we observe but fail to properly celebrate both, equally.

Bruce

fusaton posted:

A muslim again - islam is a threat to the civilization.

[citation needed]

C.

Bruce Woodhouse posted:

This event barely caused a ripple in UK media, it did not make any front pages and it was gone after a day from the news cycle. Sad events. Sadder that they have become almost routine in many countries around the edges of Europe if not closer to home.

Sad indeed for my suspicion that sophisticated terrorist groups must be exploring means of a greater 'shock and awe' factor for their deeds on a grander scale. Sad as they are, random shootings and bombings can have a limited "chances of being struck by lightning" or lottery effect on the comfortable masses.

Cripple an economically strategic electric power system, contaminate a major municipal water supply, or corrupt an industrial food chain and suddenly everyone becomes more susceptible. These would have far greater economic and fear-factor results than a given isolated event.

9/11 was the harbinger, directly affecting the US economy and forever altering American lifestyle with regard to air travel. Diligence against attacks is a huge economic drain, both in the general public and the military. Monies are now spent on an uneffaced enemy that could otherwise be spent on more fruitful, positive social endeavors.

I fear for the next incarnation of 9/11, how it will manifest, and where it might leave the sociopolitical balance of our world.

Joe,

I'm much more negative than you. The things you mention are valid and correct observations.

It is only about 75 years  ago that we - Europeans - in free will slaughtered 6 million Jews. Yes, we could blame the Germans, but is was all of Europe being guilty of this.

I fear that when we in Europe keep the same immigration policy and stubborn / isolated EU nitwits, we could end up in a seriously unbalanced Europe which can already be seen in the increasing popularity of populist parties.

If Europe starts to burn, we are in serious trouble. There is no place on this planet where people could organize so well and fight wars. All of China and India will go down since their economies are based on exporting either things from China and Labor (pun intended) from India.

I'm very much afraid that Aleppo is the current Guernica.

The 6 million Jews might indeed be 'a wrinkle in history' (quote) compared to whats might happen.

This is not what I hope but what I'm afraid for and this is why I will visit a Christmas Market next year however I hate Christmas Markets and the chinese crap they sell.

Wars abroad to distract from woes at home. Putin worries me most on that premise. He is the great disruptor at the moment. I don't think terrorism is the destabilising factor globally; it is nation states.

Bruce Woodhouse posted:

Wars abroad to distract from woes at home. Putin worries me most on that premise. He is the great disruptor at the moment. I don't think terrorism is the destabilising factor globally; it is nation states.

I'm inclined to agree. But terrorism is a convenient excuse for cementing power within those nation states with increased surveillance, suppression of dissent and management of information. Terrorism fuels populist support for these goons. Scarily, the US continues to plummet into a state of fear and mistrust that simply enables the fascists that have taken power there.

I would tend to agree the combination of Putin and Trump is very dangerous for this world. Trump potentially turning his back to NATO  might motivate Putin to advance his influence, consequences are difficult to estimate....

Still terrorist attacks are terrible and give a lot of pain to innocent people and makes when it happens more often the world a less careless place....