Naim 250

Given Craig's lack of answers and specifics about his setup, displaying zero motivation to resolve his issue, I think any reasonable person would conclude his post is likely to be disingenuous.

Quoting myself (don't like that):

'It could be the case that you finally have a amp which is driving your speakers properly. This Nap 250 is supposed to 'control' your CM10's and what I know from my Supernait + Cm1 (only CM1, indeed, but it has the same sound signature as your CM10's) is that when the CM1's are too close to a wall, they start booming extremely. So, I have my bass reflex ports always filled with the standard provided foam bungs. This makes a difference, but does not completely solve the problem. Only when I move the speakers at least 1m from rear / side walls, the seem to have sufficient freedom.'

They just needs loads of space or a smaller amp like the NAP 200. Why not switch it with the guy on this forum complaining about his NAP 200?

Most of rear-ported speakers benefit from being placed away from the rear wall. 1 meter is typically the recomdendation - but like with everything testing and experimenting is needed.

Halloween Man posted:

Given Craig's lack of answers and specifics about his setup, displaying zero motivation to resolve his issue, I think any reasonable person would conclude his post is likely to be disingenuous.

Or maybe the OP is busy with a life and doesn't have the time to glued to the forum like a troll.

Giving people the benefit of the doubt shouldn't be so hard.

It is possible Craig just doesn't click with Naim stuff. I used Naim for years and years but then did a total swap over to Linn and although I now love my present sound I wouldn't say I now dislike Naim stuff, not at all. Questions we should be asking ourselves are,  are his speakers any good at rock? I wouldn't know never heard them. Is it his source that isnt right? Is it actually faulty? How is the system set up, with what, on what , being played in what and what is it plugged into? Does he have the experience to set up a system, it does take years to understand all hifi foibles and why would it sound ok on some lps and not others and would we agree if we could have a listen with him perhaps not, perhaps it actually sounds crap all the time. As someone who has a very musical ear I know that many many folk don't but they may not know that themselves. Not sure we can blame the dealer either, he can only listen to comments made and point to things that make noises that the customer says he likes. I suggest he looks for a buddy here on the forum that lives locally to him and who is willing to sit down and profer Craig some unbiased advice. Craig, if you live anywhere near Swindon Wiltshire then I am happy to offer my opinions. Unless he has something very very wrong with his system there is absolutely no reason not to love the 250, whatever the version chrome, olive whatever they are all fantastic power amps as long as they working as they should and don''t need a service or what ever. 

Most of rear-ported speakers benefit from being placed away from the rear wall. 1 meter is typically the recomdendation - but like with everything testing and experimenting is needed.

Adam,

I just read you comments and believe me I know exactly what you mean, I went along one evening to hear a friends new speakers, Monitor Audio Golds? Anyway it all sounded terrible and being as blunt to my friend as he usually was to me I told him so. He was not very happy with what I said about them but then pulled the speakers out from the wall as unknown to me they were rear ported and where had he had them? up close to the rear wall thats where! The result was a much improved sound that i believe he still has to today but the result was we are no longer friends which we had been since children.  Hey ho his problem but  I still felt (knew) his system was still boomy and over the top but as a heavy rock freak it appealed to him so that was fair enough but would not have been a sound I would want to live with. 

Wiltshireman posted:

Most of rear-ported speakers benefit from being placed away from the rear wall. 1 meter is typically the recomdendation - but like with everything testing and experimenting is needed.

Adam,

I just read you comments and believe me I know exactly what you mean, I went along one evening to hear a friends new speakers, Monitor Audio Golds? Anyway it all sounded terrible and being as blunt to my friend as he usually was to me I told him so. He was not very happy with what I said about them but then pulled the speakers out from the wall as unknown to me they were rear ported and where had he had them? up close to the rear wall thats where! The result was a much improved sound that i believe he still has to today but the result was we are no longer friends which we had been since children.  Hey ho his problem but  I still felt (knew) his system was still boomy and over the top but as a heavy rock freak it appealed to him so that was fair enough but would not have been a sound I would want to live with. 

 

I also use Monitor Audio Gold 300 - they need to be just under 1 meter away from the wall. Otherwise the bass becomes overpowering and looses some of the attack.

My wife was less than pleased, but as she likes music too I demonstrated various placements and their impact on the sound. She immediately understood and agreed to the new location. She even moved one of the sofas to accomodate!

OK, everyone's had their fun now.  I think it's time to give the OP the benefit of any doubt and let's see whether we can help get the best from his NAP250.  

So, Craig's get back to us with as much detail about the system and set-up and we'll take it from there.  Over to you...

Craig's,

I am sorry for my irony - I really thought it was some joke or provocation. I hope you'll sort your issue. I have a NAP250, non-DR, since a few days, and it sounds ok. I have also heard a non-DR 250, and then a 250DR, many times at a dealer's with every possible speakers. In his older store, the 282/HC/250 was the reference system to which he used to connect all speakers, from big Sonus Faber to whatever comes to your mind. I never heard such traces of excessive fulness, and the control on the bass, especially with some speakers, was always good to excellent.

Perhaps you need the help of your dealer, something must be really wrong somewhere – the room? BTW, I had a Quad 405.2 years ago, with Acoustic Research speakers, and in all honesty I could not even compare the two in terms of life, dynamics, engagement. The Quad was ok, but an involving amp is perhaps something different, and to my ears the 250 is different. Try everything before dismissing it.

Best

M

Perhaps is very simple. The OP was used to & liked Quad. Compared to that, a Naim 250 is very 'different'.

'We' are all used to the Naim sound - he is not (yet).

The Strat (Fender) posted:

Okay guys - murky entirely wrong word. I just found the old 250 a little ponderous and after home demo went back to the 200. 

Contrived and mechanical. Not quite all there in some areas and over plumped in others. 

Merely an opinion. Not widely shared but not unique either.

feeling_zen posted:

Halloween Man posted:

Given Craig's lack of answers and specifics about his setup, displaying zero motivation to resolve his issue, I think any reasonable person would conclude his post is likely to be disingenuous.

Or maybe the OP is busy with a life and doesn't have the time to glued to the forum like a troll.

Giving people the benefit of the doubt shouldn't be so hard.

you pricked my conscience, apologies to Craig if my judgement was premature

Adam Zielinski posted:

craig's posted:

Innocent Bystander posted:

craig's posted:

ken c posted:

there is also the possibility that the OP may actually have no experience of the 250 at all -- and that this may have been a way to generate some traffic on the thread. There have been numerous examples of this type in the past.

i say "possibility" -- as of course this might also have been a genuine posting and i apologize for implying some kind of mischief here... But the lack of follow-up is somewhat suspicious....

enjoy...

ken

 

Ok - so I am not a fool, and I listened to lots of tracks at the dealers - but maybe was kind of stupid because I didn't listen to much rock. Nearly everything sounded great, though R.E.M.'s 'Circus envy' sounded quite horrible. I thought it was just an anomaly. 

Really don't think it's the setup, otherwise why would some things sound great??? Angel Olsen sounds amazing, Kate bush sounds great. But The strokes tonight...!!! Sounds better thru my IPhone speaker than the system - flat, murky, overwhelmed by bass - horrible!

Can someone help me understand that? Yes, I have contacted the dealer but it's a 150m round trip... 

the Naim streamer and amp are both new. The speakers are 6 months old.

Unless you answer all the questions about your system, asked because that would help identify the problem, I doubt anyone will bother trying to help anymore

Does anyone actually have experience of using a naim 250 with B&W cm10s? My system is very simple - naim 250, naim 272 streamer and b&w cm10s. Dealer supplied speaker cable. 

 

Please answer the following questions below:

1. What rack are your components placed on?

2. What power cables are you using?

3. Are the power cables plugged directly into wall sockets? If not - what are they plugged into?

4. What speaker cables are you using? Brand, model and length?

5. Where in the room are your speakers placed? 

6. Room size

All of the above are vital information that has not yet been supplied

Not directed at you in particular Adam, but your post does capture the mood of this thread rather well................so

.....Christ ! Give the guy a break. This is getting more like The Spannish Inquisition than a Naim Forum !

My first 250 sat on a wooden sideboard, with standard Naim power lead, plogged into a mediocre ring main, feeding B'riks via QED 79 or Monster speaker cables, with the B'riks 8' appart, 1' off the wall,  firing accross a 15' x 10' room towards my chair so that I was about 8' away from the speakers.

Sounded brilliant.

What advice would you now give me (in retrospect)

Ah, I see common decency has already been restored, I had only got halfway down page two when I posted the above reply.

Don Atkinson posted:

Ah, I see common decency has already been restored, I had only got halfway down page two when I posted the above reply.

That's Ok  Don.

Standing by now, should the OP not be offended by our rants and decide to forgive us.

Richard Dane posted:

OK, everyone's had their fun now.  I think it's time to give the OP the benefit of any doubt and let's see whether we can help get the best from his NAP250.  

So, Craig's get back to us with as much detail about the system and set-up and we'll take it from there.  Over to you...

Thanks for all the comments - some helpful, some not so. There's a lot of passionate people out there! My dealer was very helpful, let me try a Linn amp and a Chord SPM650 amp to compare with the Naim - all other things the same. And sorry to say but the Chord just brings the music to life, my foot won't stop tapping. Listening to Arcade Fire's Suburbs - which I thought was a weaker record, all of a sudden it's in a whole new dimension. So, with respect, it's not the speaker cable, or the speaker position, or how many mm it is away from the wall, it's just that the Naim sounds dreary with my paired components. 

I'll sign off the forum now. Cheers!

Curious that you haven't helped people to help you, giving freely of the full info requested. Seems like a rather closed and uninterested query, but then You may have your reasons. Out of curiosity, was that latter comparison at home with your own components? And did you do a similar assessment before first buying the 250?

Craig's has made it clear he is not interested, so why should we be?

Innocent Bystander posted:

Curious that you haven't helped people to help you, giving freely of the full info requested. Seems like a rather closed and uninterested query, but then You may have your reasons. Out of curiosity, was that latter comparison at home with your own components? And did you do a similar assessment before first buying the 250?

Good questions...

wenger2015 posted:

Innocent Bystander posted:

Curious that you haven't helped people to help you, giving freely of the full info requested. Seems like a rather closed and uninterested query, but then You may have your reasons. Out of curiosity, was that latter comparison at home with your own components? And did you do a similar assessment before first buying the 250?

Good questions...

Really??? The 2 amps are sat side by side, so I can switch between one and the other just by switching the cables. The Chord brings the room to life. The Naim chugs. Unspectacularly. 

Harry posted:

The Strat (Fender) posted:

Okay guys - murky entirely wrong word. I just found the old 250 a little ponderous and after home demo went back to the 200. 

Contrived and mechanical. Not quite all there in some areas and over plumped in others. 

Merely an opinion. Not widely shared but not unique either.

Um, it's been determined that the OP is talking about a new 250DR.

Mine's a 250.2, in good fettle. Simply the best 250 (CB, Olive, Black) I've heard. I've not heard bolt down, though. And the good news is, that when time and funds allow I can go DR when it has its first service (about18 months away).

craig's posted:

wenger2015 posted:

Innocent Bystander posted:

Curious that you haven't helped people to help you, giving freely of the full info requested. Seems like a rather closed and uninterested query, but then You may have your reasons. Out of curiosity, was that latter comparison at home with your own components? And did you do a similar assessment before first buying the 250?

Good questions...

Really??? The 2 amps are sat side by side, so I can switch between one and the other just by switching the cables. The Chord brings the room to life. The Naim chugs. Unspectacularly. 

Keep the Chord then.

If you want further advice here it would be helpful to know the provenance of the 250, the interconnects, speaker cables etc. All this makes a difference.

craig's posted:

Richard Dane posted:

OK, everyone's had their fun now.  I think it's time to give the OP the benefit of any doubt and let's see whether we can help get the best from his NAP250.  

So, Craig's get back to us with as much detail about the system and set-up and we'll take it from there.  Over to you...

Thanks for all the comments - some helpful, some not so. There's a lot of passionate people out there! My dealer was very helpful, let me try a Linn amp and a Chord SPM650 amp to compare with the Naim - all other things the same. And sorry to say but the Chord just brings the music to life, my foot won't stop tapping. Listening to Arcade Fire's Suburbs - which I thought was a weaker record, all of a sudden it's in a whole new dimension. So, with respect, it's not the speaker cable, or the speaker position, or how many mm it is away from the wall, it's just that the Naim sounds dreary with my paired components. 

I'll sign off the forum now. Cheers!

impressed with your very thorough approach to comparing amps -- and glad you have found what, apparently, makes you tick, in the context of the rest of the rest of your system/room and of course, your ears, which found the 250 sounding "dreary".

fascinating!

enjoy your Chord SPM650...

ken

Thanks for the response Craig's. But before you go, please remind me which preamp was being used with the NAP250?