Which modern speaker can match the Sbl?

ATC SCM11 (a drum I beat loud and often, but they are truly exceptional)

I believe were you to restrict your auditioning to those 3 manufacturers' offerings on the basis of forum consensus you would risk missing out on a lot of very high quality speakers. Why not decide first upon your budget, then spend a while on the dealer circuit? Don't rely on others' definition of 'frogs' in the search for your 'prince'!

Dear Jon and Timmo.

You are indeed right. There are of course others as well, as ATC. Thanks for the tip, btw. Interesting and will look into it. The question is if there is any loudspeakers between 1000-2000 that can match the SBL, especially when it comes to  cohesion, speed, dynamics and bass.

Regards
Fred

Don't forget that the SBLs were designed to work close to a wall.  Highly desirable in many domestic environments.

Good point, Dungassin.
I have a room of 40 cm from back wall to speaker, and noe many design speakers that og against wall any more.

Fred

I would easily compare ATC SCM11 on good stands with excellent amp feed to equivalent driving SBL.

The only two advantages that SBL has over SCM11 are:

1) SBL can be placed against wall

2) SBL can be driven actively

However, I find 250DR to drive the SCM11's superbly.

Advantages of SCM11 against SBL:

1) much more neutral

2) same exceptional timing

3) far less fussy about setup (box gaskets etc)

4) current production with available parts

Having owned SBLs for years, I wouldnt hesitate to go with the SCM11s. Very happy with the pair I bought retail through Audiobarn.

There is a full pdf copy of the review done by Colloms on HifiCritic on the critic website -- he tested my pair. 

Thanks for excelent description, Jon.

I wonder how easy they are to drive though. I use serviced (and excelent) 50 what nap 160. Is it enough?

fred

Being another long standing ATC fan, i consider the latest ATC passive domestic range to be relatively easy to drive with no horrible amp destroying impedance curves. The sensitivity is a little low, so if you need to listen very loud with sofa vibrating bass then you will need a powerful amp to match.. at normal domestic levels I suggest 30 to 50 watts into 8 ohms is ample for the 11.

I'm loath to promote what I own, but would point out the benefits of ProAc D18 or 20s when it comes to placement, due to their downward firing bass port. Never having heard SBLs I am unable to draw any comparison, merely state that my D20s possess, to my ears, all the qualities you seek.

Do you actually want to sell them, or is it just an upgrade itch?

Having owned SBLs for many years I'm not sure what modern speakers get close to their unique attributes plus positioning advantages. That was certainly the conclusion I came to after some research anyway.

My genuine suggestion is to consider servicing and sprucing up your SBLs. I changed the tweeters and the seals a few years ago on mine with definite benefit. My speakers stayed with me from a basic passive system to a pretty high flying active one and gave me better enjoyment at every stage. Investment elsewhere might make you realise you want to keep them?

I resolved my dilemma in 2016. I have an active system and a fair bit more oomph so ended up with SL2s. Not really an option for you with that amp etc. Magic though.

My SBL's now live in my second system. I cannot imagine ever selling them!

Bruce

Purely as observation. A great many SBL users who needed to change speakers for whatever reason (damage, old age, sold and regretted) gravitated towards the PMC Twenty.23s. There are some similarities in how they groove but it stops there.

I was extremely familiar with both the SBLs and the Twenty.23s and they don't sound similar. I was in fact, never a fan of SBLs (call it grudging respect - but I'd take Linn Kabers in that era any day), while I am a huge PMC fan. Nevertheless, something seemed to pull many SBL owners towards that model PMC. 

nice thread, what is the difference between SCM11 and SCM 19?

Fred greetings of the season etc,

I can't make any meaningful comparison with the SBL as I have no real experience   However, having just been through the speaker purchase the 3 you mention are obvious choices as are ATC and Focal Sopra although I have to say I found the latter just too glossy for my tastes. 

3 things will guide any decision: Budget, synergy with Naim electronics and room placement.   I ended up with Kudos - actually somewhat against my expectations - but to these ears the result is outstanding.  

But of course do you really need to change?

Regards,

Lindsay

The SCM19 uses the highly regarded  150mm SL spec ATC mid/bass driver with integral 75mm soft mid dome from their professional monitor range, where  the 11 doesn't - the 19 has a bit more gravitas and authority and a slightly warmer presentation. The cabinet dimension of the 19 is approx 20 litres whilst the 11 is approx 12 litres.

Both sound good - i like the added detail, gravitas and presence from the 19

Hi Fred , I've never heard SBLs but can confirm the Naim/ATC synergy . I've had some ATC19s powered by a 250DR  for about 6 weeks now and they are magical , I can't wait for my streamer to return from Naim (over a month now   so I can have a proper listen now they have plenty of hours on them .  Even being restricted to optical from my TV and bluetooth audio into Hugo recently they are very enjoyable , Film choices seem to be governed by soundtrack quality which says a lot . 

Very good value indeed !!!

I've been trying to get hold of some SCM19s to audition for a couple of months now but it's proving more difficult than I would have imagined. My two nearest dealers appear to have had issues of one sort or another. Are there any dealers that want to potentially sell me a pair?!

Dear all! 

Thanks for all the very interesting posts. There seem to be a lot of ATC-Naim synergy going on. Very interesting. I checked the net and found 11 and 19 were standmounts. I forgot to mention, but if I were to change SBLs I really would want floor standing speakers. Do Atc have those as well? 
The Strat: Which Kudos do you have? 

Adam: I have a quite good source: ndac-xps-usb-spdf-interface-audirvana and LP12- Akula, Armageddon-Akito- adikt. The amp is a 12-160 with modified boards and pre-cards. 

I do love the Sbl and maybe the grass is not greener on the other side. Could be smart to go over them. 

Fred

Adam Meredith posted:

Fred11 posted:

The question is if there is any loudspeakers between 1000-2000 that can match the SBL,

If buying new - this is not an entirely fair 'ask' as SBLs today would cost, easily, over £4,000.

Apart from SL2s I found the best way to improve on my SBLs was to look at source and amplification.

That last sentence says exactly what I meant to say in my post, but rather more succinctly.

Bruce

Hi Bruce! Perhaps you hit the nai(m)l on the head with your first post. You can sometimes wonder if loudspeaker tecs has moved forward and speakers has evolved. Perhaps something modern an fresh can be a sbl-killer. Using vintage amp like the mentioned above or my old nait 2 it seems like evolution within Hi-Fi sometimes stands still and even moves backwards....

Fred

Steeve posted:

I've been trying to get hold of some SCM19s to audition for a couple of months now but it's proving more difficult than I would have imagined. My two nearest dealers appear to have had issues of one sort or another. Are there any dealers that want to potentially sell me a pair?!

If not already contacted, I suggest that you might want to try Jack at The Audiobarn in Old Harlow, Essex. See if you might be able to borrow some stands too if required.

Just for the record, I'm not connected with this business in any way.

Fred11 posted:

... if I were to change SBLs I really would want floor standing speakers. Do Atc have those as well? ...

Yes, ATC offer floor standing speakers although at a higher price point. Checkout their website for details.

We too thought we wanted a floor standing speaker until we heard the SCM19 but that's just our personal preference, so you'll have let your own ears decide as YMMV.

Fred,

i have S20s   Still running them in only 10 days old but had a demo pair for 2 weeks+https://forums.naimaudio.com/topic/kudos-s20s

Regards,

Lindsay.  

Fred11 posted:

Hi Bruce! Perhaps you hit the nai(m)l on the head with your first post. You can sometimes wonder if loudspeaker tecs has moved forward and speakers has evolved. Perhaps something modern an fresh can be a sbl-killer. Using vintage amp like the mentioned above or my old nait 2 it seems like evolution within Hi-Fi sometimes stands still and even moves backwards....

Fred

Speakers also have to fit around our room and our life. SBls (and SL2s) being flush against the wall makes a vast difference to 'liveability'.

Bruce

Fred11 posted:

....when its time for retirement.

You or the SBLs?!

You'd surely want the hear your SBLs with a NAC282, your HC and a NAP250 before you considered other speakers. I know I would, Fred. Just an opinion.

Chris

SBLs are super speakers. If vinyl is the main source then swapping to an Ekos and a good cartridge is the way I'd go. And as Chris says above, a 282 and 250 would be excellent too. It all depends on whether you want better or just different. There is no way something like the Kudos X2 is going to compete in terms of musical involvement.