Getting started with Naim, your recommendations

I would suggest you spend some time at your dealer trying options. I'd also suggest that you don't fix on speakers at the beginning. Set an overall budget and work out what's best within it. Assuming your budget is around £10,000, I'd suggest that you'd be far better with something like an NDX and Supernait 2, a good stand, and some speakers with the balance, than either of the options you have suggested. 

Hi Bastian,  welcome to Naim,  even if its only the forum at the moment.    I heard the Atom driving a pair of Focal-1's & was amazed of how well it sounded considering the volume & room size.  If that is an indication of the new range of all in one players,  it can only be better with the more powerful units.     I see B&W suggest 50W is the minimum for the 804,  I would follow that recommendation as the 804 does run down to 4 ohms & my feeling is the Star would be a better choice for 804's.  But as HH (above) says,  don't get fixed on a pair of speakers,  keep an open mind.   I have a friend who has 804's & he first used a Nait-5 to drive them, they were OK but has since moved to Supernait & that made a big difference.  But having listened to his system over a number of hours, I have to say I am not a 804 fan,  they are at first fast & very impressive, however considering the size the bass seems a bit lightweight,  but for me the treble is just too dominant.     So best advise is keep an open mind & have a short list of speakers & as with all such purchases your dealer should allow you a lot of time to listen with a number of speaker & amp combinations.     

Thanks for your answers. I would of course take another two or three listening sessions at the dealer. The first impression was, like Mike said, impressive. But at this time I just compared them with other B&W speakers.

I would echo HH's post. I would put aside notions of starting a system from the back - i.e. speaker first, and instead approach with an open mind and an idea of your budget limits.  Think of what you need - i.e. if you have lots of LPs, then a record player, or CDs, a CD player, or do you want to play files, in which case, serving, streaming devices etc.. Choose a dealer of good repute (arguably this is the most important thing of all), call them up for a chat about whet you are looking for, and then make an appointment to go and see them and hear some options.  This should be fun and also a journey of discovery. 

Thanks, Richard. The budget limit is quite set. Of course I took the approach you are talking about. Music collection is mostly on hard disk and additionally on CDs, no LPs. So I definitely need a system that offers me easy access to all those files. Naim Uniti with it's app seems a good choice, I guess.

So, do you actually need to play the CDs, or would you be happy to rip them? If you would, the money freed up can be redeployed. And if the budget is set, is it the £10,000 I assumed?

I'd be happy to rip the CDs, I don't think that I need an actual CD player. I'd like to buy high res music in future. So that would be downloads only instead of physical mediums.

The budget limit is around £10'000 to £12'000 incl. speakers, hi-fi components and cables.

I started with listening to the B&W CM series at another dealer. I went on with the 800 series now. That's a huge difference. But I have to say that the 804 D3 would be the highest possible speaker for my budget. So there's no sense in trying the other ones from this series.

As Mike said, the bass could be better on the 804. It would be interesting to have an alternative speaker in the same range to directly compare to the 804.

Bastian, I echo Nigel's and Richard's posts, but at the same time warn you, from the position of one who has changed, spent, tried and most of all believed all available audio hype: loudspeakers are the most difficult thing to choose and buy, hence they are the most important thing. You'll see it by yourself.

35 years after the first pronunciation of the Source First Law, we're still there: people discussing whether it's better to buy an NDX or an NDS, and then it's always the loudspeakers creating the biggest problems, along with their home the room. I've spent enough time and money of my own and now I believe I am in the position to judge by myself: buying loudspeakers is the PITA and the fun of audio.

Best wishes

Max

When I set up my current system in summer 2015, I spent £7,000 on electronics, £1,000 on a rack and £2,000 on speakers. The speakers were about six years old and would cost about £8,000 if made today. I later added a power supply and posh wires but the basic setup was as described above. In my view it's a good way to assemble a system in order to maximise what you can get for your budget. It's certainly miles better than a Uniti into £7,000 speakers. 

Massimo Bertola posted:

I've spent enough time and money of my own and now I believe I am in the position to judge by myself: buying loudspeakers is the PITA and the fun of audio.

 

That's exactly why I wanted to try different speakers first and on a second step finding adequate hi-fi equipment. After reading a lot on hi-fi today I guess it doesn't make sense for me to spend more money on the hi-fi components than on the speakers. That Naim dealer said it this way: Naim were very successful with their first Uniti lineup. On the other side they shot their own knee by cannibalizing the business of separate components. I think I perfectly fit in that category of users that are very well served with a powerful all-in-one system like Uniti.

Not all Naim dealers are of the same quality, my usual one if the UK has mostly given excellent advice but I've also had dealings with one in France, Naim have him listed only for the uniti and muso ranges and he didn't appreciate the importance of an earth connection (for safety as well as sound quality reasons) and couldn't solder a Naim speaker connecter on Naim speaker cable.  Is your Swiss dealer one of the 5 who carry the classic series?

Having said that I've heard the new Uniti series at Naim hq (through focal sopra 1s) and might just consider a Nova given your budget, I wouldn't go lower than that and would certainly try it against an NDX/SN2 with watever speakers fall within reach. The Nova won't be released for a while yet I beleive.

Bastian posted:

Hello everyone

I'm new to this forum and very likely new to Naim Audio very soon. I'm planning to buy new speakers. These will probably be 804 D3 from B&W. I've already consulted a local dealer that also distributes Naim products.

I'm not quite sure what'd be the best start into high end hi-fi. As most of my music currently is stored on a HDD I think the new Uniti system would be nice. I alternate between staring with an Uniti Star or an Uniti Atom both combined with my existing external hard disk drive. Not sure if the Atom's power would be enough for the 804 D3.

What would you recommend? Which further steps to upgrade that system do you see?

Hi Bastian 

welcome to naim. I am also a newbie and would like to give you a perspective from that angle. 

Your budget is super comfortable at 10,000. 

I echo the advice you got here: don't be monopolised by only one speaker brand. Listen to at least 3-5 brands 

be warned about the lego trend naim addiction can take you into. If you enjoy that, you will have the time of your life.

if like me, you don't and want to enjoy music with minimal boxes than I will look at the nova no less with your budget. A good combo negotiated should give you 20 percent discount on it and a superb pair of speakers plus interconnects/cables. The star ideal if you want to do ripping and listen to cds. I am going for atom myself and my speakers cost me less than £1k. 

My point is that a good speaker matched well to an amp can give you all the joy you need for half your budget. The Atom with right speaker is a simple expression of that so I will also not ignore with right speakers :-) 

All the best 

In my beginning I bought (to) many loudspeakers that had to go after a while instead of buying really good ones seriously a the start. They all were wonderful and I liked to try the different kind but I lost a lot of money. So I think it is a good idea to really take time for the loudspeakers at the start and for me it feels like you did that. Perhaps you fell a bit in love with the 804 and that would be perfect. With SN2 and NDX it would be great but it is a bit to much at the moment. A friend of mine started with the 804D2 and the superuniti and is very happy with it. Later he bought a 200 and thats it for him. For me it was allways a bit to harsh in the hights but he loves it. And the 804D3 could be different in this point. Sorry for my bad english!!

It is also worth considering an S/H Superuniti. I don't know how it compares to the new range but you might be able to pick up a bargain particularly if you're not worried about Bluetooth (my 2013 model cost about £2300 on a well known auction site and sounds beautiful).

As you are basically starting from scratch and with a budget of 10 to 12K as indicated your dealer should be able to recommend and demonstrate a rather nice system to suit your needs.

I would have an open mind on speaker choice till you discuss the available options at your nominated dealer, just take your time and enjoy your journey into Naim ownership it can be a long road but well worth it.

There's the new Uniti Nova coming along next year that was sounding mightily convincing when I heard a prototype down at the factory earlier this month.  A few other on here were there too and I think we were all in agreement that the Nova  (along with a Core as server) is potentially very, very, capable all-in-one system to which you just have to choose the speakers of your choice that best match. With your budget it's as good a place to start out on the demos, although you may have to wait a little while yet before the first demo units get to the dealers.

my only advice -- dont buy until you are sure. Any decent dealer will be happy with this

My two penneth. I personally would not build my first 10k system around a fixed loudspeaker choice. As you are starting from scratch you need to buy a complete system that sings as a whole. Buying the speakers first then fitting everything around them seems the wrong way to me.

At this stage of your HiFi education/ownership experience you need to spend your time choosing a good dealer before anything. Building a relationship with them is the best investment, and buy a complete set up, installed by them and with an extended home demo. They will help you if you are not sure or not satisfied and they'll help relieve you of more money in future years.

If you walk into a dealer with £10k to start from scratch they should be keen and interested. If not-go elsewhere!

Bruce

Bruce Woodhouse posted:

My two penneth. I personally would not build my first 10k system around a fixed loudspeaker choice. As you are starting from scratch you need to buy a complete system that sings as a whole. Buying the speakers first then fitting everything around them seems the wrong way to me.

At this stage of your HiFi education/ownership experience you need to spend your time choosing a good dealer before anything. Building a relationship with them is the best investment, and buy a complete set up, installed by them and with an extended home demo. They will help you if you are not sure or not satisfied and they'll help relieve you of more money in future years.

If you walk into a dealer with £10k to start from scratch they should be keen and interested. If not-go elsewhere!

Bruce

 

Bruce, I wish somebody had told me that in 1983 !

If you think about what the B&W 804 d3 does to the music signal that you like,   Maybe from the use of a sophisticated and refined tweeter, minimal crossover and other unique proprietary use of materials...it could help you to look at other speakers that also offer this and more that are a few years old. Ex demo or second hand.

If you have a really good dealer whose well connected they could help you look what's out there,  this would let you be more productive with the budget. - as in HHs point about his system.

Hi Bastian, welcome to the Forum.

When you auditioned  the B&W 804 D3, you obviously decided you liked them, so what was the source and set up? 

Hungryhalibut posted:

When I set up my current system in summer 2015, I spent £7,000 on electronics, £1,000 on a rack and £2,000 on speakers. The speakers were about six years old and would cost about £8,000 if made today. I later added a power supply and posh wires but the basic setup was as described above. In my view it's a good way to assemble a system in order to maximise what you can get for your budget. It's certainly miles better than a Uniti into £7,000 speakers. 

Nigel,

I agree with you on general terms, a Uniti – albeit a very good machine, I've just heard one again lately and it drove a pair of Harbeth M30.1s in a totally satisfying way – into costly speakers is not a wise move, unless one is in love with those speakers, those are the fixed point and one plans to move on from the Uniti later.

What I wanted to say is that choosing the speakers is so difficult that buying electronics, in comparison, is a quick and safe matter. You say that a pair of SL2s would cost £8000 today, so basically you have allotted 50% of your budget to loudspeakers and 50% to all the rest. In ancient times, hifi magazines suggested more or less so. Between the Sats/Sub you played for me in Emsworth and your current SL2s, there have been – if I remember correctly – Spendor A5s, Linn Kabers, Naim IBLs,  PMCs. You have experimented, settling was not easy. In the end, it was a very consolidated design you already have owned.

Buying speakers is difficult, that's why I suggested that if the OP really likes the B&Ws, well why not?

Speakers by far the most difficult choice

Go listen to others, personally I dislike most B&W,s, case is you just maked a reservation bout bas, why compromise with such a nice budget

Below is a list you should try get a listen at, not neccesary all wide recommended but its about finding your own favorite, there so many out there, list is just by memory within a second

A s/h purchase is in order vielleicht?

Really some dosh spared to forward against amp or the like

Kudos, Neat, ATC(also active), PMC, Focals, arghh did I mention these ��, older Naim, Spendor, Harbeth, Quad electrostatic, Magnepan, Rega, Proac, Russell K, Tannoy amo

I'll agree with that! Choosing speakers is a complete nightmare. I initially thought the Spendor A5 (which Max kindly reminded me of above) were great, with  a lovely midrange and nice tight bass. But after they'd run in and loosened up they became a disaster. Not only does one have to try speakers at home, one has to try run in examples. Some rooms are easier than others, but mine is quite small and speakers need to go near the wall, and I have problems with getting the bass right. In a big room with more placement flexibility it may be easier. 

This is a nice thing about getting used speakers - if you don't like them you can sell them without losing lots of cash. 

Wow, thanks for all the feedback. Not easy to decide what to do now… 

I'm definitely going to try a couple other speakers. B_LUND, thanks for your list. I'll see what I'll e able to get to listen to. Also, my dealer is waiting for the new Uniti components. He will call me when they arrived so I can go and listen how they work on the 804 D3.