That is me finished ...
Posted by: Allan Milne on 30 December 2016
I am both disappointed and relieved since I did some demos this week that I had been looking forward to for a month or so.
I am relieved because, as per an earlier thread from GraemeH, I an now definitely finishd ...
disappointed because I didn't get to buy any new toys.
Two areas were demoed; LP12 and digital/pre.
The LP12 I listened to Ekos SE arm, power supplies and Keel; all were better but the differences were all subtle and very incremental.
On the digital/pre side I demoed Linn Akurate and Klimax DSM; found the Akurate perhaps a little mudddier than my current set-up and although the Klimax was certainly impressive, it wasn't the quantum jump I was hoping for.
After returning home I again played the tracks I had been listening to in the demo and confirmed to my ears that I could find no fault in what I was hearing and that the demo had been about slight improvements that you really had to listen to. Perhaps the only exception to this was the Klimax which was certainly presenting a slightly more coherent experience.
The bottom line was
* there was no 'wow' factor; smirks rather than big smiles.
* I was having to really listen to identify sonic differences, my ears were at saturation point!
* the improvements I could hear could not justify the price.
* my current system is sounding almost as good as adding these upgrades at an additional cost of between 1/3 and 2/3 of its price but only getting a fractional (5%?) improvement.
From other reviews in other places, I don't believe that the Naim streamers/pre-amps with their older technologies can provide that wow factor I'm already getting; no-one has ever suggested they are so much better than the Linn, just different so I'm not going to demo further since I am only interested in VFM.
Remeber these were *MY* ears and it may be that I have reached the limit of what they can resolve, these are not objective comments on any other aspect of the components.
I was accompanied at my demo and he confirmed my listening findings, he was gobsmacked by the prices when I told him (after the demo) ... as he said, the improvements might be worth £1k but then he also thinks the cost of my current system is a bit distasteful ... hasn't quite got the diminishing returns bit ... 
I take this as a great advert for my Majik LP12 and Naim DAC V1 and 202/Hicap in providing a system that provides such a great sound.
Having now had a quick peek at the other side of the fence it is very satisfying to know that my grass is just as green 
So no upgrades until something breaks and I can now concentrate on listening to more music ...
have just ripped 5 Xmas CDs on the UnitiServe ... it is so easy it is obscene ... and now to sit back and listen ...
Allan
Posted on: 30 December 2016 by mason63
Happy and content is a great place to be, Allan you have it sussed!
Posted on: 30 December 2016 by ianrobertm
Excellent post. This is how demo's should be done. Reminds me of several I had, years ago, trying to find a 'better' CD player than my then Arcam. Nothing sounded 'better enough' to justify the cost. Only a used CDX2 finally did that - at the 3rd demo.
Ripping FIVE Xmas CD's is perhaps, a slightly excessive response to these demo's - but they are your ears....!! 
Perhaps I might suggest you consider the VFM option of a good, used 282 - which would surely drop neatly into your system....? Apologies if this idea was already considered and rejected..... 
Posted on: 30 December 2016 by wenger2015
I hope you had a lot of fun in the demo process despite not achieving that 'Wow Factor', but at least you satisfied your curiosity, and as you rightly say all improvements need to add VFM...
Just one suggestion though, have you considered upgrading your speaker cables? Possibly Super Lumina, TQ Ultra Blacks , both are highly rated on the forum ...
Posted on: 30 December 2016 by Allan Milne
Thanks for the replies folks.
I won't be going s/h, no confidence and if new components aren't doing it then s/h would only do it VFM at around 1.5k ... there I've actually put a value on those incremental improvements I was hearing 
... BTW that is not about what I can afford but rather what value I place on it in the context of what I already have, just to be clear!
As for cables ... let's not go down that route :eyeroll: particularly since SL is, as far as I'm concerned, in the land of the Night Garden (those with kids or grandkids know what I mean by that
.
... just finished listening to Rag 'n Bone Man Wolves CD (Xmas pressie) and its percussive sound really comes over well on my system ... I'm grinning again.
Allan
Posted on: 30 December 2016 by Clay Bingham
Nice post Allan. You approached the process logically and have gotten a honest result. Not easy for everyone to do but I suspect we'd all be happier if we did.
Posted on: 30 December 2016 by GraemeH
You're finished Allan...finished I say!
G
Posted on: 30 December 2016 by Halloween Man
Enjoyable read Allan. Sorry if I upset your new found karma but I think there is one thing you could still try that will provide a big increase in sq and offer vfm, substitute your V1 for a Chord Mojo.
PS. Really enjoying rag and bone man only human, great song.
Posted on: 30 December 2016 by Claus-Thoegersen
How did you control the Linn streamers. When I last checked a Linn streamer the pc app was 100 percent inaccessible but I did not look at the iOS apps.
With a system build around a Dac Chord may be an option, or wait and see what happens with the next generation of Naim streamers, or just forget about upgraditis.
Claus
Posted on: 30 December 2016 by Allan Milne
Claus - the linn IOS control app is partly accessible but usable; the music selection is fine but there are too many unlabelled buttons - including the play/rewind/ff - I accessed these by BoiceOver finger positioning at the bottom right and memorising the order.
This could have been a total deal-breaker but I thought I could use it and I am sure that if Linn were made aware of the unlabelled buttons they would correct these as it is a pretty trivial software edit. Can't coment on the Tidal or other streaming control since I was always using music from a NAS.
Allan
Posted on: 30 December 2016 by Adam Zielinski
Great post Allan! Well done with the research.
I do have one upgrade suggestion for you, but surely you'd not be interested in that... 
Posted on: 30 December 2016 by Claus-Thoegersen
Nice to know that the app works, so we have more choices in streaming devices. I must still admit that controlling with iOS/Android for me is not optimal, when I am used to the Windows DTC! I am really looking forward to getting my ns01 back in a not to distant future. Blue OS works on iOS with some issues they hopefully will resolve, but Naim servers rule them all!
Claus
Posted on: 30 December 2016 by Bart
Interesting Allan and congrats for finding some 'peace of mind' 
I've had similar experiences test-driving new cars. I get back in my current car and think, "This isn't so bad!"
Cheers!
Posted on: 30 December 2016 by Bert Schurink
It's good to see that you have the maturity to say it's enough for you. In hifi we are definitely talking about the law of diminishing returns. While I am on the side of the people who can appreciate also the smaller increments....., but it's a very personal choice. And being alone it's much more easy to convince yourself that you need it....
Posted on: 30 December 2016 by Allan Milne
Bert - who says I don't need it ... 
Posted on: 30 December 2016 by ChrisSU
With a system build around a Dac Chord may be an option, or wait and see what happens with the next generation of Naim streamers, or just forget about upgraditis.
.....or even the next generation of Chord DACs, given that they are about to announce some new products? 
Posted on: 30 December 2016 by The Strat (Fender)
Good stuff Allan. Enjoy the music - as they say!
Regards,
Lindsay
Posted on: 30 December 2016 by Dozey
I thought you were curious about the Townshend Allegri? Not very expensive for the performance.
Posted on: 30 December 2016 by Allan Milne
Dozey - yes, I was curious and I believe that I could get one on a demo basis from the manufacturers but in my special case I can't do anything myself regarding cabling/set-up/etc and would rely on my dealer and he doesn't carry them and is not keen/interested.
Allan
Posted on: 30 December 2016 by Dozey
Perhaps someone on this forum could help out. I don't know where you are based, but I am in Hertfordshire and could help out if you are not too far away.
Posted on: 30 December 2016 by Allan Milne
Sorry Dozey - NE Scotland ... just a wee bit away from you but it was very kind of you to offer
Thanks,
Allan
Posted on: 30 December 2016 by nigelb
It is very amusing. When a chap on here says he is done and gives a wonderful and lucid explanation as to where he is and why he is done, all several of us can do is suggest an upgrade to the poor chap. We just can't help ourselves.
Alan, you are in a good place, and you have clear and sound reasons to stop where you are. You have even gone to the lengths of 'exploring' the superb competition and have satisfied your curiosity.
I would love to be able to say I am done. But when I am, and if I announce it on here, please, please resist the temptation to advise me on the next logical upgrade.
Fact: There will always be something better.
Fact: Us mere mortals have to stop somewhere.
Imponderable: Where exactly does one stop?
Posted on: 30 December 2016 by wenger2015
New year resolution must stop ignoring what the OP says .......
Posted on: 30 December 2016 by nigelb
New year's resolution. Must spell the OP's name correctly.
Sorry Allan.