DIN vs RCA

Adam Zielinski posted:

badlands posted:

Adam Zielinski posted:

badlands posted:

For the exact same reason as you, a cleaner, clearer, and more open sounding, more transparent sound than the DIN to DIN cables I have tried. The HiLine being one that was tried, among a few others.

Chord Co, Atlas and Nordost  RCA to RCA cables all sounding better to my ears.

You can reference the previous thread here. Re: RCA or Snac 5

From the thred I seem to recall you did not compare the same make and model of RCA-RCA vs DIN-DIN... or am I mistaken?

Yes, you are correct Adam, but I would like to point out that the $1400.00 Hiline DIN to DIN sounded inferior to my ears than the much less expensive Chord and Atlas, RCA to RCA cables.

In other words, if the DIN to DIN HiLine sounded inferior to the less expensive RCA to RCA cables, why would the comparison to a Hiline RCA to RCA really matter?

 

Well... generally tests, to be valid, involve comparing like for like products....

Come on Adam, that's a ridiculous statement in the context of this discussion.

 Tests mean absolutely nothing if it makes individuals disagree with what their own ears tell them.

I buy stereo equipment based on what I hear, not what some other members ears tell them!

feeling_zen posted:

Bear in mind RCA was originally for DC power, not audio. 

Not so: as your own subsequent post indictes, it was to carry audio from a turntable to the amplifier part of a radio.

Robiwan posted:

Din stands for "Deutsches Institut für Normung" so it's German enginering, so should be good

=a standard for connectors, not specifically low level audio.

Neither basic connector type was designed specifically to be the best possible means of connecting audio signal cables as in modern hifi interconnects, and both types have been subject to considerable refinement by different manufacturers over the years, making them both quite reasonably suited to this function.

Personally I prefer XLR to DIN for multi pin use, but with a few exceptions they have remained the province of professional audio...

Innocent Bystander posted:

feeling_zen posted:

Bear in mind RCA was originally for DC power, not audio. 

Not so: as your own subsequent post indictes, it was to carry audio from a turntable to the amplifier part of a radio.

No. As I have in fact emphatically mentioned twice, it's first ever use was to carry power (and only power) to an add on turntable from a very specific model of RCA wireless radio.

What was used to carry the audio signal from the said turntable to the amplifier part of the radio? (Which is the function attributed to said connector online), given that powering it up is pointless without access to its audio apoutput?

Innocent Bystander posted:

What was used to carry the audio signal from the said turntable to the amplifier part of the radio? (Which is the function attributed to said connector online), given that powering it up is pointless without access to its audio apoutput?

I've also answered this in a previous post. As far as I know, the turntable was a self contained device and apart from drawing power from the radio it did everything else (amp and speaker) itself. The main point of the connector was a propietary link to get people with the wireless to buy that specific turntable instead of brand X. It was then abandoned for DC power and used as a signal carrier on next or possible next+1 model.

Well suited to audio it might be, but it was cooked up quickly without huge consideration. As have many other standards that have stood the test of time.

feeling_zen posted:

Innocent Bystander posted:

What was used to carry the audio signal from the said turntable to the amplifier part of the radio? (Which is the function attributed to said connector online), given that powering it up is pointless without access to its audio apoutput?

I've also answered this in a previous post. As far as I know, the turntable was a self contained device and apart from drawing power from the radio it did everything else (amp and speaker) itself. The main point of the connector was a propietary link to get people with the wireless to buy that specific turntable instead of brand X. It was then abandoned for DC power and used as a signal carrier on next or possible next+1 model.

Well suited to audio it might be, but it was cooked up quickly without huge consideration. As have many other standards that have stood the test of time.

That is different from the record online (e.g., Wikipedia), while the connection of audio to the radio's amp makes more sense than connecting dc to the turntable for it to run into its own amp.

You must have good reason for your assertion, but is it true beyond any question, and on what basis?

[@mention:41551091830475636]: you seem to like making people repeat themselves. I've stated this came from a documentary on the history of RCA early on in the thread. And while I recognise Wikipedia as possibly the best source of general information on the web, it is not infallable.

I would point out that even Wikipedia did not manage to source and show the first ever use but only the use from the 1940s on. A decade after the RCA connector first appeared.

I won't respnd to this again. People are free to either beleive me or not. This forum isn't a peer reviewed dissertation discussion. I'm telling you it was first used for and intended for DC power. If you believe otherwise, congradulations.

Robiwan posted:

Yes i know Din is the way to go with Naim but still sometimes my preference is RCA-RCA or DIN-RCA because it has more treble sprakle/bite/less warmth.

Have 2 din lavenders for CD5italic and NAT05 tuner, one to the SuperNait cd input and the other the tuner input. Sound is balanced but especially with tuner also a bit warmish/wooly and "bass" heavy (less so with the din tape input!). With a cheap din to rca cable (din on the tuner side) sound changes and gets more clear/clean and upfront with less warmth. With the CD5italic my preference is still the lavender. 

What are you're experiences din vs RCA?

There are some users who do not use a Naim source hence all-DIN connections are not applicable.

I have only tried comparing a pair of high quality RCA interconnects which costs more than 9 times the RCA-DIN cable, and the RCA-DIN is preferable as it adds a smidgen more air and sparkle to the treble.

I have compared TQ black interconnects, din va rca. I preferred the din variant. It had a more open feel to it, a fuller sound, a little more detail and a slightly bigger soundstage. I ended up with the Black diamond which is brilliant. 

Finkfan posted:

I have compared TQ black interconnects, din va rca. I preferred the din variant. It had a more open feel to it, a fuller sound, a little more detail and a slightly bigger soundstage. I ended up with the Black diamond which is brilliant. 

Yes, agree with those observations, as for the TQ black diamond din, it's truly exceptional .

wenger2015 posted:

Finkfan posted:

I have compared TQ black interconnects, din va rca. I preferred the din variant. It had a more open feel to it, a fuller sound, a little more detail and a slightly bigger soundstage. I ended up with the Black diamond which is brilliant. 

Yes, agree with those observations, as for the TQ black diamond din, it's truly exceptional .

What type of RCA plugs are used for the TQBlacks, my plug of choice is Tiffany or Tiffany Style.

Not sure what type. Might be there own. They do have locking collars and gold plating. 

feeling_zen posted:

[@mention:41551091830475636]: you seem to like making people repeat themselves. I've stated this came from a documentary on the history of RCA early on in the thread. And while I recognise Wikipedia as possibly the best source of general information on the web, it is not infallable.

I would point out that even Wikipedia did not manage to source and show the first ever use but only the use from the 1940s on. A decade after the RCA connector first appeared.

I won't respnd to this again. People are free to either beleive me or not. This forum isn't a peer reviewed dissertation discussion. I'm telling you it was first used for and intended for DC power. If you believe otherwise, congradulations.

Hmm, I think I may have caused a bit of confusion here.  sorry

The model shown on Wikipedia is the 1939 vintage RCA Victor 45EM.  Looking at the schematic (courtesy of Radiomuseum.org), the connector is an input wired so as to break into the external antenna input (the unit does have an internal loop antenna) and feed the first amplifier section (12SQ7) . So in this particular instance, the RCA connector is used for "phono input"

Finkfan posted:

I have compared TQ black interconnects, din va rca. I preferred the din variant. It had a more open feel to it, a fuller sound, a little more detail and a slightly bigger soundstage. I ended up with the Black diamond which is brilliant. 

I actually own both TQ Black Diamond RCA-RCA and TQ Black Diamond DIN-DIN. In a context of a Naim system DIN-DIN is the preferred choice for me.

I use RCA-RCA version to hook up my Yamaha AV set up to an AV input on my SN2 (running in a uniti gain mode).

DynFan160 posted:

It's just too bad that DIN limits you to NAIM equipment, including inferior NAIM DACs. This is one reason why I'll probably jump off the NAIM train in 2017 and buy a balanced XLR setup with a different brand. Pretty much everyone else like Hegel, Accuphase, Schiit, etc. all offer an IA (or Pre) with balanced XLR inputs. Not NAIM (except the Statement S1).

So, you're saying that you will leave Naim because they don't offer XLR connections?? I understand that you'll have a preference for another brand, but just because of the connector type seems a bit odd to me. I better start another threat regaring the balanced XLR connectors then. Basically, the balanced setup only makes sense when using longer cable runs, hence it's use in professional applications. 

Great discussions over here!

Klout10 posted:

DynFan160 posted:

It's just too bad that DIN limits you to NAIM equipment, including inferior NAIM DACs. This is one reason why I'll probably jump off the NAIM train in 2017 and buy a balanced XLR setup with a different brand. Pretty much everyone else like Hegel, Accuphase, Schiit, etc. all offer an IA (or Pre) with balanced XLR inputs. Not NAIM (except the Statement S1).

So, you're saying that you will leave Naim because they don't offer XLR connections?? I understand that you'll have a preference for another brand, but just because of the connector type seems a bit odd to me. I better start another threat regaring the balanced XLR connectors then. Basically, the balanced setup only makes sense when using longer cable runs, hence it's use in professional applications. 

Great discussions over here!

That's true ,but sometimes problems arise when you want to mix equipment with different connections.

An example from a current topic is marrying ATC active loudspeakers( XLR only input) with NAIM pre-amps.

It's only relatively recently that NAIM routinely fitted RCA sockets to their boxes. With the rising popularity of balanced XLR connections maybe they may move in that direction. With the advent of the Statement they may well already be thinking about it for the lesser boxes.

RCA made radios, and Victor made phonographs. In the early 1920s the phonographs used acoustic horns for amplification, and had a choice of wind-up or, increasingly, electric motors. Early electric motors were ac/dc, and 115v to suit the mains voltage in America. (In those days there were DC supplies, before being replaced by AC)

IIUC in the late 20s the hookup between RCA and Victor, before their merger, started with the provision of combined radio and phonograph, whence came the start of electric (magnetic) pickups and electric amplification, and the electricL link between the phono source and radio amp.

i don't know where in that would have been the use of the prototype 'RCA plug' to carry DC power: possibly some phonographs had low voltage DC motors designed for batteries that the reduced filament voltage in the radios could be tapped to provide, though this is purely conjecture.

hiwever, this is a bit of an aside from the topic of this thread! Suffice to say it is an old design, and has been used for audio since very early days.