Qobuz Support

+1 really liking Qobuz now on their sublime subscription. Is it still the case that 24bit streaming is for your purchased library only, everything else is maximum CD 44.1/16.

I use the iPhone app in the car and use bluetooth to stream to the car hifi, works a treat and sounds excellent, all at 44.1/16 and 48/24 that bluetooth allows.

Would really hope this would happen, this has been discussed already before..., but obviously it didn't lead to action. For me it would mean that I would get the best of both sides. And I would able to get rid of 1 streaming subscription, Tidal ....

Dan43. I'm not sure about that. To be honest that would make the whole thing fold like a pack of cards. If I've already bought the flac I wouldn't need to stream it from the web?

i would hope you would simply pay a monthly fee and get all streaming hi-res if available ??

The new Uniti streamers can run Google Cast.  To be honest, I don't really know what that is, but it enables the use of Qobuz and other streaming services. It won't be backwards compatible with existing Naim streamers, though, I guess you'll have to wait for NDX2 for that....

Naim are unlikely to comment. Qobuz is complex. Qobuz has had a number of issues that would need to be addressed before any partnership is likely.

- Historically Naim have been reticent to comment on any streaming partnerships until a deal is done.

- Qobuz is only available in limited number of markets. No US coverage is a particular issue.

- This time last year Qobuz was in bankruptcy protection. The company was sold to new owners, but it's not unreasonable for a company with limited development resources like Naim to be cautious. I recently noticed the Yamaha speakers on my desk now support Qobuz, so clearly Yamaha are happy to do business with Qobuz.

- Getting Redbook streaming up and running in some homes can be challenging. Anything more could increase Naim's support costs to an unacceptable level. The major record labels have shown more interest in MQA than Hi-Res streaming to this point, possibly due to it's lower bandwidth requirements. 

- Qobuz is developing it's own playback ecosystem which could conflict with Naim's, making it less attractive. That said, Roon comming to the new Uniti range could counter against that argument.

- Perhaps Naim is going after bigger fish. It's probably unlikely in the short to medium term, but I bet Naim would love to offer Apple Music.

Jedi Neil posted:

Dan43. I'm not sure about that. To be honest that would make the whole thing fold like a pack of cards. If I've already bought the flac I wouldn't need to stream it from the web?

i would hope you would simply pay a monthly fee and get all streaming hi-res if available ??

Things change but I believe only 24bit streaming is available for files purchased with Qobuz, sublime subscription allows for anything on the library to stream at CD quality.

I stream using bluetooth to the N272 via iPhone and also through Chromecast (HDMI via my Sony smart TV, taking toslink out of TV and into N272) this also puts all the streaming info and album art onto the TV, a nice touch.

It isn't integrated but via iPhone and Bluetooth I can stream to an N272 easily, just pair them up. I use a spare older iPhone for this so the regular iPhone 7 (new) is free for all the other stuff it does.

I thought Bluetooth full resolution streaming was only availabke with Aptx supporting devices and I thought iPhone could not do this and so the iPhone car straming was lower resolution. Am I mistaken? (Hope so as I have iPhone and bluetooth streaming car is on order...)

I believe you are correct.

My understanding is that Bluetooth Aptx is not full resolution.  I believe that Qualcomm (the owner of the Aptx codec) has a new hi res version which will allow full cd resolution streaming (and higher) - Aptx HD.  This is a brand new codec and many devices have yet to implement it.

iPhone/iDevices do not support the Aptx codec.  They support the AAC codec which is a slightly lower resolution.

I am aware of these things as I have been researching Bluetooth wireless headphones this past month.  One thing to be aware of when purchasing a Bluetooth wireless headphone for use with a iPhone is to make sure that it supports the AAC codec (as Aptx will not be of any use).  Some wireless headphones do not support this codec (Sennheiser Wireless Momentum headphone comes to mind).

I seem to get 48/24bit output from both Qobuz and Liztic apps via iPhone7 bluetooth streaming in the car, all copied over into the apps the 192/24 and 96/24 files are limited as 48/24 output when using bluetooth, or so the apps say and the screens/info showing the app output.

All 44.1/16bit files stream through bluetooth with zero issues, again I can only go by what the output shows. some albums that are 44.1/24 also all play back fine. Not sure what could be going on but thats what they have been doing for months.

Sounds very very good to me for a car stereo.

Well the good news is Naim appear to be moving away from developing new specific service integration, such as what they achieved with Tidal. It's too costly and troublesome and restrictive.. Tidal means very little if anything in Asian markets for example. Instead Naim have developed support for Chromecast, if you like a middleware for streaming services, for the new Uniti players and almost certainly this will trickle up into the seperates.

Qobuz has Chromecast support, so Qobuz appears supported with the new Uniti players by using Chromecast.

As I read it, the likelihood of integrating Qobuz into existing streamers is nil. That said, the googlecast facility of the new platform Uniti range will enable Qobuz to be played by casting from an iPad or whatever. 

I wonder if there's any possibility that the new streaming platform could be made available to existing streamers as a hardware upgrade, like the 24/192 board was. Probably not, but it would save a lot of people from an expensive black box upgrade if it was.

ChrisSU posted:

I wonder if there's any possibility that the new streaming platform could be made available to existing streamers as a hardware upgrade, like the 24/192 board was. Probably not, but it would save a lot of people from an expensive black box upgrade if it was.

Pretty sure this specific idea was refuted by Phil in the early announcement days:  the new Uniti platform  is too fundamentally different to be offered as a board level upgrade to existing hardware iirc. 

That said, the audiophile grade Chromecast technology developed by Naim might make for a pretty cool external standalone  streaming module as a separate and non-overlapping product for their lineup...

What will also be interesting for the detailed comparison fans will be deciding whether natively supported services, Spotify and Tidal, sound any different when fed via Chromecast  

Regards alan

Hungryhalibut posted:

As I read it, the likelihood of integrating Qobuz into existing streamers is nil. That said, the googlecast facility of the new platform Uniti range will enable Qobuz to be played by casting from an iPad or whatever. 

Can you elaborate, why nil. Hardware limitations, or what is the reason ?

I don't understand online streaming of hi res files only if someone has already bought them: if people already have them locally, why would anyone stream over the internet, with all the associated potential pitfalls?

Out of interest, AUdirvana integrates Qobuz streaming. I can't comment on its sound quality as online streaming holds no interest for me, but the rendering is clearly the same as from a local source. That suggests that there is no more impediment than, say Tidal.

I gave up on hoping Naim would support Qobuz some months ago, and am now using a Mac Mini with the latest Qobuz beta App, digital output to the SU. This works really well, and I've had no problems or drop-outs at all. I don't really see ChromeCast as much more than a cop-out, (a) because I understand it doesn't support gapless playback, crucial to classical listening,  (b) because the technology is limited to 16/44. If anyone is going to offer better than CD streaming in a meaningful way, it looks likely to be Qobuz. I very much regret that Naim haven't seen fit to deal with them.

Goon525 posted:

I gave up on hoping Naim would support Qobuz some months ago, and am now using a Mac Mini with the latest Qobuz beta App, digital output to the SU. This works really well, and I've had no problems or drop-outs at all. I don't really see ChromeCast as much more than a cop-out, (a) because I understand it doesn't support gapless playback, crucial to classical listening,  (b) because the technology is limited to 16/44. If anyone is going to offer better than CD streaming in a meaningful way, it looks likely to be Qobuz. I very much regret that Naim haven't seen fit to deal with them.

Paul,

How do you control the the Qobuz beta app? (assuming it's running on the Mac Min).  Also, what optical cable do you use to connect the Mac Mini to the SU?  I'm thinking of giving a Qobuz subscription another try as I'm spending far too much on downloads.

Chris

I don't know if you're aware, or if it is at all relevant, but if you have a Mac Mini (or indeed other Mac)  you can run Audirvana, which has built-in Qobuz online streaming, and gives the benefits of thatbprogram's sound quality, including being able to avoid using the Mac's internal soundcard, though with the disadvantage that the usb output may  need a converter to SPDIF or optical to feed the SU or other DAC (I used the inexpensive Gustard U12 which has both SPDIF and optical outputs), and doing that I found achieved noticeably better quality than the computer's soundcard output).

Chris

I already had a MacBook, which I use with Screen Share (built into Finder) to provide pretty much perfect control. Although this solution required me to buy the MacMini, this is providing other benefits - for instance I've subscribed to the Berlin Phil's Digital Concert Hall, offering superb video and very good audio of all their Berlin concerts, again controlled very easily via the Mini. Incidentally, it's no longer Qobuz Beta, they've just introduced an elegant new App, which so far works fine.

Innocent, as my SU lacks a USB input, I use the digital audio optical output from the MacMini built into the headphone socket. I'm using a cheap optical cable and haven't spent time, I'm afraid, discovering whether a better one would offer much advantage. Do you have any reason to think that using Qobuz via Audirvana would offer any sonic advantage over what I'm doing?

Paul

Bert Schurink posted:

Hungryhalibut posted:

As I read it, the likelihood of integrating Qobuz into existing streamers is nil. That said, the googlecast facility of the new platform Uniti range will enable Qobuz to be played by casting from an iPad or whatever. 

Can you elaborate, why nil. Hardware limitations, or what is the reason ?

I understand Naim have found it too time consuming, restrictive  and expensive to develop service specific interfaces. They did it with Spotify and then Tidal but now have changed direction. The ChromeCast approach is how its being done with the new Naim architecture... and you can get Qobuz that way... You might need to wait for ChromeCast to appear in the new generation ND components - but should be appearing on the new Uniti products imminently

S 

Goon525 posted:

Innocent, as my SU lacks a USB input, I use the digital audio optical output from the MacMini built into the headphone socket. I'm using a cheap optical cable and haven't spent time, I'm afraid, discovering whether a better one would offer much advantage. Do you have any reason to think that using Qobuz via Audirvana would offer any sonic advantage over what I'm doing?

 

I can't give a definitive answer as I haven't tried, so could only speculate which isn't very helpful. However from one angle, Audirvana is available on free trial, so would be easy to have a go and see what you think, still using the same optical out that you would from tne Qobuz app. At that stage you can decide which offers best playability, and compare sound quality in that mode.

That wouldn't tell you what Audiv. would be like optimised through a dedicated USB output and then converted to optical to feed the US, but you could consider trying that later. (For reference, as a renderer, I found the optimised Audivana through Gustard gave better sound quality than the renderer stage of an ND5XS, and without the Gustard but into a DAC with excellent RF rejection to I found to be indistinguishable from Melco N1A in a short comparison.)

Back in 2015 we thought Qobuz would be available in Denmark, there were news saying that this would happen. Well it never did, so my feelingis that Qobuz is only available in a few markets, fewer than tidal.

Claus

Thanks Paul, I've been thinking of getting a Mac Mini for some time, partly to free up the MacBook Pro from being tethered to my desk.  Screen Share sounds ideal.  I've downloaded the new Qobuz desktop and it is a big improvement. I was surprised to see that I'd purchased about 30 albums from Qobuz, but it gives me plenty to experiment with. It only seems to let me play my high res downloads at CD quality, but I guess you need a Sublime subscription for this?  I've not really investigated the Berlin Phil concert hall, so will give it a try.

@Innocent Bystander.  I do have Audirvana but have only used it via the optical out. A quick comparison with the Qobuz app via optical does show Audirvana to have a slight edge. I'm not sure why this should be, but will check the settings in both and experiment further.

Even at CD quality though, the Naim app/UPnP route is the clear winner for SQ on my system. But this only shows with a direct comparison, and the others are more than acceptable.

I agree that there's almost no chance of Qobuz being integrated into the older streamers. Particularly for classical, Qobuz offers much the best, so hopefully they'll be able to expand their market.

Chris